Don't like the adverts?  Click here to remove them

Court Fiasco

Yes Clive. Any car must be taxed and insured even if off the road, or otherwise it must be SORNed. It's caught a lot of people out. Now when I bought my current 80 it had been off road so long that it was before SORN was mandatory. So the DVLA hadn't seen it since 2003. In fact the log book was so old, I couldn't even register on line with the serial number format. They said 'Oh we wondered where that one was'. I don't think that they meant personally, but it must have been in a data base of missing presumed stolen or something.

Chris
 
I've been trying to find the law (or parts of law) covering continuous insurance enforcement, I eventually found it - the "Road Safety Act 2006" is what introduced the changes to the law, by modifying the road traffic act. The specific area is in section 144, which says "you're guilty of an offence if you're the registered keeper of a vehicle, and it's not insured" then goes on to say in 144B you're not guilty if you match up to any of the following conditions:

And section 7 a is about providing necessary documentation to prove your point.

I should say that the SORN document is taken as a recognised declaration that you're not using the car on the road, but your bills of lading etc should be equally valid, the key part is that section 7 is not specific about the particulars that must be supplied as proof. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be point that out to whoever's acting in my defense

Majic, that's exactly what I quoted to the court, sec 7 was precisely my argument. No amount of corroborating documentation was sufficient. Apparently writing to the DVLA to inform them is also not acceptable. One HAS to fill in the correct form, and apparently this is a SORN.

Now bear in mind one can actually do this "on-line" as I have recently learned, I am staggered at the stupidity and absurdity of the whole thing.
 
As mentioned before,
This is quite wrong, and UK / DVLA should fix this problem.
A lot of peeps take theor car out of UK, for longer than 6 months.
I did, I was in Norway for over a year.
Did I tell them?
Did I fluck.

Gra.
 
Olazz, sorry to hear of your problems. I think that the issues arose as you were trying to be honest and play by the rules, unfortunately when you do that you can end up creating a problem.

By temporarily exporting the vehicle out of the EU you put yourself into a very small percentage of people that actually do this, and no longer conform to the DVLA's pigeon hole definitions. As you know if the vehicle remains mot'd, taxed and insured then the DVLA don't care, your problems appear to have come about due to you being honest with your insurance company about the vehicles location. Unfortunately once you've informed the insurance company of this, they will refuse to insure the vehicle any further, as you no longer fit into any of their categories either! Your best option, if you wanted to keep the vehicle road legal in the UK would have been to 'forget' to notify the insurance company of the vehicles location.

As has been mentioned, and discussed at length on the HUBB, the best option is to SORN the vehicle and then you will fit into one of the DVLA's categories, they will be happy and you could keep the vehicle insured if you so wished.

It is sad and disappointing that the DVLA wouldn't open up a dialogue with you to sort this without going to court. It is also worrying that the court couldn't take a common sense approach to the matter, I suppose that they might have thought that the DVLA, being the 'experts' in their field, would have already tried to resolve this problem before resorting to court. Unfortunately you fell into the taxed but uninsured category and they didn't care why.

The SORN declaration form being the form to use to inform the DVLA of your problem is very strange and a new one on me, probably seems logical from a legal stand point! To the average car owner the SORN declaration is a notification of an intended action, not a way to communicate and resolve a problem.

With regard to insurance companies, they are quite happy to take your money as long as you fit their criteria. I wasn't surprised recently when an insurer contacted me to inform me that they intended to automatically renew my insurance for me, on a car that I sold a month ago. Now I hadn't told the insurance company as A) there was only a month left to run, and therefore no money would be gained by me cancelling the policy and B) the new buyer insured the vehicle with the same company. Now what I was interested to see was if the insurance company would twig that they were insuring the same vehicle twice and contact me to see what was going on, but no they didn't. They would quite happily take the money from me and the new owner to insure the same vehicle, I thought that their systems would be more intelligent than this.

I'm now waiting to receive the change of ownership confirmation letter from the DVLA, as I received their tax renewal letter last week for the sold vehicle. According to the small print they print them off six weeks in advance, so it would have been coming to me regardless. If I haven't received confirmation after four weeks I shall have to start phoning them, you can't email them (as far as I can see) and as Olazz has shown they don't read their mail!

Olazz, did you contact your carnet supplier (I'm guessing it was Paul Gowen at the RAC) for advise as to the best course of action? He must be very well versed with the best way to tackle the systems hurdles.

With regards to the DVLA I think that the best way is to SORN a vehicle that is out of the EU, you can still keep it insured if you 'forget' to inform the insurance company (it's not like you can claim on the policy), this will mean you have a current insurance document for your travels to prove that the vehicle is insured in the country of origin. When returning the vehicle to the UK you can re insure, re tax and then drive legally (as long as the mot is still valid, if not, insure it and book a nearby mot).

Olazz, thanks for posting your experience as it helps to advise others of the best way to handle this issue with the relevant official bodies.

Keep enjoying your African travels, that's the main thing.
 
Do you have to un SORN it before port of entry into the UK? As an ANPR camera is likely to pick you up and say 'Ello, 'ello. You may be showing insurance, which is good, Plod likes insurance. But no tax or MOT and declared off road?

It is tricky isn't it. Not so difficult if you have a trailer. Just has to be a way of not being picked up coming back in and having vehicle impounded.

C
 
Thats a good point Chris.

If the vehicle still has a current mot then you can insure it and tax it online before arrival, again you might not want to mention that the vehicle is currently out of the EU. If it doesn't have an mot then you can call and book one for the day of landing, then provided that you've insured the vehicle it is legal for you to drive to the mot station to make get the vehicle tested. You may get pulled, but as long as the you can prove the insurance and mot booking you'll be legal and let on your way (as far as I'm aware this is still the current process at the time of typing).
 
Don't like the adverts?  Click here to remove them
Olazz, did you contact your carnet supplier (I'm guessing it was Paul Gowen at the RAC) for advise as to the best course of action? He must be very well versed with the best way to tackle the systems hurdles.

Scott, the RAC can do little to influence the DVLA. This whole farse could have been avoided had just one person in the DVLA, or indeed the DVLA's prosecutor, made a decision based on the facts, rather than adhering rigidly to policy.

It was pretty apparent that this wasn't about right and wrong, just about procedural compliance.

I've paid the £50 and declared vehicle SORN.....until I return vehicle next year!
 
Scott, the RAC can do little to influence the DVLA.
Sorry, I didn't mean that the RAC could sort the issue out with the DVLA for you, what I meant was that they have a very good working knowledge and are well positioned to give you advise on the best way to deal with the problem.

I fully understand your frustration with the way that the DVLA have handled this.

Good luck with your future dealings with them upon re entry, until then happy travels!
 
I N C R E D I B I L !

Sorry, a bit of Romanian creeping in there.

Almost unbelievable... whatever next. The whole purpose of insurance is to protect other road users. If you're not on the road, how can you be a threat?

At one time the DVLA had no business with insurance. Compliance (or non-compliance) was a police matter. Issue of a tax disc was conditional on having current insurance, otherwise there were no other checks other than the police or traffic wardens.

I wonder who paid the court costs?
 
Back
Top