stange happenings in my drive train....

[roy90]

hello all, looking for your expert help again...
had the lc out for some mild offroading today and now im getting a strange intermittent clunk from underneath. It resembles been still in 4wd while im trying to turn left or right on the road, feels reluctant and wound up..... have gone in and out of 4wd ranges, diff lock back and forth and no different! now i was using the 4wd and the rear diff lock and yep got rightly stuck.... but never really gave it abuse, kinda was a case of drove into a wet ditch/gully and sunk and after a small amount of wheel spinning in gloupy sandy muck i gave up and was winched out. turned off the 4wd out onto the road, travelled 30mile and found it fine, no problems. then turning left into a mates yard i had a clonk and it seemed as if it was in 4wd with centre diff locked. tried the 4wd ranges again and made a clonk when reversing and then travelled cautiously home another 20 miles and it just feels strange in the front end, grabby when turning left or right.....
ive been researching here and reading the horror front diff saga's..... firstly could it be 4wd wind up(as when stuck i jacked up the front drivers wheel only to put waffle board under and then just scrapped that idea as i got winched out) surely the wheels would have revealed themselves on the gravel i drove on after??
what should my steps be to check it out? raging as its my dd and im back to work on saturday!
i had a quick look and all dry and looks ok underneath...
will drain the front diff oil tomorrow and look for foreign objects(all diff oils changed 3 months ago) after that where do i start? pull back c.v boots and check the joints? or do i need to drop the strut and pull the shaft out for a view of this?
fingers crossed its a simple thing but loud clunky noises are never good! grrr...
as always any advice is greatly appreciated!
p.s its a 1998 lwb 3.0 manual

 

[karl webster]

Hi Roy

If its a Cv you will get a clonk when on full lock all the time. I know the 90s have a front diff issue and transfer issue.

Does yours have a center diff. could be something as simple as one of the lockers has stuck in and thats binding it all up.

 

[BobMurphy]

Fingers crossed its a simple thing but loud clunky noises are never good! grrr...

You might be lucky.

Start by checking the simple things - Propshaft Universal Joints (UJs) and the tightness of the propshaft bolts.

Chock the front wheels.
put it in Neutral with the Transfer Lever in 'H'.
Handbrake off.
Jack one rear wheel off the ground and try to turn it.

It should turn, if it won't then your centre diff is still locked. That might just need a Transfer Box oil change and a warm-up to free-off.

Have a look at the suspension bushes - upper and lower wishbones and the upper & lower control arms at the rear (I know the sound is coming from the front, but check anyway).

After that it starts getting serious - CV joints and Differential problems.

Let us know how you get on.

Bob.

 

[roy90]

Cheers Karl and bob for replies, 3 months ago I completely changed every bushing underneath it for superpro so would doubt any have worn out but I will have a look! It definitely feels more than a bushing allowing some play, I have tried the 4wd with rear diff locked on wet concrete and it's working and when I disengage the rear lock and select H again it still feels wound up but def not as much as when the rear diff lock is engaged so that suggests the rear lock is working and has disengaged. Up front nothing has calasped, and all diff oils were done 3 months ago. I really think its a centre diff prob as when turning tightly its clunking and trying to spins rear wheel even tho I no the rear diff lock has disengaged.... Or is it a case that it can sometimes only half disengage? I will try jacking up the rear pass wheel and see if it turns freely. If it is a case that the centre diff hasn't disengaged, how do I manage to free it?

 

[roy90]

Ok so, rear drivers side wheel jacked up, front wheels chocked, handbrake off and in neutral with H selected and wheel won't turn forward but will spin freely back, trying to spin it forward and it seems to be locked to the front shaft coming out of transfer. Does this mean centre diff hasn't disengaged? Even tho it will spin freely backwards? And how do I free it? Il drop the oil out now and see if it makes any difference....

 

[roy90]

Did a bit turning of the wheel backwards and then... It started freely spinning forward, kept it up, backwards and forwards and then it threw in the stop again, it was making other noises intermittently nearly as if I could here the chain turning or a rough bearing from the transfer case, swapped over to the pass wheel and same thing, spun freely both ways then threw in a stop and slight noises, at this stage it's definitely a problem in the transfer case, if I can arrange a mode of transport for the next few days il have to drop this out and bring it to someone to open up! Anyone had one out before? Any tips as to do's and dont's?

 

[PETE BELL]

hi ROY I have a spare gearbox/transferbox if you think you need it let me know

 

[roy90]

Hey pete, I've sent you a pm.
Cheers

 

[BobMurphy]

That is starting to sound like a centre differential problem. If they are overloaded they can break apart, dropping bits into the outer 'anulus'. The centre diff is enclosed so bits can't get out and then the 'planet gears' jam - effectively locking the diff.

I have had three transfer boxes apart, one for me and two for Club Members. The centre diff can be repaired if its just the planet carrier and planet gears that are damaged but I think the Toyota price of the parts will be between £300 and £400.

If you want to see what goes on inside a Transfer Box - look here:

http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7927&highlight=transfer+box+works

However, it sounds as though Pete Bell has what you want.

If you want to get rid of your damaged one (assuming that is the cause of the problem), I'd be interested in getting it to re-build as a spare.

Good luck.

Bob.

 

[roy90]

Hey bob, I disconnected the front prop as I was adviced by a friend that it would stop it binding up and could drive it until I get sorted with a transfer box or at least a chance to get it out for a closer inspection but after a short drive(initially fine) I've now lost reverse and only getting forward intermittently, travels off in 1st from standstill but then looses drive, sometimes taking off in 2nd or even 3rd just to get it to move! It's parked up in sick bay now, will try get the transfer box off tomorrow eve or sun eve after work. Does it bolt Straight off from the back off the gearbox? I presume the rear crossmember has to come off to allow it down too? Thanks for the link to the transfer thread, will need sometime to sit down and read through it to try get a grasp of it! Fair play to you, hugely detailed!

 

[BobMurphy]

Hey Bob, I disconnected the front prop as I was adviced by a friend that it would stop it binding up and could drive it until I get sorted with a transfer box or at least a chance to get it out for a closer inspection but after a short drive(initially fine) I've now lost reverse and only getting forward intermittently, travels off in 1st from standstill but then looses drive, sometimes taking off in 2nd or even 3rd just to get it to move!

Roy,

If you remove the front propshaft you must have the Transfer Lever in "HL" otherwise, with the diff open, you will get no drive.

It sounds as though you are trying to drive it in "H", in which case you only get drive when the loose bits in the centre diff jam the works. Going into reverse may free-off the planet gears briefly = no drive.

If you keep driving it with the centre diff open you will eventually destroy the planet gears and have no drive at all. Going into "HL" will then give you drive to the rear (only).

Please let me know if I'm right (trying to analyse what's going on)


Bob.

 

[roy90]

hello bob,
Sorry for the delay, As per your post i was only getting intermittent drive in any of the gears, 1-5 in H, 1-5 in 4wd low, and no reverse. So I got to pull the transfer box off yesterday in a friends garage and we took the rear plate off to see if it was the chain that had broke but what we can see without splitting the box further is that there is a split in the planet carrier in the centre differential! We have'nt split it further as i am going to drop it to a transmission specialist for a price and see what they say. Have you fixed such a problem before and any idea if the planet carrier is a scary expensive part?
Its the part in the below picture of yours that the centre piece with the male cogs butts into. We can see a split in it.

 

[BobMurphy]

Hi,

I replaced a Planet Carrier for a Member who had suffered a break due to the truck being driven on dry roads with the centre diff locked.

The carrier had split and a planet gear spindle locking pin had dropped into the anulus - wrecking the outer planet gears.

I got the new Planet Carrier from Ian Rubie - back in the days when he was importing stuff from the United Arab Emirates. Unfortunately he no longer does this (Customs & Excise "had a word" about it).

The one I got from Ian was about £180, I suspect the Toyota full price will be nearer £300 but there is a Toyota Dealer who gives discount to club members, I have saved between 10% & 20% on parts from him:


http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/45097-Simon-Holton-Gen-Toyota-Parts


The transfer box is quite easy to work on but don't loose the tiny ball bearings that lock some of the shafts!

Also, clean the magnetic particle trap that is in behind the oil pump pick-up filter, it should look like this . . . .

But will probably come out like this . . . .

Let us know how you get on.

Bob.

 

[BobMurphy]

Roy,

I meant to say . . .

The Part Number you need is this:


41310B - (41310-60050) Gear Assembly, Centre Differential, Planetary


ToyoDIY has a guide price of Euro 347.64, hopefully you can improve on that via Simon.

Best of luck.

Bob.

 

[roy90]

ok sorry for the delay in updating this thread but the good news is im fixed and back in action! I took the transfer box off and by taking the rear casing off we could see a split in the planetary carrier....

so next thing was to drop it into a gearbox specialists to get a prognosis on how bad the damage was! He had it stripped down the next day and confirmed that the planetary carrier was mangled!

Hopped on the phone to Mr. T and he could have the new part in for me in 2 days at a cost of €259 +vat (got it for €250 after asking nicely for some discount!) so went ahead and ordered it as the rest of the box was in good shape.

Pic of the new part along side what was left off the original part!!

Its unusual for this to happen so im told, the only explanation i can think of is the centre diff never unlocked when i turned out of the quarry i was in. Lesson learnt to stop and reverse when i disengage the 4wd no matter what the lights on the dash say!!! Running as good as ever now!

Many thanks for the help and advice on this!!

 

[BobMurphy]

so next thing was to drop it into a gearbox specialists to get a prognosis on how bad the damage was! He had it stripped down the next day and confirmed that the planetary carrier was mangled!

Yup . . That sure is a mangled Planet Carrier


Glad to hear that you got it sorted.

Bob.