105 Series in the UK

[Tom Mc]

May have the opportunity to pick up a 105, right hand drive, in the UK later this year (details still sketchy)

Have googled a few facts and figures, seems to have the best of the 80 and 100 in one car - however, was wondering if anyone on this forum had a more informed view on this variant...

Am contemplating a serious overland trip in the next 18 months - currently have an 80 series petrol/LPG, which I will sell before starting the search for the 'donor' vehicle...so am wondering if this 105 is a better starting place for an overland conversion than say a 24V diesel 80, or a 4.2 VX ?

Would be interested in any views...

Thanks
Tom

 

[Andrew Prince]

There was a red petrol (LPG converted) 105 on Ebay a year or so back which sold for a great price (£5.5k IIRC - still kicking myself that I didn't buy it).
The 105 is a great vehicle but the engine options are not as good as the 80 or 100 unfortunately. AFAIK the 105 came out with the 4.5l petrol FZ-FE or the non-turbo 4.2l HZ diesel. The petrol is thirsty and the diesel under-powered.

If you're buying one, check that it has front and rear diff-locks - many of the Aussie imports do not, whereas most SA-spec 105s do. The 105s are pretty basic inside - cloth seats, winding windows etc at their most basic. The GX is manual in petrol and diesel and I believe the GXL (Aus spec) came with autos in the petrol variant.

For sure the 105 will be a great overlanding vehicle in terms of space and ruggedness - the best of the 80 and 100 series as you say. Spares if required should be easy to get pretty much everywhere as this has been the workhorse of the UN for the last decade or so before the 200 came along.

For me, the final choice would come down to price - if it was the same price as a good 80 24V (bearing in mind that a good HD-FT 80 is going to probably set you back anywhere between £6-10k), then I would go for the 105 but I wouldn't pay over that for one. At that price range you're also into 100 series territory, so another option to consider...

Hope my thoughts are helpful

Cheers,

 

[Graham]

Perhaps the 105 isn't such a great Land Cruiser.
I mean, I like the way Pauls (new to Paul) 100 series 4,2 diesel is starting to look.
He got that for a good price, aka stole it I think.
Now with the bigger tyres on, starting to look the muts.
I would prefer the comfort of the 100 series, like Pauls, to the ruggedness of an older 80 series.
Just my opinion, as there is a long time in the seat to consider.

Graham

 

[Charlie]

For an overland vehicle, I believe the 105 is a good choice. For sure it is not a super fast truck, but it’s a reliable truck. Just what you want in an overland vehicle.

 

[Tom Mc]

Thanks for the input - very useful, and certainly some food for thought...

Am no expert on cruisers (as my previous post highlights ), however I was considering a 100 series 4.2 (in fact I had one of these not so long ago but sold it after having to fix the automatic suspension) but the general opinion seems to be that for longer, overland trips, the 100series does not have the same suspension or drive train capabilities as a well prepped 80 (or 105) - am sure there is plenty of detail behind these comments - I dont have the technical knowledge right now to contribute much to this debate

Even if you swap out the self leveling/adjusting suspension from a 100series and replace it with OME or something similar - isn't it a road based 4x4 rather than a trail based 4x4 i.e aren't you compromised from the get-go ? (In fact Greg at Landcruisers Overland appears to be in the process of doing just this)

Apologies if this debate is raging elsewhere in the forums -( point me in the right direction and I'll go find it) - but if you were selecting a vehicle as the donor for a significant (long term) investment with a view to overlanding - would you start with a:

100 4.2
80 4.2 (adding an intercooler)
105 4.2


Thanks
Tom Mc

 

[Rob]

The only situation the SFA is better than IFS is in extreme offroad situations. Not something you should encounter on overland expeditions. As for front axle reliability i think they are about the same if they are rebuilt properly before you leave. Therefore you do not need a SFA for overloading.

Toyota eclectics are generally very good so i would have no problems taking a HDJ100 on a vehicle dependant trip.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[adrianr]

If you look at how Jon Wildsmith has set up his 100, I think you'll find that will go pretty much anywhere you could take a well set up 80 series, I i would expect road manners to be much nicer in the 100 series, and its bigger inside too.

 

[Andrew Prince]

Tom, a lot of the debate is also around the nature of your trip - if you're doing road-based stuff say across Russia, then on-road comfort is arguably more important than sheer toughness and extreme off-road ability.
If you're doing the African west coast route in the height of the rainy season, then winching and mud-plugging will feature large in your needs and ruggedness is more of an issue.

Any of those vehicles will happily do the job, we're really talking about a few percent difference at the edge of the performance envelope.

If you're going heavily laden and properly bad roads are going to be a major feature, then the robustness of SFA (so 80 or 105) would be preferred. Setting up heavy duty suspension is simpler and probably cheaper on these than for the 100. The 100 front suspension is potentially a little weaker structurally (not saying it's weak before the flamers open up just saying that the SFA set-up is a bit more robust) but can be reinforced. For sure the 100 is going to be more comfortable on high speed journeys.

If you're going into the back of beyond, the more basic engines and electrics of the 80/105 will be easier for your average bush mechanic to fix than the newer ones (100/200)

For many people, budget comes into it too. Until recently there was a decent gap between 80 and 100 series prices. Most people would rather take a £5k 80 through Africa with all the bumps and scrapes, than a £15-20k shiny 100 series. 80s are getting older and less common these days and good ones are comfortably fetching prices equal to or higher than some of the older 100s. Because of this, I would expect to see more 100s being used on overland trips than has been the case in the past. And we will get more feedback on their abilities good and bad.
You pays your money and takes your choice. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

In terms of drive train ability and reliability with the level of mods likely to be seen on an overlanding vehicle I don't think there's anything between them, there are pros and cons all round with quite a few components on a 100 having been upgraded to overcome weakness's in the 80. The 100 does have more complicated electrics so if that worries you stick with an 80, otherwise the 100 will pay you back with a much nicer drive and a lot more room.

 

[Tom Mc]

Thanks for the input - I feel myself being pulled towards a decent 4.2 100 series, I cant imagine myself going seriously off road any time soon - the appeal of over-landing for me is the freedom and sense of adventure - not the actual off-road challenges -so I'd probably steer clear of the more ambitious routes in any event..

So assuming you start with a 4.2 diesel, would the first step be to bin the Auto-suspension and replace it with a OME or similar setup ? (Jon - is there a post on here showing your 100 series build up ?)

Am assuming the remaining 'usual' upgrades for an 80series also apply to a 100series (sliders, LR tank, fridges etc etc - plenty of information on here to put that shopping list together

What I'm wondering is if there is anything specifically that the 100 needs that I might not have factored into my proposed upgrade on an 80 series ?

Of course I could keep the 80 for the rough stuff and buy a 100 for the nice stuff

Thanks
Tom Mc

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

The AHC is a bit of a problem waiting to happen really and swapping it out for conventional parts is straight forward and a few of us on here have done it now, Paul being the latest according to his thread but no pics to prove it yet There's quite a lot of choice in shock absorbers, I have Bilsteins sourced from Julian V, I know Julian (not V) has Fox that he sourced himself, Paul has just gone for Ironman and if you really have money to burn there are a couple of other high end options readily available from America now to consider.

I went the keep the 80 for the rough stuff, use the 100 for the nice stuff route to begin with, didn't work out really as I just wanted to drive the 100 all the time

 

[Teije]

Recently I became owner of a 2007 (final production year) HZJ 105 with 1HZ engine, replacing my KDJ 120 D-4D.
Reasons to change: reliability (no electronics), sturdiness (stronger chassis and body), more ground clearance, roomier.
It came factory equipped with diff locks front & rear, winch (nicely incorporated in the bumper), extra 50 l fuel tank.

It further came complete with poverty pack: no electric windows, no electric rear view mirrors, no central door locking, no air bags, no ABS. So there is not too much that can go wrong. Yes, it does have airco !!!

My only off bitumen experience so far is Iceland. The car is comfortable and fast on rough tracks; the standard suspension is just perfect. The ride on asphalt is also very good and remains quiet up to 110 km/h. The limited power (130 HP) is not a problem for me. Remember it is a truck, not a car. Fuel consuption however is quite dramatic and easily rises to 13 l/100km.

From other sources I know that this turboless engine has difficulty breathing at high altitude (more than 2500 m). Also, I am curious how it will perform on sand dunes. My next trip will hopefully go to direction Sahara, but the "Arab Spring" should first change to summer.

 

[dyladams]

Slightly off topic but.....

...... From other sources I know that this turboless engine has difficulty breathing at high altitude (more than 2500 m). Also, I am curious how it will perform on sand dunes. My next trip will hopefully go to direction Sahara, but the "Arab Spring" should first change to summer.

I have done the trip through the Namibian desert with a selection of landcruiser including:
75 series 4.5 manual.
80 series 4.2 td 24v manual
100 series 4.7 v8 Lexus auto
100 series 4.5 auto
100 series 4.2 TD auto

On the biggest dunes (300m +), only the petrols made it all the way to the top. The Lexus v8's on board computer could not comprehend why you would want to drive 90 mph on sand and thus would put the vehicle into what appeared as a limp mode. Although you would start the bottom of the dunes off at 90mph, by the time you got to the top, the cruisers were down to first gear with the revs dying off.

The diesels definitely did not manage on the dunes as well as the petrols, but with a decent run up and enough speed / momentum, the conquered most of the dune with the exception of a few where the chicken run was taken.

For the 6 days of driving, we covered 650km and used 180l of diesel vs 280l of petrol.

Like most off roading, your tires make a huge difference. BFG AT were ok, but the guys with MT managed for better. Those on Road tires battled!

 

[Dark Dude]

Tom

You must live very near to Neil at Medway Dualfuel. That being the case I think you should seriously reconsider the option of a 100 series 4.7 petrol with a LPG conversion because (IMHO) Neil does one of the best in the UK. That way when you do go off-road, you can concentrate on the surface conditions and the scenery instead of the fuel gauge.

The Other John

AKA: The Dark Dude

 

[Chris Coombs]

105 - if you want the security of almost no electrics, obviuously great in very remote areas, but the whole vehicle is pretty basic.

80 series has more electrics, more home comforts and more power from the Turbo engine

100 - bigger, better, more comfort, more power, but - more electrics and IFS, however as JonW said this can be strengthened.

Having driven and used all the above and numerous 70 series Cruisers, plus 40' and some LR's my choice and reasons would be:

100 series - comfort and manners
80 - for more remote/hardcore trips, like the real depths of the Sahara etc
105/75/78/79 series - for really hardcore trips, or the abilities of the 70's to carry huge loads

Certainly would not consider a petrol or overlanding

Chris

 

[Graham]

I have to agree with Chris above,

As rugged as the 70, the 105 and the 80 are, I am thinking the way forward is the 100 series VX diesel.

I borrowed a frieds 80 some months back when my brothers 120 (that he loaned me) was off the road, the "N" reg 80 was feeling rather agricultural and no where near as good as my brothers 120.

Then I used a 70 series shortie, , while I did an engine replacement for a friend in the family, I used it for about 3 weeks after the engine swap, the 70 was on standard coils all round, this was worse than the 80 series by a long way.
One of my old boss's had a 2003 diesel Amazon a few years ago, who he foolishly let me use from time to time. Trailer towing duties.
This recall was the armchair, vastly better than the 70 and the 80, infact, I shouldn't even compare them.
I would say it was better to drive than my brothers 2006, 120, it seemed to "ride the bumps and potholes" better than his 120.

I use my brothers 120 from time to time when I have the short returns to UK, however when I settle back in UK, the 100 Amazon, circa 2005, will be top of my list.
Either that or a new diesel 140, Mondeo

Graham

 

[Charlie]

I have to agree with Chris above,

As rugged as the 70, the 105 and the 80 are, I am thinking the way forward is the 100 series VX diesel.

I borrowed a frieds 80 some months back when my brothers 120 (that he loaned me) was off the road, the "N" reg 80 was feeling rather agricultural and no where near as good as my brothers 120.

Then I used a 70 series shortie, , while I did an engine replacement for a friend in the family, I used it for about 3 weeks after the engine swap, the 70 was on standard coils all round, this was worse than the 80 series by a long way.
One of my old boss's had a 2003 diesel Amazon a few years ago, who he foolishly let me use from time to time. Trailer towing duties.
This recall was the armchair, vastly better than the 70 and the 80, infact, I shouldn't even compare them.
I would say it was better to drive than my brothers 2006, 120, it seemed to "ride the bumps and potholes" better than his 120.

I use my brothers 120 from time to time when I have the short returns to UK, however when I settle back in UK, the 100 Amazon, circa 2005, will be top of my list.
Either that or a new diesel 140, Mondeo

Graham

So where is your current truck Graham?

 

[Tom Mc]

Consensus seems to be that a decent 100 series Diesel with the 'AHC and IFS 'mods' is the long term way to go for most overland trips...can't really see myself getting into the sort of terrain that would demand a 105.

For the moment as I 'get up to speed' 'll stick with my 80 series petrol/LPG - I've only just started getting some work done on the car, and everything I spend I am hoping to 'transfer' to a 100 series if possible...

(John, (the other one) - I had my petrol 80 series converted to LPG about 6 months ago - the guy that did the work was recommended to me by Greg at Landcruisers Overland - cant remember all his details off hand, but he did a multipoint system for me, doughnut fuel tank etc for about 1500 GBP - have to say it has made a big difference - before the conversion was getting about 120 miles for 60 quid of unleaded since the conversion I'm getting about double that on LPG (LPG about 80 p per liter at present but hoping the changes in Libya will see that drop back by 5p/7p before next summer )

Minor mods to my 80 series so far: 4 x new BFGs, CB and a 3inch suspension lift (Front and rear slinky springs,front and rear Ridepro Rox extended travel shocks , lower bump stops and anti-roll bar brackets etc.), extended diff breathers. (will try and post a pic or two when I get it back)

Was hoping to take the car to Wales this weekend on Onelife Adventure break, but rear springs delayed and so car up on stands right now :-(

Will add snorkel, new custom sliders, front bumper/winch, rear dual swing out bumper in the spring, decent audio/sat nav and then try to get out and about on a few trips to see how I get on..

Certainly longer term I wouldn't bother doing anything else to the 80 series, petrol/LPG outside of Europe would be no fun, so will most likely advertise it towards back end of 2012, either with all the mods in place, or stripped back to standard setup if that makes sense (I have the original springs/shocks/wheels and tyres)

BTW I had an X plate (2000) VX 4.2 about 3 years ago - used it exclusively on road for work and pleasure -was a fantastic ride BUT then I ran into AHC issues, Toyota wanted almost 4K to fix it (car had done 60K miles!!), ended up using Ian Rubie and Julian V to effect a repair (replaced spheres etc) and then decided it was too much bother and sold it...(bought a landrover and a 911 4S ) however reading this forum now, if I had known it's possible to strip the AHC out I may have decided that was a better option -

All the input much appreciated -

Tom Mc

 

[darren_in_oz]

well I have the 105 (although in Australia!!) 4.2 NA Diesel, didnt wont anything to fast the cops hide in bushes with radar guns here!!!!!!!!

The differences here are the 105 is live axle (basicully 80 with a 100 body on it) and the 100 has IFS suspension, Hard work and mega cost to lift it!!!

I come from a pajero full leather to a poverty pack 105.....love it