Air Con Leak

[frank rabbets]

My pressure keeps going down and Air Con stops. The pressure switch is OK. Are there an favorite places to find a leak? Has anyone had a leak behind the dashboard. Hope not.

The front Air Con rad needs replacing anyway. All fins are gone but no odvious leak. Where can I buy a good quality one apart from T ?

Cheers chaps
Frank

 

[Ecoman]

The O rings in the connections on top of the dryer and on the condenser can start to weep. See if you can pressure it up again and then go around the whole condenser, dryer and pipework with a soapy solution in a spray bottle. Set the nozzle so its more of a jet and then aim it at all the edges, crevices and connections. Guaranteed you will find a leak.

Depending on who filled the system last it there may have been a special dye added to the AC system. Get a blacklight (UV lamp) and shine it all around the pipework etc of the ac system and it should show up where there has been a leak.

 

[frank rabbets]

Cheers!
Thanks. Just about to do that without creating too many irrelevant bubbles in the process!! Do you think there may be the same "O" ring trouble inside the car ? I thought I would take all the bits apart and rebuild whilst with this problem but do not fancy inside the car.

I regassed myself 3 years ago with a DIY can. Then 1week ago. There is no dye. There is enough residual pressure in the system to test for leaks.

There is about 45 psi with the engine not running. Sometimes the AC pump cuts in and sometimes not so is this the margin pressure ? Also when the pump cuts in the air is hardly cold at all. Does all this add up to just a slow leak ?

Thanks for quick reply.

Frank

 

[Towpack]

I've had this problem twice and both times it was the condensor. I fitted a new one and had it regassed. After 14months the pressure gradually went down and turned out to be a very small leak on the seam between the fins and the side tanks. I went back to the supplying shop and moaned and they gave me 20% of another replacement (only 12 months warranty) and a free regas. Should also have fitted new O rings 'cos after 3 months the pressure had dropped again due to these leaking. New O rings and another regas and all is now fine.

Toyota do not make their own condensors. I got a OE Toyota fit item from a aircon specialist at around 2 thirds of the price.

 

[Ecoman]

Yes Frank it looks like your system has sprung a slow leak. If the leak was inside the car you would know about it as you would smell the gas. It has a metallic chemical smell to it and not pleasant.

IIRC if it is inside the car then its a replacment receiver as all the connections are in the engine bay and none in the cabin. You can buy condensers and dryers from Toyota but they are silly prices. I got a quote for my 80 series and it was £400 for a condenser and £60 for a dryer. I'm not sure about receivers as I never got a quote from them.

I ended up getting my stuff from Auto Aircon Parts for about £140 but it was pretty poor quality and i don't forsee it lasting much more than a few years. I will source better replacements when funds allow but for the time being I will just make do.

If your going to get the whole system regassed again then, before you get it done and while your fixing the leak, it may be worth stripping every joint and fitting new o-rings etc as the chances are if one has gone then the rest may soon follow.

 

[Towpack]

When I fitted my 2nd new condensor I sprayed the end tanks and about 10mm of the fins on each side with black engine laquer. It came painted black but the paint coverage was very thin where the fins join the tanks which is where it had corroded and leaked.

IMO your leak is more likely to be due to a corroded component or pipe in the system rather than a failed O ring as they don't usually give trouble until they're disturbed.

 

[frank rabbets]

Thanks for all the help. I notice with some relief that the connections are in deed all in the engine compartment. I cannot find a leak even after covering all pipes connectors etc with washing up solution. Pressure is now only 15 psi so my chances of finding a leak are fading. I have therefore come to the conclusion that I will strip it all apart and replace every o ring and fit a new condensor and drier and have it regassed. Part of the precedure is to test for a leak first and if they find a leak they will not charge.

Is it possible that the compressor is leaking? 130,000 miles 16 years old.

My intended question over parts quality you have kindly answered but can I assume that toyota air con parts are better than "internet" ones? In which case I will have to spend a lot more because I do not want a repeat performance.

Any further suggestions would be gratefully received.

Frank

 

[frank rabbets]

I'm delighted to report that my aircon is now 100% ; in fact I have just driven back from the regass in blazing hot sunshine with an icy grin on my face.

Motorclimate UK 0121 766 5006 !!! I went there after 2 recommendations, both from garages ! This is a first class and reasonably priced company. Ask for Steve or Bob. In fact one of the garages do their own aircon but lately had 3 cars they could not diagnose. MC cracked all three.

To recap I took all the joints apart up to the bulkhead and replaced all the o rings and also replaced the drier and condensor which had a corroded joint.Total parts cost £185 from Motorclimate. Their parts appear to be very substantial and fitted perfectly. Even the boxes they came in were extra heavy duty. I took it back for a regass today. They put UV die in and tested for leaks. Everything passed first time and only took 25 mins.

Frank

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Good result there then Frank

 

[SimonD]

Frank would you mind adding Motorclimate to recommend a buyer or seller http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=48&start=0 as they are a bugger to find when in forum posts?

 

[Ecoman]

Nice one. Glad its all sorted.

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Simon

Just added Motorclimate to the list.

Frank

 

[frank rabbets]

My aircon has packed up again! When I last used it there was a nasty smell coming out of the airvents. I'm guessing there is a leak inside the car. I've looked at the FWM and it looks like there are no joints inside the car so it must be a leaking evaporator. Does all this add up?
I've checked the engine bay and there are no leaks.

Thanks
Frank

 

[Chas]

My aircon has packed up again! When I last used it there was a nasty smell coming out of the airvents. I'm guessing there is a leak inside the car. I've looked at the FWM and it looks like there are no joints inside the car so it must be a leaking evaporator. Does all this add up?
I've checked the engine bay and there are no leaks.
Thanks Frank

Does it still blow cold and is the smell like 'old socks' it can be caused by bacteria build up inside, so I've been told, I had this and the aircon engineer used some sort of vaporiser inside the car with the aircon running to infiltrate the system.

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi

No it's lost its' gas so there is a leak somewhere. I know the problem you experienced and it isn't that but thanks for the input.

Frank

 

[DaveN]

The gas is pretty much odourless, and evaporator failures are rare. The usual areas are the condensor rotting out, the pipes from the condensor where they pass through the front panel and are wrapped in foam, and the pipe that goes across the bulkhead where it can touch the insulation and rot through.

If you have dye in the system, it can sometimes be seen at the evaporator drain (if it's the evap), or someone with a good sniffer can detect it there also. You can also take out the blower and get a look at some of the evap, and any leak will usually leave behind some dye or oil that will have all muck stuck to it.

The problem is the trucks are so old now that often one problem just follows another as various bits give out or rot through.

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Dave

Thanks for your thoughts. I've stripped out all the pipes up to the bulkhead evaporator and replaced all the o rings. I replaced the condenser and drier with new ones. I had the system regassed and it lasted 3 weeks and now the pressure is low and will not cut the pump in. I've gone around all the joints and pipes with fairy liquid several times and cannot find a leak. Having said that there was a very small drop of green oil on top of the drier but this was from day one and did not get any worse. I have tested this area with fairy liquid and cannot find a leak. There is still some pressure so I would have thought I could have found the leak. Can a specialist test for a leak inside the evaporator box where a UV light cannot be used?
Any more thoughts please.

Frank

 

[DaveN]

Sometimes the pipes have tiny pin pricks in them, and often corrosion gets in the O ring joints, so even a new O ring doesn't fix it. There's always the compressor front seal and casing joints. I had to reseal my compressor a few years ago where corrosion got under the seals joining the casings. You can see a little of the evap, but don't forget that sometimes no oil (and hence dye) leaks out with the gas. If you've got dry compressed air you can always pump the system up and use the fairy mix to check for bubbles.

Try again with the bubble spray, but check every inch - pipes, couplings, fittings, charge ports, sightglass on the dryer, compressor casing, pressure switch etc.

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Dave

This is turning into bit of a nightmare. I took the evaporator housing out and opened it up. The evaporator looked completely dry and in good condition. The pipes were very slightly dusty with corrosion but mostly as new. There was absolutely no sign of any oil or dirt anywhere except for some loose dust in the bottom. Could it be as you say that gas could get out but not oil and there may still be a leak here?

I am begining to suspect that 4 of the o rings on the high pressure side may be the cause. The wall thickness of these were thinner than the patterns I took in to the specialist but they said they would be OK. There was green oil on these joints which begs the question "can oil get out with no gas ?"

Only the condenser and drier had corroded joints and these were replaced.

Your final thoughts would be appreciated before I do more work.

Thanks
Frank

 

[frank rabbets]

P.S. If I use air what Max psi please?

Frank