axle (again) chat

G

Guest

Guest
Anthony
Well, I'm getting rather lost in all this - I think its time to take a chill out - to be honest I have absolutely no idea whether the axle is from a later model - I personally don't think it is, the axle is as OE for the year make and model of toyo. I'm sticking with this and refusing to get into a lather about this, so there!
Renate

>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 08:22pm >>>
st1:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }Renate Thank you for the detailed geological explanation it was very enlightening. There are tyres available for 17 inch rims but very limited over here I can see no advantages in that size. I would stick with the 15 that you have or go to 16 there is a huge range available for both 15 and 16. I still can not se why fitting a larger diameter wheel would necessitate a caliper change. If a more recent i.e. post 1993 80 went down from 16 to 15 then some of the caliper would have to be machined away as there would be contact between the rim and the caliper. It is the over all diameter of the tyre that improves traction or clearance, not the wheel size. You state that there is a wear mark on the rims were the calipers may have rubbed at some time and that the calipers had to be made especially for it, this suggests to me that you may have an axle possibly from a later vehicle and not one from a 1991 vintage.Anthony Graham1994HDJ80 1HD * TWest WalesUK
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 19:55
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] 2 x queries
Anthony
My ossie friends have steel wheels and usually double-door opening as opposed to the hatchback kind of thing that mine has. I've seen larger tyres than 17" on their beasts but I think the market for 17" in the UK is not huge, its a more specialist area for 4x4'ers. There is still 75s in general use but quite a high percentage of 80s, they're usually white but not exclusively, and yes they travel very fast over sandy and rocky terrain as I do. I guess the rocks are dangerous whereever you go in Australia or North Africa, past experience requires careful manoevering around the rocks in the Sahara. The rock is sandstone mostly and has different erosional properties. We would call the Australian sandstones Devonian (the red sandstone).
As far as North Africa is concerned there is soft sandstones that erode quite quickly, fine grains are like dust. Because of their adhesive properties (a bit of grease or water and you're scuppered!) this stuff is a pain, its called "fesh-fesh". Under this there is extremely hard fine-grained sandstone; this is another of the more problematical sands in North Africa - the soft light stuff hangs around just above the surface, the harder grains are underneath this. Under this there are volcanic lava plugs and plutonic granitic extrusions. The other rock consists volcanic dykes and intrusions which can be extremely dangerous indeed - put it this way if you are unfortunate to catch some of this stuff jutting out (that has become patinated, so almost black), which is extremely sharp and it seems nearly as hard as diamond, it can literally sheer through your tyre (shredding it) and the wheel - it slices straight through and sheers bolts completely and cleanly off, so its very dangerous stuff and sometimes you see it when its too late and the damage is done.

The calipers on mine are suitable for 15 and 16" wheels, 17" and they would need changing. The ones that I have on now had to be manufactured for l'Beast and then modified in the end, because the ones on there already were for different vehicles. I don't know why the farmer chose the old ones but the wear patterns on the wheels suggested that at least three different kinds of calipers had at one time been fitted, and probably were'nt really for an 80 after all. Calipers don't wear or score the wheels, but there has been some damage in the past.

I haven't really got around to thinking of makes of the steel wheels because I'm still undecided about the best way forward, bearing in mind that I now have financial constraints with regards to l'Beast
Regards
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 06:42pm >>>
Renate,I acknowledge your expertise in desert environments and thank you for you explanation concerning steel wheels. I can see your point regarding knocking them back into shape after minor damage. Do many travelers in the desert bend there rims and just curious what do the Australians use as they tend to travel fast over long distances over desert and rocky terrain?You suggest that going up to 17 inch would mean a change to your calipers why is that? What benefits are there in going up to 17 inches surely tyre availability can not be one of them? If it is for cosmetic reasons then fair enough. What make of rims were you considering? I know that there is an original equipment steel rim listed but the width I think is only 7 inches, which limits tyre choice. The reason why I suggested alloys from a later 80 is that there is an increase in width to 8 inches allowing fitment of larger tyres.Anthony Graham1994HDJ80 1HD * TWest WalesUK
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 12:22
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] 2 x queries
John
One of my last emails said that I already had two sets of locking wheel nuts - it might be an idea getting a couple more, but I don't know whether it is worth it for 15" tyres & wheels - if I had 16" maybe, because I'd have new steel wheels to match.
Its as though the 15" are no good, they are very good and are the OE for the vehicle registered in that year (1991).
I could get away with 16" with the same new calipers I had replaced when the last ones seized, but if I were to go up to 17" (which is what I would like) I'd have to buy new calipers too, or risk the expense of having the new ones modified or changed in some way.
I have mixed feelings about having a new set of wheels and tyres and this is why I'm still hesitant - because of the lift on l'beast when I had new heavy duty shocks and coils fitted the 15" look rather small....this is the only main reason why I'm thinking of buying new tyres & wheels but I have to think of where I'll be taking l'beast later this year and in 2006, and I sometimes think that it probably isn't worth the expense of having new wheels and tyres - any ideas from any other list members?
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 12:13pm >>>
Hi Renate
If you are worried about people nicking your wheels if you get some nice
ones why not get a nut lock for each wheel which will prevent this and keep
the key on your ignition key so so dont find your self without it when you
need it.
John
92HDJ 80 1HD-T Auto Ireland
> Renate Haupt wrote:
>
>> And another query, what is the likelihood of someone nicking my tyres and
>> wheels (how long is a piece of string...), not so much for new 15" but
>> for new steel wheels and tyres?
>> Renate
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Renate
Up to you I am in no lather I just do not understand some of your reasoning
and as it is in print and you asked for comments then that is what I have
done, I realy see no need for caliper changes when going up in wheel
diameter.
Anthony Graham
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 20:28
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] axle (again) chat
Anthony
Well, I'm getting rather lost in all this - I think its time to take a chill
out - to be honest I have absolutely no idea whether the axle is from a
later model - I personally don't think it is, the axle is as OE for the year
make and model of toyo. I'm sticking with this and refusing to get into a
lather about this, so there!
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 08:22pm >>>
Renate
Thank you for the detailed geological explanation it was very enlightening.
There are tyres available for 17 inch rims but very limited over here I can
see no advantages in that size. I would stick with the 15 that you have or
go to 16 there is a huge range available for both 15 and 16. I still can
not se why fitting a larger diameter wheel would necessitate a caliper
change. If a more recent i.e. post 1993 80 went down from 16 to 15 then
some of the caliper would have to be machined away as there would be contact
between the rim and the caliper. It is the over all diameter of the tyre
that improves traction or clearance, not the wheel size. You state that
there is a wear mark on the rims were the calipers may have rubbed at some
time and that the calipers had to be made especially for it, this suggests
to me that you may have an axle possibly from a later vehicle and not one
from a 1991 vintage.
Anthony Graham
1994HDJ80 1HD - T
West Wales
UK
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 19:55
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] 2 x queries
Anthony
My ossie friends have steel wheels and usually double-door opening as
opposed to the hatchback kind of thing that mine has. I've seen larger
tyres than 17" on their beasts but I think the market for 17" in the UK is
not huge, its a more specialist area for 4x4'ers. There is still 75s in
general use but quite a high percentage of 80s, they're usually white but
not exclusively, and yes they travel very fast over sandy and rocky terrain
as I do. I guess the rocks are dangerous whereever you go in Australia or
North Africa, past experience requires careful manoevering around the rocks
in the Sahara. The rock is sandstone mostly and has different erosional
properties. We would call the Australian sandstones Devonian (the red
sandstone).
As far as North Africa is concerned there is soft sandstones that erode
quite quickly, fine grains are like dust. Because of their adhesive
properties (a bit of grease or water and you're scuppered!) this stuff is a
pain, its called "fesh-fesh". Under this there is extremely hard
fine-grained sandstone; this is another of the more problematical sands in
North Africa - the soft light stuff hangs around just above the surface, the
harder grains are underneath this. Under this there are volcanic lava plugs
and plutonic granitic extrusions. The other rock consists volcanic dykes
and intrusions which can be extremely dangerous indeed - put it this way if
you are unfortunate to catch some of this stuff jutting out (that has become
patinated, so almost black), which is extremely sharp and it seems nearly as
hard as diamond, it can literally sheer through your tyre (shredding it) and
the wheel - it slices straight through and sheers bolts completely and
cleanly off, so its very dangerous stuff and sometimes you see it when its
too late and the damage is done.
The calipers on mine are suitable for 15 and 16" wheels, 17" and they would
need changing. The ones that I have on now had to be manufactured for
l'Beast and then modified in the end, because the ones on there already were
for different vehicles. I don't know why the farmer chose the old ones but
the wear patterns on the wheels suggested that at least three different
kinds of calipers had at one time been fitted, and probably were'nt really
for an 80 after all. Calipers don't wear or score the wheels, but there has
been some damage in the past.
I haven't really got around to thinking of makes of the steel wheels because
I'm still undecided about the best way forward, bearing in mind that I now
have financial constraints with regards to l'Beast
Regards
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 06:42pm >>>
Renate,
I acknowledge your expertise in desert environments and thank you for you
explanation concerning steel wheels. I can see your point regarding
knocking them back into shape after minor damage. Do many travelers in the
desert bend there rims and just curious what do the Australians use as they
tend to travel fast over long distances over desert and rocky terrain?
You suggest that going up to 17 inch would mean a change to your calipers
why is that? What benefits are there in going up to 17 inches surely tyre
availability can not be one of them? If it is for cosmetic reasons then
fair enough. What make of rims were you considering? I know that there is
an original equipment steel rim listed but the width I think is only 7
inches, which limits tyre choice. The reason why I suggested alloys from a
later 80 is that there is an increase in width to 8 inches allowing fitment
of larger tyres.
Anthony Graham
1994HDJ80 1HD - T
West Wales
UK
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 12:22
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] 2 x queries
John
One of my last emails said that I already had two sets of locking wheel nuts
- it might be an idea getting a couple more, but I don't know whether it is
worth it for 15" tyres & wheels - if I had 16" maybe, because I'd have new
steel wheels to match.
Its as though the 15" are no good, they are very good and are the OE for the
vehicle registered in that year (1991).
I could get away with 16" with the same new calipers I had replaced when the
last ones seized, but if I were to go up to 17" (which is what I would like)
I'd have to buy new calipers too, or risk the expense of having the new ones
modified or changed in some way.
I have mixed feelings about having a new set of wheels and tyres and this is
why I'm still hesitant - because of the lift on l'beast when I had new heavy
duty shocks and coils fitted the 15" look rather small....this is the only
main reason why I'm thinking of buying new tyres & wheels but I have to
think of where I'll be taking l'beast later this year and in 2006, and I
sometimes think that it probably isn't worth the expense of having new
wheels and tyres - any ideas from any other list members?
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 12:13pm >>>
Hi Renate
If you are worried about people nicking your wheels if you get some nice
ones why not get a nut lock for each wheel which will prevent this and keep
the key on your ignition key so so dont find your self without it when you
need it.
John
92HDJ 80 1HD-T Auto Ireland
> Renate Haupt wrote:
>
>> And another query, what is the likelihood of someone nicking my tyres and
>> wheels (how long is a piece of string...), not so much for new 15" but
>> for new steel wheels and tyres?
>> Renate
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Anthony
Chill man!
Other list members:
At the end of the day I have to go by what the garage said, even though it may be a bit of a lie, he said that if I went to 17" then I'd have to have new calipers - of course, I don't know otherwise, and I guess he just wants to make more money from me.
To be honest I don't really understand his (the garage's) reasoning so I can't talk from personal experience. All I know is that he was adamant that if I went to large wheels I'd have to have the calipers replaced.
Of course I don't know otherwise, and perhaps you are indeed right - I didn't think that I would have to have new calipers.
I'm in the awkward position of not really knowing how these things pan together. So it might be a good opportunity to have some comments from others on the list - I will go by what you all say. So please fire away, all! since you are all better-in-the-know than me methinks.
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 08:32pm >>>
st1:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }RenateUp to you I am in no lather I just do not understand some of your reasoning and as it is in print and you asked for comments then that is what I have done, I realy see no need for caliper changes when going up in wheel diameter.Anthony Graham
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 20:28
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] axle (again) chat
Anthony
Well, I'm getting rather lost in all this - I think its time to take a chill out - to be honest I have absolutely no idea whether the axle is from a later model - I personally don't think it is, the axle is as OE for the year make and model of toyo. I'm sticking with this and refusing to get into a lather about this, so there!
Renate

>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 08:22pm >>>
Renate Thank you for the detailed geological explanation it was very enlightening. There are tyres available for 17 inch rims but very limited over here I can see no advantages in that size. I would stick with the 15 that you have or go to 16 there is a huge range available for both 15 and 16. I still can not se why fitting a larger diameter wheel would necessitate a caliper change. If a more recent i.e. post 1993 80 went down from 16 to 15 then some of the caliper would have to be machined away as there would be contact between the rim and the caliper. It is the over all diameter of the tyre that improves traction or clearance, not the wheel size. You state that there is a wear mark on the rims were the calipers may have rubbed at some time and that the calipers had to be made especially for it, this suggests to me that you may have an axle possibly from a later vehicle and not one from a 1991 vintage.Anthony Graham1994HDJ80 1HD * TWest WalesUK
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 19:55
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] 2 x queries
Anthony
My ossie friends have steel wheels and usually double-door opening as opposed to the hatchback kind of thing that mine has. I've seen larger tyres than 17" on their beasts but I think the market for 17" in the UK is not huge, its a more specialist area for 4x4'ers. There is still 75s in general use but quite a high percentage of 80s, they're usually white but not exclusively, and yes they travel very fast over sandy and rocky terrain as I do. I guess the rocks are dangerous whereever you go in Australia or North Africa, past experience requires careful manoevering around the rocks in the Sahara. The rock is sandstone mostly and has different erosional properties. We would call the Australian sandstones Devonian (the red sandstone).
As far as North Africa is concerned there is soft sandstones that erode quite quickly, fine grains are like dust. Because of their adhesive properties (a bit of grease or water and you're scuppered!) this stuff is a pain, its called "fesh-fesh". Under this there is extremely hard fine-grained sandstone; this is another of the more problematical sands in North Africa - the soft light stuff hangs around just above the surface, the harder grains are underneath this. Under this there are volcanic lava plugs and plutonic granitic extrusions. The other rock consists volcanic dykes and intrusions which can be extremely dangerous indeed - put it this way if you are unfortunate to catch some of this stuff jutting out (that has become patinated, so almost black), which is extremely sharp and it seems nearly as hard as diamond, it can literally sheer through your tyre (shredding it) and the wheel - it slices straight through and sheers bolts completely and cleanly off, so its very dangerous stuff and sometimes you see it when its too late and the damage is done.

The calipers on mine are suitable for 15 and 16" wheels, 17" and they would need changing. The ones that I have on now had to be manufactured for l'Beast and then modified in the end, because the ones on there already were for different vehicles. I don't know why the farmer chose the old ones but the wear patterns on the wheels suggested that at least three different kinds of calipers had at one time been fitted, and probably were'nt really for an 80 after all. Calipers don't wear or score the wheels, but there has been some damage in the past.

I haven't really got around to thinking of makes of the steel wheels because I'm still undecided about the best way forward, bearing in mind that I now have financial constraints with regards to l'Beast
Regards
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 06:42pm >>>
Renate,I acknowledge your expertise in desert environments and thank you for you explanation concerning steel wheels. I can see your point regarding knocking them back into shape after minor damage. Do many travelers in the desert bend there rims and just curious what do the Australians use as they tend to travel fast over long distances over desert and rocky terrain?You suggest that going up to 17 inch would mean a change to your calipers why is that? What benefits are there in going up to 17 inches surely tyre availability can not be one of them? If it is for cosmetic reasons then fair enough. What make of rims were you considering? I know that there is an original equipment steel rim listed but the width I think is only 7 inches, which limits tyre choice. The reason why I suggested alloys from a later 80 is that there is an increase in width to 8 inches allowing fitment of larger tyres.Anthony Graham1994HDJ80 1HD * TWest WalesUK
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On Behalf Of Renate Haupt
Sent: 11 January 2005 12:22
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] 2 x queries
John
One of my last emails said that I already had two sets of locking wheel nuts - it might be an idea getting a couple more, but I don't know whether it is worth it for 15" tyres & wheels - if I had 16" maybe, because I'd have new steel wheels to match.
Its as though the 15" are no good, they are very good and are the OE for the vehicle registered in that year (1991).
I could get away with 16" with the same new calipers I had replaced when the last ones seized, but if I were to go up to 17" (which is what I would like) I'd have to buy new calipers too, or risk the expense of having the new ones modified or changed in some way.
I have mixed feelings about having a new set of wheels and tyres and this is why I'm still hesitant - because of the lift on l'beast when I had new heavy duty shocks and coils fitted the 15" look rather small....this is the only main reason why I'm thinking of buying new tyres & wheels but I have to think of where I'll be taking l'beast later this year and in 2006, and I sometimes think that it probably isn't worth the expense of having new wheels and tyres - any ideas from any other list members?
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 01/11/05 12:13pm >>>
Hi Renate
If you are worried about people nicking your wheels if you get some nice
ones why not get a nut lock for each wheel which will prevent this and keep
the key on your ignition key so so dont find your self without it when you
need it.
John
92HDJ 80 1HD-T Auto Ireland
> Renate Haupt wrote:
>
>> And another query, what is the likelihood of someone nicking my tyres and
>> wheels (how long is a piece of string...), not so much for new 15" but
>> for new steel wheels and tyres?
>> Renate
>
>
 
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