Beware travelling in Spain!

[clivehorridge]

I'm similarly embarrassed by the behavior here in the mountains. We can't even blame the "foreigners" the problem is 100% home-grown.

It varies between simple littering, which is unsightly and environmentally undesirable at the least, to tied plastic bags tucked neatly into tree roots or placed under rocks.

WTF, folks go to the mountains for the natural beauty of the place, then sh!t on it as they leave. It's worse than thoughtless, it smacks of some kind of perverted sabotage.

Totally beyond any form of comprehension.

Putting fines up might normally do the trick, but here the local law enforcement is a shambles, not only a lack of boots on the ground, but the whole legal system needs a shunt up the ass. Enforcing the rules (and the legislation is in place) is a legal and judicial nightmare.

People are becoming more aware, but there's an awful long way to go. So to anyone intending to come here, the scenery is beautiful, don't be put off, but just be prepared for some surprises.

Every time we go out, we have a few bin liners with us, mostly for the deamon plastic, paper will decompose, ugly though it is in the meantime, but a forest full of plastic is, for the next 200 years, a tip.

Plastic is a curse, and the use of non-degradable plastics by distributors should be banned outright IMO, worldwide.

For the sake of 1 euro cent per item packaged, shorter shelf-life plastics could be used, cellulose for example, decomposes in less than 5 years, that would be better than some polymer compositions which survive in excess of 500 years. This would be a simple piece of legislation, but no, no action at all from the law makers.

And what's wrong with good old-fashioned common sense, take your fcuking rubbish home with you, FFS.

Rant over, for now.

 

[Dave2000]

When doing the reccy with Rodger and Corinne last weekend we found the ideal place to stop, alas it seems others thought the same and left their approval by leaving litter everywhere denoting it 'was' the perfect place.

regards

Dave

 

[mettisse]

People do have strange traits eh? To find a lovely spot then leave the rubbish, I wonder who they think will clear up? The only places in Southern Europe I have visited on a freestyle basis that wasn't contaminated with any type of rubbish was Croatia, before the Yugoslav " war" in 1989, outstandingly beautiful countryside, no sign of any " tipping" etc. But that all went Pete Tong didn't it eh? Ain't been back since, unlikely to either, (other fish to fry)
I love France and Spain and there are some magnificent spots, but is it the locals or guests spoiling them? I don't know, whoever it is, they are selfish so and so s
The other place is Corsica, but I've not been there " in" season, only out of season, absolutely beautiful, and a great place to go froading, great spots to stop for a brew or a barbecue everywhere, the length and breadth of the island.
Best regards to all

 

[frank rabbets]

When my daughter was 4 yo we did a European trip in the Audi coupe. We visited Switzerland and marveled at the fact there was NO litter. We picnicked on a pier leading out over Lake Geneva with our feet in the water. My daughter accidentally dropped paper cup in the water and before I could get it the wind blew it slowly away in a straight line. Everyone on the shore could see where it had come from lol. not that it was funny.

 

[Bert]

Seeing as everyone is currently talking rubbish, thought I'd throw my bag into the mix.

The same as the rest of you, I cannot for the life of me understand why some folk think it is perfectly acceptable to visit a place, any place, enjoy it, and then sod off leaving all their crap behind. It is one of those things that makes my blood boil. I'm a keen 'rough' camper and like to sleep out in the woods in my hammock with friends. Share a fire, drink a beer or two, eat some food. when we leave, everything we took in comes out. Everything. Sometimes when we go into the woods, we'll find the remains of parties, bottles, tins, collapsed tents occasionally, all sorts of shit that we then take responsibility for and remove when we leave so as not to spoil the place. It's ridiculous what some people leave behind.

Poo bags. Bloody dog walkers with poo bags! If you're out walking in the woods with your dog and it does a Richard, if you have no intention of carrying said Richard out in a plastic bag, then don't bother bagging it up in the first place. The shit will degrade faster on the soil and leaves than the bag of shit that you flung into a tree to hang there forever more. Come on, what's wrong with you stupid, stupid people!?
I think some MP recently has tried to advocate dog owners flicking their dog crap off the path and into the bushes instead of flinging poo bags up into the trees. Personally I think, bag it, take it out with you. It's also a big problem with people sticking their poo bags in our hedge, not to mention beer tins and bottles too. I refer to these as Hedge Gifts, though none of them are the type of gift I want.

I get completely confused by the hippy type morons who travel the world, getting in touch with their spiritual side, going places that us 9 to 5's can only dream of, only to leave their crap behind too! So you've been thoughtful and left your trash neatly wrapped in a green or black bag, but the point is, you've left your shit behind! Take it away!!!!!

Phew, it's like therapy with friends on this forum! I feel much better now

 

[frank rabbets]

It starts at school with hands of teachers being tied. I was taught discipline and we used to get caned for dropping a pencil. Simple, if you don't like the cane don't drop the pencil. The spineless authorities should put the penalties up until the problem stops.

As for dog poo in bags there's tons round here. The owners park their cars outside my house and carry the bags back as far as the car and leave it there. The road is a dead end here with formerly beautiful walks. Also dogs should be kept on a lead as some little kids get their personalities permanently damaged when frightened by a dog. I like dogs, like I like the moon, but everything should be proper.

 

[goodoldboy]

It starts at school with hands of teachers being tied. I was taught discipline and we used to get caned for dropping a pencil. Simple, if you don't like the cane don't drop the pencil. The spineless authorities should put the penalties up until the problem stops.

You weren't "taught" discipline Frank you were beaten into submission.Why anyone thinks this is a good idea is beyond me.How can we say that violence is wrong & advocate beating kids? Obviously our actions should have consequences but we live in a society that promotes individual satisfaction over & above solidarity with our communities.
A smack on the arse for young kids is one thing but a grown man or woman beating a kid with a stick is abuse.I too was caned for breaking ridiculous rules & perhaps thats why I have no respect for unjustified authority.
Litter is a problem & it annoys me as well but if anyone should be beaten with a stick its those who dump toxic waste for profit & get off scott free... http://www.heraldo.es/noticias/arag...lindano_extiende_piedratajada_312088_300.html
the above story refers to an abandoned chemical factory where decades of dumping wast has resulted in contamination of drinking water with Lindane. the bill for the cleanup will be 10s of millions

 

[frank rabbets]

Well it worked for me unless I was just born tidy. You can't keep society in one piece by being "nice".

 

[clivehorridge]

Seeing as everyone is currently talking rubbish, thought I'd throw my bag into the mix.

The same as the rest of you, I cannot for the life of me understand why some folk think it is perfectly acceptable to visit a place, any place, enjoy it, and then sod off leaving all their crap behind. It is one of those things that makes my blood boil. I'm a keen 'rough' camper and like to sleep out in the woods in my hammock with friends. Share a fire, drink a beer or two, eat some food. when we leave, everything we took in comes out. Everything. Sometimes when we go into the woods, we'll find the remains of parties, bottles, tins, collapsed tents occasionally, all sorts of shit that we then take responsibility for and remove when we leave so as not to spoil the place. It's ridiculous what some people leave behind.

Poo bags. Bloody dog walkers with poo bags! If you're out walking in the woods with your dog and it does a Richard, if you have no intention of carrying said Richard out in a plastic bag, then don't bother bagging it up in the first place. The shit will degrade faster on the soil and leaves than the bag of shit that you flung into a tree to hang there forever more. Come on, what's wrong with you stupid, stupid people!?
I think some MP recently has tried to advocate dog owners flicking their dog crap off the path and into the bushes instead of flinging poo bags up into the trees. Personally I think, bag it, take it out with you. It's also a big problem with people sticking their poo bags in our hedge, not to mention beer tins and bottles too. I refer to these as Hedge Gifts, though none of them are the type of gift I want.

I get completely confused by the hippy type morons who travel the world, getting in touch with their spiritual side, going places that us 9 to 5's can only dream of, only to leave their crap behind too! So you've been thoughtful and left your trash neatly wrapped in a green or black bag, but the point is, you've left your shit behind! Take it away!!!!!

Phew, it's like therapy with friends on this forum! I feel much better now

Bravo Simon, well said, I felt the same when I came to the end of my post #101 above

 

[frank rabbets]

Discipline must be imposed as other methods don't seem to work. There are a lot less people on the phone whilst driving now the penalties have gone up. They hav'nt stopped doing it because they have a conscience about killing innocent people.

 

[Dave2000]

Phew, that post struck a nerve!

Re who is to blame is difficult to say, awhile back I watched a young (Spanish) women sitting in a convertible BMW, she opened up a sandwich and rolled up the silver foil and threw it outside the car. I walked over and picked it up and handed it back to her, pointed to the 'basuras' (bin), she apologised and put the foil in the car. A few minutes later her friend got in, and as he started the car and pulled away she looked at me and threw the rubbish back out into the road and off they went. Ten years ago I would have gone after them and given her a boll..........well I would have told her off!

Many years ago I upset four lads in a BMW after they emptied their Mcdonalds wrappers in a B & Q car park in front of my young daughter, I won't say what I did as it could be construed as a bit OTT, but I doubt they ever did it again.

One thing that is difficult to convey to people here in Spain, is that their country is absolutely beautiful, but they take it for granted, I guess this is true elsewhere in the world.



regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

I am also from the era where the teachers considered breaking ALL your finger nails with a cane was the right way to punish someone. How many times did anyone as a child touch a hot iron or cooker? The answer is they rarely do it twice, this is known as effective learning, so IMO Frank has a point.

When I started smoking there were no adverts about cancer all over the TV, we were told it was not good for you and yet I/we still smoked. Today the evidence is there, and yet people still smoke knowing the risks, what if it was fact, that in every pack of 20 was at least one cigarette that would cause massive abdominal pain that would last for at least 24 hours along with vomiting and diarrhoea, would you risk it?

regards

Dave

 

[clivehorridge]

I think Frank has a point, but I also agree with GOB's aversion to capital punishment.

I had a very strict upbringing as a kid, by my father, yet only once did I get the back of my legs slapped by him, and I deserved it.

I do think you can discipline kids without violent acts, we've never had to lift a finger to my 8 yr old, and she's quite well behaved.

Her mum has a look that installs the fear of God into her, which is enough on its own. Maybe we're lucky and she's naturally well behaved, but there are times when she crosses the line and we deal with punishment in other ways.

Kids in school in my day weren't so lucky as me, they'd go home to a belting, literally, and I don't hold with that at all, there's no excuse for that approach.

 

[Shayne]

Most of the hidings i got as a kid at school and at home were undeserved , in fact more often than not i had no idea why i was being hit , but it taught me right from wrong and moreover to fight for whats right and against the wrongs , is that why littering annoys me then ?

 

[clivehorridge]

Most of the hidings i got as a kid at school and at home were undeserved , in fact more often than not i had no idea why i was being hit , but it taught me right from wrong and moreover to fight for whats right and against the wrongs , is that why littering annoys me then ?

Probably

A quick slap for kids is is usually enough, but I'm still agin it unless they're particularly unruly.

The worst mistake IMO is no discipline at all. Goodness knows what the outcome of that breeds in an eventual young adult, I suppose the courts are dealing with that legacy every day.

 

[frank rabbets]

Yes some kids get abused just for the sake of it and that's not on.

 

[Bob]

I'll weigh in, speaking as a teacher.. but I'm only mid 30's so after the era of beatings and caning thankfully.
I for one would detest the idea of corporal punishment coming back in as a discipline measure, and I find assertive delivery and consistency in dealing with issues brings about the respect and cooperation of students for the most part.. but in other ways the system has gone a bit too far the other way, where you have to watch every word you say in a class in case it's brought up by a parent later.

So no to beatings, but I'd prefer if a bit more straight talking was let happen in some cases.

As for the litterbugs and fly tippers... no excuse.. appalling individuals

 

[Dave2000]

I was raised in the East End of London, whilst not a daily experience I did witness a German teacher being stabbed after using the cane on the pupil, of course this was suppressed publicly but it did happen.

The cane, the black board cleaner, a slipper while over the knee of the PE teacher, even being slapped around the face was seen daily, this really was the norm.

School was a viscous place to be, unruly behaviour was often met with corporal punishment, running in the hallway could see you being caned across the back of the neck, this was the German teachers trick and the resulting stabbing. I too was a teacher, and would love to have given some of the college/uni students I came across a bloody good kick up the arse, they knew they were 'bums on seats' and could pretty much do as they felt.

The problem is that the youngsters of today do not know where the boundaries are, you constantly hear parents in supermarkets telling their offspring to behave, only to give in and ply the clever and manipulating youngster with sweets..........conveniently placed alongside the checkout queue, mum or dad just happy for a quiet life give in too early, the tools there at hand.

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

I was taught by Irish Catholic priests. Fortunately there was no sexual abuse at all.

There were no school bullies as we all had a common enemy.

There were some lay teachers who never actually hit us but sent us for the cane. One lay teacher was totally mad and taught in the laboratory. He threw a heavy thick glass bottle at someone but missed so he picked up a thick walled glass barometer tube and smashed it over his head.

 

[mettisse]

The problem is that the youngsters of today do not know where the boundaries are, you constantly hear parents in supermarkets telling their offspring to behave, only to give in and ply the clever and manipulating youngster with sweets..........conveniently placed alongside the checkout queue, mum or dad just happy for a quiet life give in too early, the tools there at hand.

Dave[/QUOTE]
I totally agree with the above, although we are a tad off topic, or are we? It's all about behaviour, I make no claim to qualification on how to raise kids ( 2 boys 1 girl) all up and gone but what I have observed is kids thrive on proper training, respect and lots of love, when they know your yes is yes and no means no, not maybe , they thrive, I also agree that physical violence is not the way forward. Just my tuppence worth, I wouldn't want to be a schol teacher nowadays, not for any amount of money, best regards to all