Hello, help buying - auto or manual ?

G

Guest

Guest
Hello,
I am planning to buy a new Land Cruiser (the spec I have looked at and can afford is LC4 5DR D-4D 8s) but I am stuck on the deciding between manual or automatic.
Auto seems to be popular in UK but I am based here in Spain and manual seems to be more favoured and when I asked the dealer about auto he just shook his head and muttered 3 / 4 months for delivery - I can wait, that's not a problem.
I will use the car off road to get to some of the more remote places and beaches. Rough unmade tracks/terrain, no real steep hills. I go to Fuerteventura often on the ferry and there the tracks are soft sand. Day to day I will be rural road driving, no motorways here.
I have owner auto and manual transmission cars and quite happy with using either.
Should my decision just be personal preference or are there other factors I should consider? What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two?
Thank you
POPPY
Lanzarote, Spain
Buyer
 
G

Guest

Guest
Poppy

This is a frequently raised issue, and as far as I can see it comes down
to:

Autos:
*=09
Are easier to drive in town or general stop-start traffic (less
wear on the old left leg)
*=09
Are better for hill climbing off-road, especially sand dunes
(you can get a faster run up as they will then change down under power)
Manuals:
*=09
Give better fuel economy (about 2 to 3 mpg in the 4.2 litre 80
series, don't know about the LC4 series)
*=09
Offer more control when descending hills off-road (low range +
low gear =3D descent control)
*=09
In my opinion are better for heavy towing (particularly down
steep hills, using engine braking)
I have a manual (I bought it mainly for towing), but I'd be the first to
admit that the 80 series gearbox, which is derived from a bus, is very
clunky. I believe the LC4 box is miles better.

I think the reason that most UK vehicles are autos is that Toyota have
aimed for the luxury market here, where an auto box is practically
mandatory. Ultimate reliability in the desert or distant mountain
ranges, far from civilisation, is not - realistically - an issue for 99%
of those who buy them from new in the UK. For the most part they are
buying for "lifestyle" reasons, not for a definite purpose. Those who
just need a work horse, particularly for towing, would buy something
cheaper like a Land Rover.

Another thing you might want to consider is 2nd hand value. Obviously
if you plan to keep it for a long time this isn't an issue, but if you
buy something out of the ordinary in your locality you can suffer
financially if you sell within (say) five years. Have a look at the 2nd
hand prices of these trucks in Spain, and see if there is a marked
difference in price between auto & manual.

Finally what about maintenance and servicing? If you live in the
boondocks, or the standard of local mechanics is a bit basic, then a
manual might be a better bet: what they are used to seeing, less to go
wrong, less sensitive to high ambient temperatures and much easier to
change the oil!

Just my opinions! No doubt others will chime in and disagree.

Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT

Hello,
I am planning to buy a new Land Cruiser (the spec I have looked
at and can afford is LC4 5DR D-4D 8s) but I am stuck on the deciding
between manual or automatic.

Auto seems to be popular in UK but I am based here in Spain and
manual seems to be more favoured and when I asked the dealer about auto
he just shook his head and muttered 3 / 4 months for delivery - I can
wait, that's not a problem.

I will use the car off road to get to some of the more remote
places and beaches. Rough unmade tracks/terrain, no real steep hills.
I go to Fuerteventura often on the ferry and there the tracks are soft
sand. Day to day I will be rural road driving, no motorways here.

I have owner auto and manual transmission cars and quite happy
with using either.
Should my decision just be personal preference or are there
other factors I should consider? What are the advantages/disadvantages
of the two?

Thank you
POPPY
Lanzarote, Spain
Buyer

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G

Guest

Guest
On May 28, 2006, at 12:18 PM, Christopher Bell wrote:
> gearbox, which is derived from a bus, is very clunky
Hi Christopher
I do agree with you about the gearbox-I have problem doing the 2nd
gear even in the summertime(I thought I should have that problem only
in the winter)
And what I wonder is will it be the same if I change the clutch(have
230000Tkm on the clock.)?
Cheers
Lubo
96 HDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Lubo

I don't know. I definitely get a bit of clutch drag in low range when
it's cold, and my clutch goes through phases of juddering, but it
doesn't make any what my wife would call (when talking about her car)
"funny noises". My philosophy with transmission etc is "if it ain't
broke don't fix it!" I've done 122k miles (195k km).

But my gearbox isn't nearly as bad as yours - it's just annoying for the
first mile in cold weather - by the sound of it you have a much worse
problem. There is a place 15 miles from here that would sort out your
clutch & gearbox with ease, but sadly that's no use to you unless you
plan to come here on holiday or something.

Mine is going to Italy this summer, via France, Switzerland, Germany and
Austria. So let's hope I don't have to start sending plaintive emails
to this list from the top of the Brenner pass!

CB
=09
=09
On May 28, 2006, at 12:18 PM, Christopher Bell wrote:
gearbox, which is derived from a bus, is very clunky
Hi Christopher
I do agree with you about the gearbox-I have problem doing the
2nd gear even in the summertime(I thought I should have that problem
only in the winter)
And what I wonder is will it be the same if I change the
clutch(have 230000Tkm on the clock.)?
Cheers
Lubo
96 HDJ80
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Guest

Guest
On May 28, 2006, at 1:55 PM, Christopher Bell wrote:
> My philosophy with transmission etc is "if it ain't broke don't fix
> it!"
That's what I'm going to do-wait and see :)
rgrds
Lubo
 
G

Guest

Guest
No disagreement but has anyone else noticed that auto boxes on cars are
starting to be quoted with better MPG than the manual! Perhaps it's just
because the autos now have more gears? I think Mercedes are now using seven
speed auto boxes in cars and many auto boxes are 6 speed.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
_______________________________
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Christopher Bell
Sent: 28 May 2006 11:18
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Hello, help buying - auto or manual ?
Poppy
This is a frequently raised issue, and as far as I can see it comes down to:
Autos:
* Are easier to drive in town or general stop-start traffic (less wear
on the old left leg)
* Are better for hill climbing off-road, especially sand dunes (you
can get a faster run up as they will then change down under power)
Manuals:
* Give better fuel economy (about 2 to 3 mpg in the 4.2 litre 80
series, don't know about the LC4 series)
* Offer more control when descending hills off-road (low range + low
gear = descent control)
* In my opinion are better for heavy towing (particularly down steep
hills, using engine braking)
I have a manual (I bought it mainly for towing), but I'd be the first to
admit that the 80 series gearbox, which is derived from a bus, is very
clunky. I believe the LC4 box is miles better.
I think the reason that most UK vehicles are autos is that Toyota have aimed
for the luxury market here, where an auto box is practically mandatory.
Ultimate reliability in the desert or distant mountain ranges, far from
civilisation, is not - realistically - an issue for 99% of those who buy
them from new in the UK. For the most part they are buying for "lifestyle"
reasons, not for a definite purpose. Those who just need a work horse,
particularly for towing, would buy something cheaper like a Land Rover.
Another thing you might want to consider is 2nd hand value. Obviously if
you plan to keep it for a long time this isn't an issue, but if you buy
something out of the ordinary in your locality you can suffer financially if
you sell within (say) five years. Have a look at the 2nd hand prices of
these trucks in Spain, and see if there is a marked difference in price
between auto & manual.
Finally what about maintenance and servicing? If you live in the boondocks,
or the standard of local mechanics is a bit basic, then a manual might be a
better bet: what they are used to seeing, less to go wrong, less sensitive
to high ambient temperatures and much easier to change the oil!
Just my opinions! No doubt others will chime in and disagree.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
Hello,
I am planning to buy a new Land Cruiser (the spec I have looked at and can
afford is LC4 5DR D-4D 8s) but I am stuck on the deciding between manual or
automatic.
Auto seems to be popular in UK but I am based here in Spain and manual seems
to be more favoured and when I asked the dealer about auto he just shook his
head and muttered 3 / 4 months for delivery - I can wait, that's not a
problem.
I will use the car off road to get to some of the more remote places and
beaches. Rough unmade tracks/terrain, no real steep hills. I go to
Fuerteventura often on the ferry and there the tracks are soft sand. Day to
day I will be rural road driving, no motorways here.
I have owner auto and manual transmission cars and quite happy with using
either.
Should my decision just be personal preference or are there other factors I
should consider? What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two?
Thank you
POPPY
Lanzarote, Spain
Buyer
____________________________________________________________
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G

Guest

Guest
Lubo,
I suppose the gearbox oil is OK and the correct type for the box? I have
found ATF in a box that should have had EP80 and engine oil in a diff!
I have seen 80 series boxes auto and manual removed and they look like they
came from big trucks!
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
_______________________________
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Lubomir Kolev
Sent: 28 May 2006 11:41
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Hello, help buying - auto or manual ?
On May 28, 2006, at 12:18 PM, Christopher Bell wrote:
gearbox, which is derived from a bus, is very clunky
Hi Christopher
I do agree with you about the gearbox-I have problem doing the 2nd gear even
in the summertime(I thought I should have that problem only in the winter)
And what I wonder is will it be the same if I change the clutch(have
230000Tkm on the clock.)?
Cheers
Lubo
96 HDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Malcolm

You are right, and with a torque converter lockup and slightly higher
final drive ratio you'd expect the auto 80 series to be more economical
than the manual - but it doesn't seem to be the case.

My theory is that the auto box makes it easier to boot it away from the
lights, ie use more revs, whereas the manual lends itself to a more
leisurely driving style - I rarely exceed 2500 rpm, and on country roads
it stays in 5th the whole time. When I drove an auto 100 series I was
astonished at how much right foot it took to make it move off, and I can
see where the greater fuel usage might come from.

The other thing is that the quoted mpg is based on an artificial driving
cycle, and I wonder how representative that is? From my reading of
motoring reports (limited to the Torygraph on a Saturday) journalists
seem to struggle to get the quoted mpg in "real life" usage.

Christopher Bell
=09

No disagreement but has anyone else noticed that auto boxes on
cars are starting to be quoted with better MPG than the manual! Perhaps
it's just because the autos now have more gears? I think Mercedes are
now using seven speed auto boxes in cars and many auto boxes are 6
speed.

Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
____________________________________________________________
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G

Guest

Guest
Your right about the right foot, temptation is to use more right foot to
move off and then leave it there.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
_______________________________
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Christopher Bell
Sent: 28 May 2006 16:48
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Hello, help buying - auto or manual ?
Malcolm
You are right, and with a torque converter lockup and slightly higher final
drive ratio you'd expect the auto 80 series to be more economical than the
manual - but it doesn't seem to be the case.
My theory is that the auto box makes it easier to boot it away from the
lights, ie use more revs, whereas the manual lends itself to a more
leisurely driving style - I rarely exceed 2500 rpm, and on country roads it
stays in 5th the whole time. When I drove an auto 100 series I was
astonished at how much right foot it took to make it move off, and I can see
where the greater fuel usage might come from.
The other thing is that the quoted mpg is based on an artificial driving
cycle, and I wonder how representative that is? From my reading of motoring
reports (limited to the Torygraph on a Saturday) journalists seem to
struggle to get the quoted mpg in "real life" usage.
Christopher Bell
No disagreement but has anyone else noticed that auto boxes on cars are
starting to be quoted with better MPG than the manual! Perhaps it's just
because the autos now have more gears? I think Mercedes are now using seven
speed auto boxes in cars and many auto boxes are 6 speed.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
G

Guest

Guest
Malcolm
I changed the oil in Toyota when I bought the car but don't know what
kind of oil it was:-(
Lubo
On May 28, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Malcolm Bagley wrote:
> Lubo,
>
>
>
> I suppose the gearbox oil is OK and the correct type for the box?
> I have found ATF in a box that should have had EP80 and engine oil
> in a diff!
>
>
>
> I have seen 80 series boxes auto and manual removed and they look
> like they came from big trucks!
>
>
>
> Malcolm Bagley
>
> Stafford, UK
>
> 1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
>
> _______________________________
>
>
>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Lubo,
I had 70 series cruiser that had a really bad 3rd gear synchro that made
it near impossible getting into 3rd especially on a high rpm downchange
when you wanted good engine braking. As a quick temporary fix a friend
reccomended I try some Amsoil gearbox oil and it fixed it and I never
had to pull the box out. I have since used it in several vehicles and it
has alway's improved ease of shifting especially when the box is dead cold.
See http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/svg.aspx
Cheers,
Craig.
Lubomir Kolev wrote:
>
> Malcolm
>
> I changed the oil in Toyota when I bought the car but don't know what
> kind of oil it was:-(
>
> Lubo
> On May 28, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Malcolm Bagley wrote:
>
>> Lubo,
>>
>>
>>
>> I suppose the gearbox oil is OK and the correct type for the box? I
>> have found ATF in a box that should have had EP80 and engine oil in a
>> diff!
>>
>>
>>
>> I have seen 80 series boxes auto and manual removed and they look
>> like they came from big trucks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Malcolm Bagley
>>
>> Stafford, UK
>>
>> 1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
>>
>> _______________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Christopher,
The effect you noticed in the 100 series turbo diesel is engine
management related and the manuals are no better. The engine management
really limits fuel delivered at low rpm and severely retards the timing
to keep smoke and NOx levels low resulting in a engine that feels like a
gutless pig. Safari's 'D-Tronic' fixes this and the car then drives
much better. Some of the manuals are so bad with lack of off idle torque
that you can burn out the clutch during a hill start in a empty truck.
Hoipefully they will fix this with the common rail 130series if it gets
the twin turbo V8 diesel, basically two 2.2L Avensis car engines made
into a V8 and detuned.
Driving style makes a huge difference to economy I can make a 4 hour
drive to a family fishing hut 1/2 hour quicker than my father could in
his truck and yet usually get 2-3mpg better than him. Same truck
different driver I just accelerate more smoothly and brake less often
than him and it really annoy's him that I can drive faster but use less
fuel.
Cheers,
Craig.
Christopher Bell wrote:
> Malcolm
>
> You are right, and with a torque converter lockup and slightly higher
> final drive ratio you'd expect the auto 80 series to be more
> economical than the manual - but it doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> My theory is that the auto box makes it easier to boot it away from
> the lights, ie use more revs, whereas the manual lends itself to a
> more leisurely driving style - I rarely exceed 2500 rpm, and on
> country roads it stays in 5th the whole time. When I drove an auto
> 100 series I was astonished at how much right foot it took to make it
> move off, and I can see where the greater fuel usage might come from.
>
> The other thing is that the quoted mpg is based on an artificial
> driving cycle, and I wonder how representative that is? From my
> reading of motoring reports (limited to the Torygraph on a Saturday)
> journalists seem to struggle to get the quoted mpg in "real life" usage.
>
> Christopher Bell
Snip
 
G

Guest

Guest
On May 28, 2006, at 11:59 PM, Craig Vincent wrote:
Hi Craig
Never heard of that kind of oil.Do you think that name 'Amsoil' will
tell something to the guys in Toyota?Who produce it and some specs
available?
I drove my son today to his place and had a chance to try that 2nd
gear and for my surprise I could do it in 50km/h :)And I made it
twice!!!!!!
So after all it doesn't look so bad...
Thanks for the help !!!
Cheers
Lubo
96modHDJ80
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Lubo,
In relation to Toyota not likely. I avoid toyota dealers if at all
posible. I don't know what part of the world you are in Amsoil is a
privately owned boutique oil company in USA that makes dominantly full
synthetic oils, greases, ATF, etcetera and a small quantity of semi
synthetic engine oils. The gear oil I reccommended the 75W90 shockproof
is their premium gearbox oil. Allen Timm in South Africa tried it in his
96 and could not believe it was the same gearbox. I know it is available
in England somewhere as John Byrne from Ireland has bought it from there.
Cheers,
Craig.
Lubomir Kolev wrote:
 
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