Don't like the adverts?  Click here to remove them

HHO kit now fitted and working

Paul said:
Great arguments, but just one issue.
In the very first post you mention your fuel consumption with the kit fitted but only a "probably" without it fitted.
Maybe an acurate test with it switched on and then off would settle if it really is doing any good.

Paul.

Yep absolutely,another reason for fitting a switch on it is I will be able to do those runs and test the consumptionwith and without, will definately be doing that, if it s a piece of useless junk I will be certainly taking it off as I se no reason for the added complexity if it doesn't work and I'll put the money spent down to experience.
 
Interesting topic - as an aside, Ian and I had a look at a similar system in a petrol Paj at Hogmoor a while back. As you've said, this is a project for an enthusiast!

I guess I could dig my anorak and a few old lab coats and do the sums as to whether the theory supports this. The hypothesis seems sound enough. My gut feel is that there is nowhere near enough hydrogen going into the system to make a difference to the energy balance - same goes from the oxygen generated.

Crude calcs: Your 4.2l is sucking in 4.2l of air/fuel mixture per rev. At 2000rpm, the engine is sucking in 8,400l/min of air/fuel mixture. So the hydrogen concentration is pretty low in that volume. The question is whether 1:840 parts is meaningful. My gut feel is that from an energy perspective the hydrogen contribution is at best a zero net gain (you're simply reversing the hydrolysis reaction for all intents and purposes!) - chances are that you're inputting more energy to generate the hydrogen because no process is 100% efficient and you're certainly not capturing 100% of the energy released by the hydrogen combustion.

So the real issue is what benefits does hydrogen offer to the combustion process? Diesels are limited in performance by the flame speed during combustion - I would speculate that hydrogen would assist with this. Increased flame speed means higher rpm and higher power delivery, so we could assume improved performance. But more power means more fuel consumed all else being equal (and IMHO the hydrogen isn't contributing anything in terms of the energy balance) so I would think this increase in performance comes with a higher fuel bill. So a diesel might seem a bit more lively with hydrogen but you'd be feeding in more diesel too - maybe less additional diesel for the increased performance than would be needed for the same increase in performance without using hydrogen...

Some guys in South Africa reported better fuel economy adding 500ml ether per tank of diesel but the empirical data suggested that it was only/most significant when filling up and using the tank of fuel immediately (i.e. on a long trip). The speculation was that the ether evaporated out if left in the tank for an extended period. The theory behind this was that the ether helped with a cleaner, more efficient burn. So a similar theory but no energy consumption in generating the ether.

IMHO a net 10% improvement in fuel consumption with the hydrogen is a pipe dream. The fact that there might be claims of 30-40% makes me seriously question the veracity of the seller. A potential 30-40% increase would have every motor company pouring tens of billions into the technology!

I'll be very interested in your results once you've had a chance to get a few measurements. Hopefuly us sceptics will be proven wrong!
Hats off to you for at least giving it a bash :handgestures-salute: , rather than being an armchair "expert" like some of us :mrgreen:

Cheers,
 
ndrew.

Yep agree that I doubt there is enough Hydrogen to add any additional energy and has een said the reaction to split the electrolyte into Hydrogen and Oxygen uses the same amount of energy as you get from the hydrogen and oxygen (actually uses more energy as the reaction is not 100% efficient as some turns to heat).

I think the only benefit if any is going to be the hydrogen and extra oxygen acting as a burn catalyst both of which will help the diesel you put in to burn more completely. My view is that actually you should be effectively burning more diesel at lower throttle levels (say 30% of the 4.2L of air/fuel mix rather than 20%) so it should actually use less diesel - but it's a long time since I did physics and chemistry at school so not too sure on that one. I guess the only other thing that you mayneed to do is to adjust the fuelling which on an FTE would mean an ECU remap.
 
Yes, with you, Andy!

Andy Harvey said:
I guess the only other thing that you mayneed to do is to adjust the fuelling which on an FTE would mean an ECU remap.
Not sure this would be needed unless the hydrogen is contributing significant energy (fuel) to the process, which we seem to agree it is not. So if the idea is that the hydrogen improves the burn of diesel, then no need to play with the fuelling, I wouldn't think. Especially if we're talking about small gains.

Cheers,
 
You might want a chat with Adrianr on here as he had one on my 80 before i bought it off him.
 
Andrew Prince said:
Yes, with you, Andy!

[quote="Andy Harvey":1qeasks1] I guess the only other thing that you mayneed to do is to adjust the fuelling which on an FTE would mean an ECU remap.
Not sure this would be needed unless the hydrogen is contributing significant energy (fuel) to the process, which we seem to agree it is not. So if the idea is that the hydrogen improves the burn of diesel, then no need to play with the fuelling, I wouldn't think. Especially if we're talking about small gains.

Cheers,[/quote:1qeasks1]
Andrew

The only thing would be that if the burn efficiency was increased you may actually need less fuel to be injected for the same throttle opening - not sure and the ECU may auto learn this.
 
Don't like the adverts?  Click here to remove them
Great effort, for those that disbelieve the huge increase in fuel milage, it involves a great deal more than breaking the laws of thermal dynamics, this 100 series has been running for two years now,
 
Interesting. Is that your truck Majindi?

Welcome to the forum BTW.
 
Welcome Majindi to the forum and thanks for sharing.

Been looking into a HHO setup for years after running SVO in my diesel for 3 years plus prior. Certainly interesting look forward to learning more from your experience. Thanks
 
Welcome Majindi to the forum and thanks for sharing.

Been looking into a HHO setup for years after running SVO in my diesel for 3 years plus prior. Certainly interesting look forward to learning more from your experience. Thanks
Hello Dervis
Thanks for the welcome
With all the right gear the Fuelmaker is a very stable efficient reactor
Here in Aus we have 45-52 plus in the outback so keeping the unit cool was a job now put fan on the Pwm electronics and small peltier refrigerators on each end of the reactor, was a fun project regards majindi
 
Last edited:
Hello Dervis
Thanks for the welcome
With all the right gear the Fuelmaker is a very stable efficient reactor
Here in Aus we have 45-52 plus in the outback so keeping the unit cool was a job now put fan on the Pwm electronics and small peltier refrigerators on each end of the reactor, was a fun project regards majindi

Hi Majindi,
I'm looking into fitting an hho system in my 1HD-T. I was wondering if you bought yours fully functional or if you built it yourself.
Could we chat a bit?
I'm new to this forum and not sure how i can send you messages

If you could drop me an email at [email protected] :)
 
Hi Yonas, welcome to the forum. A little trick to get an email to a member to say they’ve been mentioned in a thread is to put the @ symbol in front of their forum name. This brings up a list to choose from. Alas in this case, neither majindi nor Andy Harvey appear to be on the forum any more.
I think by reading what Majindi has posted it looks like it was a bought unit that he has added some extra cooling to.
Hope this helps and good luck with your addition. It would be great if you could do a write up with pics on your install.

I’ve been interested in this for some time.
Best wishes
Rich
 
There is no additional energy created, the laws of unity thermodynamics are not challenged, simply - it is a question of efficiency, more fuel energy is converted into useful mechanical energy and less into wasted thermal energy exhaust. Only a minute amount of Orthohydrogen is required to completely change the combustion characteristics of your engine. This is nothing new, academic institutes have been aware of orthohydrogen for years, vested interest has more than somewhat murked progress, but with the advent of major shipping concerns and transport organisations such as UPS adopting this technology, the future for it looks bright.

Who would not want:-
  • Significant fuel saving
  • Increase in horsepower
  • Absolutely spotless - decarbonised moving parts
  • Decreased engine vibration and noise
  • Increased time between oil changes
  • Increased time between maintenance requirements
  • Significant reduction in CO2 and other greenhouse gasses
  • Soot/particulate reduction down to almost zero PPM in some cases

NASA States:-
Lean mixture ratio combustion in internal-combustion plant/engines has the potential of producing low emissions and higher thermal efficiency for several reasons.
  • First, excess oxygen in the charge further oxidizes unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide.
  • Second, excess oxygen lowers the peak combustion temperatures, which inhibits the formation of oxides of nitrogen.
  • Third, the lower combustion temperatures increase the mixture specific heat ratio by decreasing the net dissociation losses.
  • Fourth, as the specific heat ratio increases, the cycle thermal efficiency also increases, which gives the potential for better fuel economy.”
To summarise:

The more efficient hydrogen assisted engine has more fuel energy converted into useful mechanical energy and less into wasted thermal energy.
This is apparent to the user in increased fuel economy, lower combustion temperatures and approximately 100C lower exhaust temperature.
The hydrogen assisted combustion ignites faster and more completely. The same amount of fuel explodes more thoroughly creating more power. This power is transferred into mechanical energy and not heat. Further, the generated force acts when it is supposed to – at the beginning of the combustion stroke of the engine. Not later when the piston is already half way down the stroke or even worse, while returning on the exhaust stroke.
Residual combustion on the exhaust stroke impedes engine rotation (lowering economy) and increases exhaust temperature and shortens the life of the exhaust valves.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top