Injectors

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Hi All
Got car last night and seems better than before so thank you to Craig and all the rest of you for your advice. Mr Injector re seated the injectors to factory spec and the idle seems better. Torque is still less than before but I think that reading on the net this is a common issue with a tired IP and new injectors set to correct crack offs. Its struggling to make the right pressure and consensus is to go for a pusher pump to compensate for the IP weakness. He will charge me worst case =A3850 for a complete rebuild and calibration of the pump. I am tempted but so far july cost me =A31200 and I am not sure the bank can handle another wedge going out. He is going to look into getting me a pump and then lets see. I really must do the shocks and springs and the BeB's and now the Birfields are clunking even more so that's going to take me to 2k so far this summer on the car. What is a 94 1hd-t 80 4.2 TD VX with 170k on the clock worth?? I suspect less than what I am paying out to fix it??
Re exhausts I would go Longlife if I had the money. Froggies was a good compromise for substantially less money but slightly more hassle.
Ps had a fiddle with the IP last night. I know I am mad but I thought I should at least have a look at how hard it is. Loosened the top lock nut and screwed in the boost half a turn..... took her out for a spin and???? Nothing different! Then had a poke around for the toothed wheel but instead found a rubber cover with a 2 cm tag attached so completely puzzled by that and decided to leave well alone. It is not like described on the net and nothing in the manual so not sure now?
Tonight I am going to remove middle seats and check tank again as maybe there is something in there blocking the fuel? Will report back.
All the best


Simon Hughes
Tel: 020 7549 3663
Mobile: 07973 288061
Mail: [Email address removed]
 
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Simon
Your stamina is only to be admired.
I hope all comes good in the end and thanks for the tip re Longlife. I may pay
them a visit soonish and see what they make of my car's undersides.
Jeremy
HDJ81 etc etc
 
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Hey Simon
I know how you feel believe me, and I know its hard but it will end..
I think you have to be confronted with the constant jobs that seem to come
all at once to appreciate this love/hate feeling for the cruiser
You will get over this and the one good thing is you should never have to
work on those bits again.
The only problem is once you seem to do so much to the cruiser and then you
cant get rid of it as it is now worth more to you than to sell it.
A few years ago I had a similar experience when the BEB broke apart in the
engine, then the fuel pump stopped working, then the Cv broke while in the
mountains, then the replacement Cv broke into little bits, then the head
gasket blew on the new engine, and all with in a small space of time.
And its always the same , the amount of people you seem to meet that tell
you O Toyotas are so good and go for ever and my this or that had a Toyota
for years and years and never any trouble at all.
There was times when I thought about what it would look like covered in a
nice sheet of flames
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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John
Re you know how Simon feels....
I liken my LC to an alcoholic drinking mate that never buys a round - but is such great craic you can't help pulling up a stool and getting the round in anyway.
I was going to go tweaking my injectors but after hearing about Simon's Injectors have decided to leave them alone & go out for a few pints instead - without the stingy alcopop guzziling mate Mr LC
Niall
'95 HDJ81
Hey Simon
I know how you feel believe me, and I know its hard but it will end..
I think you have to be confronted with the constant jobs that seem to come
all at once to appreciate this love/hate feeling for the cruiser
You will get over this and the one good thing is you should never have to
work on those bits again.
The only problem is once you seem to do so much to the cruiser and then you
cant get rid of it as it is now worth more to you than to sell it.
A few years ago I had a similar experience when the BEB broke apart in the
engine, then the fuel pump stopped working, then the Cv broke while in the
mountains, then the replacement Cv broke into little bits, then the head
gasket blew on the new engine, and all with in a small space of time.
And its always the same , the amount of people you seem to meet that tell
you O Toyotas are so good and go for ever and my this or that had a Toyota
for years and years and never any trouble at all.
There was times when I thought about what it would look like covered in a
nice sheet of flames
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Mate, come on over and look at my Land Rover Defender bills! And it's still a heap of kak! ;-)
At least your cruiser will be a fine machine when sorted out....
On 3 Aug 2006, at 17:26, Simon Hughes wrote:
 
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Hi All
Put 500 miles on the new injectors and the verdict? Pointless exercise
as the car is using more diesel, is less powerful than before and still
lumpy idle when cold. The injector shop are taking the car back in to
fix a leaky injector and I will get them to rebuild the IP and
completely re do the injectors again.
Also, like Chris, my Birfields are clonking more and more now,
particularly most noticeably going up or down steep bends or over rough
surfaces so I will get the bits from Milners on order and sort it out.
One rear shock is gone and now the fronts are clunking too so I am going
to do the OME at the same time. God August is going to be expensive.
I have ordered new seals from Milner even though I changed them a year
ago I think it is good insurance to replace them at the same time as the
Birfields. Interestingly I damaged the Toyota one and had to use the
Milners instead on the drivers side and that is the one is now has a
slight leak!
All the best


Simon Hughes
94 TLC 4.2 TD and not happy at all
www.stratasearch.co.uk

Tel: 020 7549 3663
Mobile: 07973 288061
Mail: [Email address removed]
 
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Simon
| Put 500 miles on the new injectors and the verdict?
| Pointless exercise as the car is using more diesel, is less
| powerful than before and still lumpy idle when cold. The
| injector shop are taking the car back in to fix a leaky
| injector and I will get them to rebuild the IP and completely
| re do the injectors again.
Sorry to hear this, but exceedingly grateful that you have been brave
enough to be the guinea pig in this respect. I hope that a pump rebuild
transforms matters.
| Also, like Chris, my Birfields are clonking more and more
| now, particularly most noticeably going up or down steep
| bends or over rough surfaces so I will get the bits from
| Milners on order and sort it out.
| One rear shock is gone and now the fronts are clunking too so
| I am going to do the OME at the same time. God August is
| going to be expensive.
Snap: I've also asked them to price up new shocks all round, as I'm
getting judder at certain speed/load combinations, not due to tyre
imbalance, and the ride is pretty poor on bad surfaces.
| I have ordered new seals from Milner even though I changed
| them a year ago I think it is good insurance to replace them
| at the same time as the Birfields. Interestingly I damaged
| the Toyota one and had to use the Milners instead on the
| drivers side and that is the one is now has a slight leak!
I'll make sure, as Julian and you (now) both have advised to get those
replaced with the genuine Toyota bits.
Christopher Bell
____________________________________________________________
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systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
 
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Hi Simon
do you remember the song: 'always look at the bright side of life'?
common -this is only a car.... I bought mine for 15500 euros and
already invest(repair )it for over 8000 but give a shit... if
something goes terribly wrong
I'll just buy cheap 'Corolla' and go on. Life is not a LandCruiser.
Cheers up !!!!!!!!!!!! :))))))))))))
Lubo
'96HDJ80
On Aug 9, 2006, at 10:58 AM, Simon Hughes wrote:
> 94 TLC 4.2 TD and not happy at all
 
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Hi Simon,
Lean on them hard when they look at the injection pump and advise them
that you want all of the old parts that are replaced returned to you (it
helps keep them honest). I strongly suspect they set up your nozzles
incorrectly or even used the wrong nozzles. I have helped friends with
probably 6-8 sets and I will only use one guy for the injector servicing
as he does it right. I have yet to see a set make a truck run worse or
use more fuel even if the injection pump is tired. I know of numerous
cruisers that ran like dog's (half dead as well) after having being
rebuilt by other companies that were not as fussy setting them up. I
have also seen several injection pumps that were supposedly stuffed
ressurect themselves and behave like near new after being force fed with
a Walbro pump. I hope the guy's that are working on your truck do know
what they are doing?
From seeing numersous sets rebuilt I would say typically the
differences normally seen are smoother idle less black smoke during
light acceleration, smoother less harsh sounding combustion noise, less
or typically no white smoke after long trailing throttle down hills runs
when the piston combustion chambers cool, no difference to power but
engine often feels more lively at light throttle, & better fuel economy.
If left far too long terrible combustion noise and eventually the piston
crown will melt and burst spectacularly into liquid aluminium as it
vaporises and heads out the exhaust port.
Remind me if I don't do it and I will post a pic of a melted piston
caused by leaking nozzle tips.
Regards,
Craig.
Christopher Bell wrote:
Snip
 
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Hi All

Thanks for the encouragement and advice.

Craig may be onto the right path when he said it is worth sorting out
the pusher pump. I will be ordering one from the states as I cannot
find a supplier here that can get one and Walbro is a proven fix for a
Landcruiser suffering the way mine is. I will make sure they give me
back all the old parts for the pump when they re build it.

The BeB situation is worrying me too but apart from a slight drop in oil
pressure I can hear/see no evidence of there being an issue. However,
it is on the list of things to do for the summer.

All the best


Simon Hughes


Tel: 020 7549 3663
Mobile: 07973 288061
Mail: [Email address removed]
 
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Simon,
Re IP rebuild, see my previous post about the difference between Denso
and Bosch.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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Simon,
I would wait and get the injectors set up correctly before instigating any work on the injector pump, even if this means going somewhere else - possibly Julian's contact in Swindon.
My feeling is that you will just end up deeper in trouble. The injector pump may not be 100% but it is working well enough to power the vehicle fine (prior to the recent work). What has changed in the equation are the injectors - not the injector pump.
If you get the injection pump "overhauled" you then have two items that have been worked on. If the vehicle still runs like a dog with two legs how are you going to fault find? Do you turn your attention back to the injectors or go to the pump?
All the time the =A3s and the hassle are both clocking up.
One variable at a time.
Fit the Walbro pump by all means, a comparitively cheap and easy exercise, I have just ordered another one from APE in the states. I am sure it will improve matters but I'm equally sure it will not cure all your injection problems.
I realise that this may not be what you want to hear, but I am only thinking of your end of month credit card statement!!!!!!!
Regards Gareth Jones.
 
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Simon,
Just to add to Craig's post, they really need to get the injectors
taken out and properly tested remembering that they are dual pressure
injectors - I seem to recall hearing getting the first pressure right
and not the second one can cause problems as you describe.
It sounds as though they have made a bit of a pickle with the injectors
- I would ensure that they get that sorted out first before you start
worrying over getting the IP done and if you do decide to do it I would
be tempted to take it elsewhere.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Julian,
Getting properly tested does not mean checking crack off pressure. The
only way to check someones cockup on dual spring injectors is to remove
them (send them to someone who has proper setup tools for 1HD-FT as the
-T is different and they are a unique set of tools for two toy engines)
check main and pre-lift with SST's set both opening pressures and then
you are done. This could take 4-6+ hours depending how much of a mess
they are. Assuming you got your own bodies back again there is a part
number on the body of the injector which can be used to tell what nozzle
assembly is to be used with that body.
There used to be an unscrupulous guy in Ch-Ch servicing indirect
injectors and he used two nozzles to cover all japanese diesel engines.
One was a SD25 nissan nozzle (yes it was cheap) and he fitted them to
everything they would physically fit in and the number of premature and
catastrohic engine failures was horrendous.
I hope you get it sorted Simon, you guy's in the UK sound as though you
need to find someone who is really good and prepared to put the time in
to set them up perfect and then let everyone else no about them. AS you
should not have to put up with this grief to get a set of toy injectors
fitted with new nozzles and setup properly. It does not help that some
injector shops have a god complex and are never wrong and never make
mistakes.
Cheers,
Craig.
Julian Voelcker wrote:
 
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Hi Guy's,
A couple of pics of a 14B direct injection toyota piston that had a
badly worn nozzle.
You can see the combustion chamber has begun to melt.
You can see the edge of the piston crown has also melted at this point
from the extreme thermal load of a stuck open injector.
Cheers,
Craig.
Snip
>
> If left far too long terrible combustion noise and eventually the
> piston crown will melt and burst spectacularly into liquid aluminium
> as it vaporises and heads out the exhaust port.
> Remind me if I don't do it and I will post a pic of a melted piston
> caused by leaking nozzle tips.
>
> Regards,
> Craig.
Snip.
>
>
 
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Hi All
Scary pictures Craig.
Took car in this morning and will know by lunchtime what has caused the
leak. All this is being done at their cost so the car will keep going
back till its right.
The guy can't figure why the cold idle is so lumpy and the torque has
dropped. Idle speed is ok but I can only describe it as lumpy and there
is more vibration than there used to be. Once warm its fine. Its not
the cold start as the car starts easily just runs rough.
Also he is puzzled by the apparent lack of torque, it is not completely
gutless just seems to be slow to rev under load to about 1.5k then the
turbo is kicking in fully and the engine is ok but still has not got the
pull it had before. I am not puzzled as I know it is the injectors!
How he can cure it is another story!
Car will go back in next week as I want him to have the injectors re set
again according to the factory spec.
All the best


Simon Hughes
Tel: 020 7549 3663
Mobile: 07973 288061
Mail: [Email address removed]
 
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Hey Craig
Can you explain what the difference is between the two injectors for engines
T -FT please. I presume the T is less complicated and so easier to do. Says
me who has never seen an injector of course.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hi John,
They are as bad as each other just different set up tools for both sets.
You guy's should not have to put up with this crap though. What about
Maarten at all-american he is pretty clued up can he do exchange rebuilt
sets or even new sets at a sharp price?
The 1HZ indirect injection engines injectors are simple single spring
injectors but I will never go back to a dirty gutless soot producing
head cracking IDI engine again.
Cheers,
Craig.
John Byrne wrote:
 
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Hi All
Got the car back weds night from the injectors man and first reports are
very positive. Starts cleaner and idles smoother, pulls away in first
and no hesitation but the engine seems to rev slightly less willingly
than before the injectors were redone again. However the torque is back
and will pull up my hill happily in 2nd, blip the throttle and the car
surges ahead up the hill, formerly the car would slog up the hill and if
you pressed the throttle nothing would happen and then you would have
change down to 1st to get the revs up. At 45 in 5th the car starts to
build speed immediately you accelerate. Before she would think about it
for some time before things started to happen.
Conclusion is that the setup of the injectors was initially wrong and
after I had given them the correct info they were able to really dial
them in.
All in all a learning process but done at their expense so I should not
complain too loudly. Now the IP but will think hard about who I get to
do it for me.
OME springs arrived from Froggies weds and now look good sitting in
their boxes in my hall! Boy do they need doing! Just need the Bilsteins
and I am sorted for a couple of night grafting.
All the best


Simon Hughes
93 HD-T TLC 4.2L Turbo Diesel custom SS Exhaust and OME springs (in the
box)
Tel: 020 7549 3663
Mobile: 07973 288061
Mail: [Email address removed]
 
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Simon,
Big sigh of relief!
Have you got the Walbro pump yet?
I have just received another one from Ron Gregory at APE in the USA
within 10 days of ordering it.
I would fit the Walbro pump before doing anything with the Injector
pump. Far cheaper and less stressful.
Regards Gareth Jones.
 
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