Looking to buy a 'new' LC....maybe!

[Justin Time]

Hi. I'm in the process of considering my next vehicle and one of the options could be a LC. Not the newest version, but a 150, probably aged between 2020 and 2023. I've been scanning ads and trying to research, but there's a few questions that I can't find any answers to, so thought I'd come straight to the experts - i.e the owners. Please bear with me if these Qs seem self evident for you, but all info. and constructive advice would be very welcome.

Here we go...

I've noted that in ads, the 3 door version of the LC seems to quote lower ground clearance figures compared to the 5 door. That's 205 mm vs 215 mm. Is that correct?

Active trim vs Invincible. Thinking about longer term ownership, it seems self-evident (but assumptions can be wrong!), that the fewer electrical goodies on the Active would make this a more reliable, less costly, future proof option? Any comparisons, examples out there?

On the invincible trim, how reliable have all the various suspension extras and electronic parts and proven to be (e.g KDSS, AVS, etc.) ?

Some ads describe certain vehicles with full-size "temporary' spare wheels, while others miss of the 'temporary' description. Is it described as temporary because it's maybe steel rather than alloy? Surely not some form of space-saver?

When did the manual DPF switch come in? 2021? Is it necessary, or just for those who do shorter distances?

Tyres: vehicles appear to be shod with Dunlop Grandtrek AT23 , while others have Bridgestone Dueler h/T

Are there any decent independent LC specialist you'd recommend in the north of England? I've see only a few ads on an internet search and as none have any Trustpilot or similar reviews it's hard to judge whether they are competent. Also, some seem to have the same introduction to their services rather if they've cut and pasted from some general source.

 

[Shayne]

I can't answer any of your questions other than to say mostly discussed on the forum vaguely relative to maintenance and reliability , we are talking about circa 30 year old cruisers with over a quarter of a million miles on the clock . So perhaps its just to soon to be hearing of any issues with the 150 series ?

Personally I'm not a fan of electronics but what alternative option is there , I've heard it said you need a laptop to change the brake pads on a landrover

 

[Justin Time]

Thanks Shayne - made me smile. Yes, re the electronics, I was 'doing research!' on a YouTube channel and the Aussie overland made an interesting point re their equivalent level of the invincible trim, noting that replacing a wing-mirror on that level of LC cost $3500 each, due to the gubbins-gizmo stuff packed into it like, cameras. Whereas, the standard mirror cost a lot less, obviously.

I can do without a lot of extras (I grew up when we had winding windows and a radio was a luxury) and cruise control is of little interest to me, as well as auto wipers, and the like. But, being the snowflake I am I've grown to appreciate heated seats!

 

[Juddian]

My own experience is with older stuff, from my first 70 to the current 120. Had a new Hilux in 2007 but despite being top spec was still relatively simple, in rerospect we should have kept it.

Over the fullness of time the middling ranges seem to be easiest and cheapest to maintain and there's less faff to fail anyway, ie the touch screen on our LC5 we pray won't go wrong because it controls so much else, obvious audio but also climate controls, OE replacement cost would make you cry, its possible to replace with aftermarket system but far beyond my electrical bodgery and still nto cheap.
LC4 and lower the radio/cd player is exactly that, climate is by knobs, so a broekn radio is a simple £80 Kenwood jobbie from Hellfords plus probably an adaptor for £20.

Certainly whilst almost new the top ranges are desirable and more expensive but as time goes by fewer of the lads here looking to buy want the top spec and the LC4 in 120 form is the one they all look for, you can retrofit most of the electronic and rear airsprung out and replace with steel springs normal shocks etc, but inevitably doing so is more involved than simply replacing a set of shocks.
To be fair my LC5 hasn't thrown any issues as such, much of that i am certain is because i plaster the underbody in ACF50 grease and now chain lube underneath every years which helps keep the salt from doing its worst, and you don't really need to use the touch screen all that much because the vital controls are sensibly buttons underneath.

An Active trim 150 would normally have nice warm in winter cool in summer cloth, yes the leather is nice but i've got a sheepskin cover on mine cos i'm a big girls blouse .

Not sure about space saver wheels, haven't heard of such a thing on any LC, and as far as i know the spares are alloys...by the way i found sticking the underslung spare alloy on my Hilux in a thick plastic bag before winding it back up into place kept it in as new condition...also i had a motorcycle chain with substantial padlock through the wheel and over the chassis to deter low lifes.

Tyre make wise not many replace with what was fitted new, several of us on Yokohama GO15s, some swear by their BFG AT's, i'll need a new set next year and may well try the recently tested (by Jon at TyreReviews) Kumho AT52 which are very well priced to boot, if not then another set of Yokos will probably see me out, its taken 7+ years to get them down to 5mm and i'm an old fart so probably the last set of tyres i'll need.

The 2.8 engine isn't mentioned much on the forums which means its isn't falling apart or plagued by some wet belt internal disasters like some others.
The usual suspect 'influencers' keep rattling on echoing one another about how underpowered the engine is in the latest model, personally i think thats a load of bollocks, it and a 150 have got more power than my 120 yet oddly enough i find myself stuck behind queues and not in the front being flashed out of the way by JCB Fastracs, Toyotas 4 pots don't have masses of power on paper but instant torque they've got which translates to a good drive wherever you are, no bragging rights unless you start comparing 20+ year reliabilities with owners of some other marques.

Can't help with indies in your area, if you're handy DIY these vehicles are easy to service, but remember under 10 years of age and 100k miles if you get it serviced at Toyota they stick a year's warranty of the most expensive stuff on, i for one would be using Mr T at least until 10 years.

Most important thing in my humble is to find one with minimal if any underbody corrision and start a rusproofing regime of your choice from day 1, older rust free examples are in high demand within the LC commmunity.

Sod me, didn't mean to waffle on quite so long, anyone still awake?

 

[Justin Time]

My own experience is with older stuff, from my first 70 to the current 120. Had a new Hilux in 2007 but despite being top spec was still relatively simple, in rerospect we should have kept it.

Over the fullness of time the middling ranges seem to be easiest and cheapest to maintain and there's less faff to fail anyway, ie the touch screen on our LC5 we pray won't go wrong because it controls so much else, obvious audio but also climate controls, OE replacement cost would make you cry, its possible to replace with aftermarket system but far beyond my electrical bodgery and still nto cheap.
LC4 and lower the radio/cd player is exactly that, climate is by knobs, so a broekn radio is a simple £80 Kenwood jobbie from Hellfords plus probably an adaptor for £20.

Certainly whilst almost new the top ranges are desirable and more expensive but as time goes by fewer of the lads here looking to buy want the top spec and the LC4 in 120 form is the one they all look for, you can retrofit most of the electronic and rear airsprung out and replace with steel springs normal shocks etc, but inevitably doing so is more involved than simply replacing a set of shocks.
To be fair my LC5 hasn't thrown any issues as such, much of that i am certain is because i plaster the underbody in ACF50 grease and now chain lube underneath every years which helps keep the salt from doing its worst, and you don't really need to use the touch screen all that much because the vital controls are sensibly buttons underneath.

An Active trim 150 would normally have nice warm in winter cool in summer cloth, yes the leather is nice but i've got a sheepskin cover on mine cos i'm a big girls blouse .

Not sure about space saver wheels, haven't heard of such a thing on any LC, and as far as i know the spares are alloys...by the way i found sticking the underslung spare alloy on my Hilux in a thick plastic bag before winding it back up into place kept it in as new condition...also i had a motorcycle chain with substantial padlock through the wheel and over the chassis to deter low lifes.

Tyre make wise not many replace with what was fitted new, several of us on Yokohama GO15s, some swear by their BFG AT's, i'll need a new set next year and may well try the recently tested (by Jon at TyreReviews) Kumho AT52 which are very well priced to boot, if not then another set of Yokos will probably see me out, its taken 7+ years to get them down to 5mm and i'm an old fart so probably the last set of tyres i'll need.

The 2.8 engine isn't mentioned much on the forums which means its isn't falling apart or plagued by some wet belt internal disasters like some others.
The usual suspect 'influencers' keep rattling on echoing one another about how underpowered the engine is in the latest model, personally i think thats a load of bollocks, it and a 150 have got more power than my 120 yet oddly enough i find myself stuck behind queues and not in the front being flashed out of the way by JCB Fastracs, Toyotas 4 pots don't have masses of power on paper but instant torque they've got which translates to a good drive wherever you are, no bragging rights unless you start comparing 20+ year reliabilities with owners of some other marques.

Can't help with indies in your area, if you're handy DIY these vehicles are easy to service, but remember under 10 years of age and 100k miles if you get it serviced at Toyota they stick a year's warranty of the most expensive stuff on, i for one would be using Mr T at least until 10 years.

Most important thing in my humble is to find one with minimal if any underbody corrision and start a rusproofing regime of your choice from day 1, older rust free examples are in high demand within the LC commmunity.

Sod me, didn't mean to waffle on quite so long, anyone still awake?

Immensely helpful Juddian, and I think we've 'met' on another forum and I'm on this one after your previous advice - cheers again. ACF 50. I should already have been treating my Subie with this, but will certainly give the treatment to my partner's newish Karoq.

My only experience with Toyota was a late 1980's Hi lux 'backie' (double cab) I had while living and working in rural northern Namibia on the Angolan border for several years, immediately after the war ended (1990/91). However, it did have a South African petrol engine as per usual for that region and had clocked up 145,000 plus miles when I acquired it. I adored it, and with it's hub mounted 4x4 switches, it took us safely into some of the most remote and extreme desert and savanna regions of deep sand, gravel, rocks and the like, armed with only 2 spare wheels and a half-dozen inner tubes. I was able to work on it myself, albeit that was back when cars had carburettors, distributors, points, etc.

Yes, I've noticed that Toyota do a 10 years warranty option. I guess dealerships vary as with other makes regarding their competence? I ask because in my travels I came across this Active (urgh - can't post the link here! Selling at FRF Toyota
Registration LR72 VRX) on the 'approved used list'. Close inspection shows the offside front has a Nova Force C/F tyre (£68) fitted while the others are the original Duelers by the looks of it. At least they're upfront about it with a clear photograph. I guess it's had an unrepairable puncture and they've ignored the usual advice about all 4 tyres matching.

Many thanks again.

 

[Juddian]

Nice to see you dropped in from the Subbie forum JT, you came to the right place for help and chat here, i still like that white one you linked to at the other place by the way.

ACF50 isn't a one off treatment its something that needs a reapplication every year, i personally like it because it goes on easily and seeps into the nooks and crannies something much heavier/sticky/abrasion proof is needed for heavy weather and chassis areas.

Hilux's are great, you'll be right at home routine servicing a 150, they're modified obviously but not miles different to a 120 in many ways, come to that much of Toyotas large 4x4 range have many similarities (though dare say the 250 is a different kettle of fish), watching the Car Care Nut on Youtube (superb USA based ex Toyota master tech with his own Toyota indy workshop) going through a new USA market 4runner couple of years ago, underneath it wasn't much different to our 120s, another chap i watched swapping out rear airbags on a huge Toyota SUV possibly Sequoia (speeling), saved it because it was the clearest video i've seen showing the easy way to swap the identical rear airbag set up on the Prados.

Never heard of that tyre make, they really pushed the boat out there, not, there's cheap and not on your nelly and that sits in the latter camp, no harm in going to have a poke nose at it mind, if its good otherwise they'd be foolish to lose the sale over the cost of a suitable tyre.
We test drove a 100 series many years ago, around 3 years old at the time, approved used at a London dealer, it had an odd but proper tyre on the NSF and the steering wheel was way off centre so i suspect there was more than a puncture involved there, surprised that a Toyota dealer would offer the vehicle for sale like that, we walked away.

 

[Justin Time]

Nice to see you dropped in from the Subbie forum JT, you came to the right place for help and chat here, i still like that white one you linked to at the other place by the way.

ACF50 isn't a one off treatment its something that needs a reapplication every year, i personally like it because it goes on easily and seeps into the nooks and crannies something much heavier/sticky/abrasion proof is needed for heavy weather and chassis areas.

Hilux's are great, you'll be right at home routine servicing a 150, they're modified obviously but not miles different to a 120 in many ways, come to that much of Toyotas large 4x4 range have many similarities (though dare say the 250 is a different kettle of fish), watching the Car Care Nut on Youtube (superb USA based ex Toyota master tech with his own Toyota indy workshop) going through a new USA market 4runner couple of years ago, underneath it wasn't much different to our 120s, another chap i watched swapping out rear airbags on a huge Toyota SUV possibly Sequoia (speeling), saved it because it was the clearest video i've seen showing the easy way to swap the identical rear airbag set up on the Prados.

Never heard of that tyre make, they really pushed the boat out there, not, there's cheap and not on your nelly and that sits in the latter camp, no harm in going to have a poke nose at it mind, if its good otherwise they'd be foolish to lose the sale over the cost of a suitable tyre.
We test drove a 100 series many years ago, around 3 years old at the time, approved used at a London dealer, it had an odd but proper tyre on the NSF and the steering wheel was way off centre so i suspect there was more than a puncture involved there, surprised that a Toyota dealer would offer the vehicle for sale like that, we walked away.

 

[Justin Time]

This seems helpful. I'm guessing most of this you'll be under-sealing, etc.

 

[Gr8Yota]

Welcome.

I’m not able to answer most of your questions but ref wheels and ground clearance As far as I am aware both the short and std wheelbases come with full size spares matching the rest. One thing to note is that the 5dr has the spare underneath and the 3dr has it on the rear door. I don’t know why different clearances are listed other than the 3dr is on smaller tyres as that is the only thing that would effect ground clearance if it is indeed different.

In general, and certainly the case with the predecessor to the 150 the specs below top are more robust with less electronics and coils rather than air etc etc. But that said all Land Cruisers are pretty reliable and all suffer from frame corrosion. KDSS etc all seem to have a good track record and are used hard on models in the USA if not here.

 

[Justin Time]

Welcome.

I’m not able to answer most of your questions but ref wheels and ground clearance As far as I am aware both the short and std wheelbases come with full size spares matching the rest. One thing to note is that the 5dr has the spare underneath and the 3dr has it on the rear door. I don’t know why different clearances are listed other than the 3dr is on smaller tyres as that is the only thing that would effect ground clearance if it is indeed different.

In general, and certainly the case with the predecessor to the 150 the specs below top are more robust with less electronics and coils rather than air etc etc. But that said all Land Cruisers are pretty reliable and all suffer from frame corrosion. KDSS etc all seem to have a good track record and are used hard on models in the USA if not here.

Thank you for that information Gr8Yota. I'm having to have a major rethink at the moment, as the information I'vegleaned about the most recent LC engine - the 1GD (both it's earlier 175 bhp and later 2022 201bhp 'remap'), isn't encouraging regarding, specifically the DPF, EGR cooler and timing chain issues. There's plenty of praise for the 1KD, which despite some issues seems much more readily fixable and less costly.