Manual/auto

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Guest

Guest
Just wondered if anyone had thoughts on manual v auto boxes for series 80
vehicles. The car will be used in various places...UK, N Africa and
hopefully on a longer drive to east Africa... when I get one. I'd prefer
auto but have had conversations with some who are adamant about manual.
Roman I don't know if you're around but would be interested in your thoughts
re overlanding and gearboxes.
Jeremy
 
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Guest

Guest
Hello Jeremy,
First of all, I think in the UK the 80 series market is too small to snub a
good offer if it comes your way, be it manual or auto box.
My LC is the first auto box vehicle I have ever had (more by coincidence than
choice), so my experience is not that vast, but for me it hard to argue with
the comfort of not needeng to decide which gear to select before you drive
across a difficult patch. Just point it and go!
Overlanding is not so much about off-roading as long distance travel, hence the
gearbox issue seems to be more important in the context of comfort, reliability
and praticality of repairs rather than precise application of power. 80 series
auto boxes are pretty robust and need very little attention (except for proper
cooling), so with the potential clutch problem out of the way, I think the auto
box has more pluses than minuses.
--
Rgds,
Roman
London UK
'92 HDJ80
==Quoting Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>:
 
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Guest

Guest
Thanks for this Roman. I'm sure for the kind of travel I intend in Morocco
etc an auto box will be fine.
I appreciate your advice. There are more auto cars around than manual and
I'll fit a couple of oil coolers...
Jeremy
On 8/11/04 20:29, "[Email address removed]" <[Email address removed]>
wrote:
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
22a Alexandra Grove
London N4 2LF
Tel: 020 8800 4987
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
G

Guest

Guest
Roman wrote:
<My LC is the first auto box vehicle I have ever had (more by coincidence
than
choice), so my experience is not that vast, but for me it hard to argue with
the comfort of not needeng to decide which gear to select before you drive
across a difficult patch. Just point it and go!
Overlanding is not so much about off-roading as long distance travel, hence
the
gearbox issue seems to be more important in the context of comfort,
reliability
and praticality of repairs rather than precise application of power. 80
series
auto boxes are pretty robust and need very little attention (except for
proper
cooling), so with the potential clutch problem out of the way, I think the
auto
box has more pluses than minuses.>
Jeremy,
Roman is quite right, autos are tough. Many moons ago, I was selling Toyota
new, in '93. Sold a 4.2 Auto VX to a guy who hauls s**t for a living with a
fleet of Volvo trucks, emptying chicken sheds and slurry etc. He did 130,000
miles in it and tried his best to kill it, without success.
His more notable efforts included:
Towing corn trailers (full) up the local dual carriageway with the ball &
hitch attachment when leading corn (guessing at around 5 tonne).
Driving it towing Bobcats and JCB buckets on a trailer during a busy period
non-stop, resulting in him using up all the rear brake pad material....and
the pad backing plate......and using the piston as a brake pad.....and then
he wondered why there was a brake fluid leak from the rear.....
Finally, recovering a 38 tonne artic from a muddy field with a couple of
strops, diff locks in and bags of revs. This resulted in the dreaded diff
lock warning light staying on - just a faulty relay.
After all that, he'd steam clean it off, jump in the leather seats and go
out for a meal.
He sold it a while ago, still running and with a few dashboard rattles, but
still up for a fight. I'd like to know if it's still alive.
Neill Watson
 
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G

Guest

Guest
Hi Roman
Its what I also said... back in the early days when I joined the other
list (at least 3 years ago) - remember me saying to you that inspite of
what people say, auto gearbox is brilliant, and as far as I am
concerned, I wouldn't choose manual over auto - give me auto any day of
the week.
I remember a swiss friend of mine who was interested in trying out my
80, as he'd driven landies and discoveries before then - he was curious
enough to take it on board in the Grand Erg in algeria, I got the
impression he was a little afraid and didn't trust it, but the Beast (my
4x4) proved him wrong. I said to him, consider getting one for your
next trips to Algeria but he shook his head and said he's stick to what
he knew...
Sad really, its not often I allow anyone to drive my 4x4, but he is a
freind of mine.
I remember sending in a posting about auto gearboxes to the other list
and I remember receiving a curt, and not that pleasant response saying
it will fail - of course, it hasn't, mind you I do have it checked out
severely before I go anywhere near a sand dune, but hey! I love them!
And they are my preferred means of transmission...
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 11/08/04 09:01pm >>>
Roman wrote:
<My LC is the first auto box vehicle I have ever had (more by
coincidence
than
choice), so my experience is not that vast, but for me it hard to argue
with
the comfort of not needeng to decide which gear to select before you
drive
across a difficult patch. Just point it and go!
Overlanding is not so much about off-roading as long distance travel,
hence
the
gearbox issue seems to be more important in the context of comfort,
reliability
and praticality of repairs rather than precise application of power.
80
series
auto boxes are pretty robust and need very little attention (except
for
proper
cooling), so with the potential clutch problem out of the way, I think
the
auto
box has more pluses than minuses.>
Jeremy,
Roman is quite right, autos are tough. Many moons ago, I was selling
Toyota
new, in '93. Sold a 4.2 Auto VX to a guy who hauls s**t for a living
with a
fleet of Volvo trucks, emptying chicken sheds and slurry etc. He did
130,000
miles in it and tried his best to kill it, without success.
His more notable efforts included:
Towing corn trailers (full) up the local dual carriageway with the ball
&
hitch attachment when leading corn (guessing at around 5 tonne).
Driving it towing Bobcats and JCB buckets on a trailer during a busy
period
non-stop, resulting in him using up all the rear brake pad
material....and
the pad backing plate......and using the piston as a brake pad.....and
then
he wondered why there was a brake fluid leak from the rear.....
Finally, recovering a 38 tonne artic from a muddy field with a couple
of
strops, diff locks in and bags of revs. This resulted in the dreaded
diff
lock warning light staying on - just a faulty relay.
After all that, he'd steam clean it off, jump in the leather seats and
go
out for a meal.
He sold it a while ago, still running and with a few dashboard rattles,
but
still up for a fight. I'd like to know if it's still alive.
Neill Watson
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jeremy
You won't need oil coolers...
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 11/08/04 08:53pm >>>
Thanks for this Roman. I'm sure for the kind of travel I intend in
Morocco
etc an auto box will be fine.
I appreciate your advice. There are more auto cars around than manual
and
I'll fit a couple of oil coolers...
Jeremy
On 8/11/04 20:29, "[Email address removed]"
<[Email address removed]>
wrote:
> Hello Jeremy,
>
> First of all, I think in the UK the 80 series market is too small to
snub a
> good offer if it comes your way, be it manual or auto box.
>
> My LC is the first auto box vehicle I have ever had (more by
coincidence than
> choice), so my experience is not that vast, but for me it hard to
argue with
> the comfort of not needeng to decide which gear to select before you
drive
> across a difficult patch. Just point it and go!
>
> Overlanding is not so much about off-roading as long distance travel,
hence
> the
> gearbox issue seems to be more important in the context of comfort,
> reliability
> and praticality of repairs rather than precise application of power.
80 series
> auto boxes are pretty robust and need very little attention (except
for proper
> cooling), so with the potential clutch problem out of the way, I
think the
> auto
> box has more pluses than minuses.
>
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
22a Alexandra Grove
London N4 2LF
Tel: 020 8800 4987
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
G

Guest

Guest
J
Choose auto every time....
R
>>> [Email address removed] 11/08/04 06:42pm >>>
Just wondered if anyone had thoughts on manual v auto boxes for series
80
vehicles. The car will be used in various places...UK, N Africa and
hopefully on a longer drive to east Africa... when I get one. I'd
prefer
auto but have had conversations with some who are adamant about
manual.
Roman I don't know if you're around but would be interested in your
thoughts
re overlanding and gearboxes.
Jeremy
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Renate,
But, it is highly recommended even on stock 80s used for school run -
they are renowned for running hot.
I would always choose an auto 80 over a manual, but you have to be
careful with them. As soon as the warning light comes on signifying a
fault, follow the diagnostic routine to identify the problem - if it is
a stuck valve, try flushing the oil - don't just change the oil
expecting the problem to go away as I was advised by the local Toyota
dealer, resulting in a ?2500 rebuild bill on my last 80.
Whilst the company that did the rebuild was very expensive (afterwards
heard of a company in Exeter that would have done it for ?600-900
depending on damage) they do all the auto gearbox work in the area.
Whilst they praised the 80 box as being very strong, they strongly
recommend fitting an extra oil cooler.
Going back to Jeremy, as I said on the phone yesterday, if you do want
to go for an Auto, you are limited to either 12valve UK spec vehicles
(90-early 95) or (95-97 24 valve) Japanese imports.
The Japanese ones are quite rare in the UK, particularly with diff
locks, however if you have the time and patience to look into importing
your own you can find Japanese ones with factory diff locks for a
reasonable price, and you also have the benefit of a few extra goodies
like retracting wing mirrors, and a few other gizmos.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian
I've not yet so far had any problems with overheating oil, not a sausage...are you hinting at the fact that ALL stock 80s overheat? one of the reasons why I chose a toyo over any other 4x4 was quite simply because they don't overheat.....its never ever done so, all pressure is always well below a half, and the temperature never goes above half on the guage! sorry, but I am disagreeing with this judgement because I have NEVER had an overheating problem! isn't overheating also to do with the state of the radiator components? these too have never given me ANY grief.. sorry guys, but I need to get this off my chest - in my experience it is just not true, take this any way you like...
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 11/09/04 10:00am >>>
Hi Renate,
> You won't need oil coolers...
But, it is highly recommended even on stock 80s used for school run -
they are renowned for running hot.
I would always choose an auto 80 over a manual, but you have to be
careful with them. As soon as the warning light comes on signifying a
fault, follow the diagnostic routine to identify the problem - if it is
a stuck valve, try flushing the oil - don't just change the oil
expecting the problem to go away as I was advised by the local Toyota
dealer, resulting in a =A32500 rebuild bill on my last 80.
Whilst the company that did the rebuild was very expensive (afterwards
heard of a company in Exeter that would have done it for =A3600-900
depending on damage) they do all the auto gearbox work in the area.
Whilst they praised the 80 box as being very strong, they strongly
recommend fitting an extra oil cooler.
Going back to Jeremy, as I said on the phone yesterday, if you do want
to go for an Auto, you are limited to either 12valve UK spec vehicles
(90-early 95) or (95-97 24 valve) Japanese imports.
The Japanese ones are quite rare in the UK, particularly with diff
locks, however if you have the time and patience to look into importing
your own you can find Japanese ones with factory diff locks for a
reasonable price, and you also have the benefit of a few extra goodies
like retracting wing mirrors, and a few other gizmos.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Renate,
Sorry if there is any confusion, I was referring to the fact that the
auto boxes on the 80 run very hot compared to other auto boxes (try
touching any of the metal brackets bolted into the gearbox tunnel on a
long run and you will see what I mean).
This in itself is not a major problem, however if you want to improve
longevity it is advisable to fit a bigger oil cooler (there is already
a small one along the bottom of the radiator) particularly if you are
going to do a lot of towing or sand driving - this is the advice from
the gearbox specialists in Gloucester as well as many users on the
various lists.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian
Okay, confusion seems to be the order of the day for me today, works a
bit stressful.
Apologies, however
I am aware of the heat generated; and have experience of this
personally, so now I know what you are on about, I'm quite happy with
your email content.
Okay, so, if a larger oil cooler is better than the one I already have,
can you give me an idea of costs and labour?
I will also ask a reputable garage what they would charge, I have a
garage in mind, and they've been extremely good to my Beast....
Renate
>>> [Email address removed] 11/09/04 10:40am >>>
Hi Renate,
> I've not yet so far had any problems with overheating oil, not a
> sausage...are you hinting at the fact that ALL stock 80s overheat?
Sorry if there is any confusion, I was referring to the fact that the
auto boxes on the 80 run very hot compared to other auto boxes (try
touching any of the metal brackets bolted into the gearbox tunnel on a
long run and you will see what I mean).
This in itself is not a major problem, however if you want to improve
longevity it is advisable to fit a bigger oil cooler (there is already
a small one along the bottom of the radiator) particularly if you are
going to do a lot of towing or sand driving - this is the advice from
the gearbox specialists in Gloucester as well as many users on the
various lists.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian
The various other lists - I've never been on them so I don't know what
they are about...
R
>>> [Email address removed] 11/09/04 10:40am >>>
Hi Renate,
> I've not yet so far had any problems with overheating oil, not a
> sausage...are you hinting at the fact that ALL stock 80s overheat?
Sorry if there is any confusion, I was referring to the fact that the
auto boxes on the 80 run very hot compared to other auto boxes (try
touching any of the metal brackets bolted into the gearbox tunnel on a
long run and you will see what I mean).
This in itself is not a major problem, however if you want to improve
longevity it is advisable to fit a bigger oil cooler (there is already
a small one along the bottom of the radiator) particularly if you are
going to do a lot of towing or sand driving - this is the advice from
the gearbox specialists in Gloucester as well as many users on the
various lists.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Renate,
As a guide I would say about ?100 + VAT will get you an oil cooler kit
and then maybe an hour to fit and some extra AT oil, unless you are
going to fit it at an oil change time.
Take a look at http://www.thinkauto.com/ and follow the links to their
shop and then Auto Transmission cooler kits.
It is generally recommended to fit either in front of the radiator (if
not fitting an intercooler or between the chassis rails below the fan,
although you can actually fit them anywhere in the engine bay - just
having the cooler with little air flow will make quite a difference.
With new oil coolers, fit all the pipework together (off vehicle) and
try to flush it through thoroughly to clear out any stray bits of metal
from manufacturer - if you cannot do this, fit it, but then plan to
flush the box and change the filter within a 1000 miles or so - I have
in the past found lumps of swarf falling out of a new oil cooler I was
about to fit to a vehicle.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Renate,
Don't worry there are a few out there.
One very useful resource is the Birfield.com website - if you follow
the link on the left to Archives you will be presented with a number of
mailing lists, from there you can do keyword searches on any of the
main LC list archives - it is a little slow, but worth the effort.
Also the text can be a little small to read, but you can increase the
font size via the View menu in your browser.
Dtlc - covers mainly diesel engine stuff
80scool - for 80 series owners
lcml - good for most LCs with a lot for 40 series owners.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Can't say anything about overland travel. But travel on mountains and rough
country yes.
I would go manual every time, when on narrow mountain roads - sometimes in
snow - just going forward, let alone inching or maneuvering on bends or
turning round, one needs full control. An auto pulling at you unless you
have a foot firmly on the brake is not safe.
Apart from my 80 I also had an ex UN 4Runner b4 that. With very few
exceptions the UN always have manual boxes, and they know a thing or two
about running in rough country. Yes, they had a few auto 4Runners (their
standard 4X4 wherever they work) and they appeared mostly to be staff cars
which never got into the rough stuff where their field staff work. When
they sold-off about 5000 vehicles when they left here, looking through the
sales catalogues I rarely saw an auto, except for their odd Winnebago
campers. (UN ---- conflict------Winnebago's ------- camping ?)
Anyway, I would also have selectable 4WD and a selectable low ratio box
too. We had a Rav 4 in our office once - ha ha ha ha.
Cheers
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN surplus in Bosnia.
 
G

Guest

Guest
'Have to say I agree with you Jon.
Call me old-fashioned-But
At least you have a choice and complete control with a manual.
Cheers
Dermot
----- Original Message -----
From: "toy80" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Manual/auto
 
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