Rear bumper

G

Guest

Guest
A few questions :-
~Snorkel on a petrol FJ80.. worth it? for MPG and performance or a waste of
cash ?
And a rear bumper, someone on the list posted a link for a website to a Uk
company who was making a bumper, I want to move the rear wheel out and put
it on the back (UK model) any ideas on the best way to do this ?, can you
buy the parts and modify the stock bumper or buy a new replacement one for
reasonable money, I already have a towbar fitted, just want to move the
wheel out form underneath
Hope the salisbury meet is on, I cant wait to try my mine off properly.
Regards

Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] Sent: 02 October 2006 18:14
Subject: [ELCO Digest]
** To reply to any of the messages below, create a new message and address
it to [Email address removed] and then copy across the subject line of the
message you are replying to - this will help to maintain the context and
threading. If you forget to do this you are less likely to receive a reply.
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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 18:51:50 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Lubomir,
Independent front suspension.
80 series have a SFA - solid front axle, 100 series are more like
normal road cars with a central diff and then the two front wheels
moving independently of each other.
The IFS provides a smoother ride on and off road however you don't get
the articulation that you get with a fixed front axle which is
generally only required with severe off roading conditions.
Most 90, 100 and 120 series LC are IFS, although there are exceptions
like the 105, which is a 3rd world version of the 100 series with solid
axles front and rear.
At the back end the 90, 100 and 120s have solid axles like the 80
series.
A few people in the 4x4 world believe a 4x4 with IFS is a 'poofter'
choice (to coin Reno's phrase), however there are drivers out in Aus,
the US etc who are happily disproving this theory by tackiling some of
the extreme outback trails in Aus or hard trails in the US like the
Rubicon and easily keeping up with, and in some places doing better
than older vehicles with solid front axles.
I guess it just comes down to the driver's abilities ;-)
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 19:04:24 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
From: "Alan" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] Fender flares
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Reno asked
OK guys, anybody know where I can buy flexible fender flares to replace the=3D
Rigid breakable stock flares on my 80 ???

I was looking for something else and discovered some on good old e-bay,
being sold in Australia.
www.the4wdshop.com.au was the web address given to go and have a look.
sellers ID was the4wdshop

the flares were a rubbery extension and I thought they looked pretty good!
so much so that I book marked the page. Cost about =A338 + carriage, worked
out around =A370 all in.

best regards
Alan

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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:31:46 +0100
From: Graham & Lucinda Smith <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] Tow Hitch Info
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi All
This is my first post to this interesting group. On Wednesday I became
the very proud owner of a 1994 HDJ80 with a mere 66 000 miles on the
clock. What a fine vehicle!!!
My first question:
Is the standard rear bumper ( mine has 4 holes in it) strong enough to
use for towing a trailer? My trailer has a Tare of 380kg and a GVM of
1500kg, however I can never imagine how I could get this huge weight on
it. Use will include off-road, possibly some severe off-road use.
I am planning on getting a tow ball and simply bolting it through a pair of these holes with high tensile bolts.... is this a cheap and quick way to problems?
Any advice appreciated
Regards
Graham
Poole, Dorset.
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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:30:42 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Tow Hitch Info
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Graham,
You can bolt a tow hook to the four holes in the chassis rails, but I
don't think it's rated for serious towing and have heard stories of it
bending so you are advised to get a proper tow bar from someone like
Witter that bolts on to the bottom of the main chassis rails running
along the length of the car as well as utilising those four bolt holes.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:30:01 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Tow Hitch Info
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi,
If you fit a hook there you'll be pulling with the crossmember. A
proper towing/recovery attachment is bolted to the two longtitudinal
sections of the chassis frame, each side of the crossmember.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] what's that 'IFS'?
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:52:06 +0200
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
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format=3Dflowed
Thanks Julian ;-))))))))))
cheers
Lubo
On Oct 1, 2006, at 7:51 PM, Julian Voelcker wrote:
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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space;
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Thanks Julian
;-))))))))))<DIV>cheers</DIV><DIV><BR
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Lubo
<DIV><DIV>On Oct 1, 2006,
at 7:51 PM, Julian Voelcker wrote:</DIV><BR
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BLOCKQUOTE
type=3D"cite"><P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px"><FONT
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">what's that
'IFS'?</FONT></P> </BLOCKQUOTE><P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;
font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px">
</P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px
Helvetica">Independent front suspension</FONT></P>
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
</DIV></BODY></HTML>
--Apple-Mail-1--1053383063--
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Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 05:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
JV> ... previous post with a contentious quote of a religious nature in it =3D
and then the latest one of a US biased political nature which just isn't ap=3D
propriate.=3D0A=3D0AWhoa. So you're not talking about quotes at all. You're t=3D
alking about the content of one's sig file. If you judge some inappropriat=3D
e then you have two obvious choices. =3D0A1) It's my list so do as I say. S=3D
ome net communities use this obey or leave policy.=3D0A2) Implement policy to=3D
regulate content, communicate the policy then inforce it. =3D0A=3D0AChoice 1 =3D
is probably not your style, rather choice 2 could be a great tool for build=3D
ing community harmony. I think we all grokked your policy about thread hij=3D
acking and we've stopped being naughty in that regard. =3D0A=3D0AI'd propose a=3D
policy that requires all member signatures (or sig files) to contain only =3D
content that pertains to 4x4s. Period. Or something along those lines. T=3D
hen nobody would post anything political or religious, which seem to be two=3D
hot buttons for you. And nobody would feel that they were being unreasona=3D
ble persecuted for expressing their political or religous beliefs. You do =3D
have free speech laws in the UK I assume (don't know much about your laws).=3D
=3D0A=3D0AWhat say?=3D0A=3D0A =3D0ACeferino Lamb =3D0A=3D0A"Going 4 wheeling without Fren=3D
ch food is like a day without sunshine"
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 05:22:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: converting 100s from IFS to solid axle -- WAS [ELCO] Cruiser
weight? - Crash test results.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
JV>When was the last time you drove an IFS 4x4 seriously?=3D0A=3D0AI have never=3D
owned one. Ooops, I did own an Acura with IFS for a year or so, but it wa=3D
s wifey's car and I only took it offroad once. It was OK on the road.=3D0A =3D
=3D0AJV>What sort of driving would you (be) doing to require the additional b=3D
enefit of the full articulation of the front axle, which is one of the only=3D
areas where a solid front axle is preferred.=3D0A=3D0AThat's not entirely true=3D
. You've missed one very important advantage of SFA - durability. An IFS =3D
is full of links and bushes (bushings) that do wear out and do suffer if yo=3D
u hit an obstacle. An SFA has fewer links and bushes to wear, and they are=3D
typically in a protected location above or behind the solid axle, at least=3D
on 4x4s such as 80s and Land Rovers. =3D0A=3D0AI can drive my Rangie thru a f=3D
ield of tree stumps at low speed and the worst thing I risk is hanging up a=3D
nd losing traction. An IFS vehicle would be more likely to break or bend s=3D
uspension or steering components. Nobody drives thru a field of tree stump=3D
s very often, but the stumps are representative of obstacles at varying hei=3D
ghts and locations. It so happens that where I live and 'wheel, we do have=3D
a lot of stumps hidden by overgrowth. I don't drive my 80 there much beca=3D
use my birfields need renewing but once that's done my 80 will also see for=3D
est 'wheeling.=3D0A=3D0ACeferino Lamb
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 05:37:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
JV>A few people in the 4x4 world believe a 4x4 with IFS is a 'poofter' cho=3D
ice (to coin Reno's phrase), =3D0A=3D0AThere are more than a few of us. Poofte=3D
r was supposed to be a humourous note. It's from an old Monty Python skit.=3D
=3D0A=3D0AJV>...however there are drivers out in Aus, the US etc who are happil=3D
y disproving this theory by tackiling some of the extreme outback trails in=3D
Aus or hard trails in the US like the Rubicon and easily keeping up with, =3D
and in some places doing better than older vehicles with solid front axles.=3D
=3D0A=3D0ACan you help us learn more about this trend? I'm subscribed to almos=3D
t all the French 4x4 mags, and Four Wheeler in the US. I see reports of so=3D
me newer IFS vehicles getting much better in stock form, as you say, due to=3D
electronics and hydraulic suspension leveling. =3D0A=3D0ABut the articles I s=3D
ee on events at Moab or in outback Oz rarely show any IFS vehicles in actio=3D
n. The vehicles featured there are heavily modified with aftermarket parts=3D
to tackle extreme trails and they almost all sport solid axles F+R. There=3D
is a sizeable market in the US for kits to convert IFS vehicles such as Am=3D
erican pickups and Toyotas to SFA.=3D0A=3D0AOf course we could consider events =3D
like Paris Dakar and sure, we'll see new IFS Toyotas and Mitsus in action. =3D
But those teams have incredible budgets and huge trucks full of spare part=3D
s following them around. That's not our league.=3D0A=3D0A =3D0ACeferino Lamb
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:58:23 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
You do have free speech laws in the UK I assume (don't
Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We certainly do have free speech in the UK...........
.............. just so long as what you say doesn't offend our political
masters or the PC brigagde, if you do you get arrested on anti-terrorism
charges!!!!!
Pete
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: "Chas" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:04:26 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Careful Peter, you're sailing close to the wind mentioning politics. Lol
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
political
anti-terrorism
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Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:07:45 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
On 10/2/06, Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]> wrote:
see
new IFS Toyotas and Mitsus in action. But those teams have incredible
budgets and huge trucks full of spare parts following them around. That's
not our league.
Reno,
The cars used for rock climbing and Paris-Dakar are completely
different things. What they definitely have in common is this - four
wheels, but certainly not suspension They are bult and used in
entirely difrerent ways, Therefore, IFS used on the P-D rally bears
little if any relevance to the robustness of this type of suspension
in other conditions. The better P-D vehicles are even 2WD.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:10:50 +0200
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
It smells
antisemitismmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lubo
On Oct 2, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Chas wrote:
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From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:24:59 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Ooops, sorry! :)
Pete
Lol
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:30:29 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Reno,
If you monitor the LCool 100 and 120 series lists as well as even
ih8mud you will soon come across a stack of Aussies and Yanks talking
about taking their IFS LC across the outback ar to Moab or the Rubicon.
Yes, the 100s and 120s need some work done to them to make them as
capable as the other vehicles going on those routes, but few if any of
them are stock as well.
Also the latter 100s etc have leant towards electronics and hydraulic
style suspension like the active suspension, but generally best to pull
that off if you want it to be truly capable.
Don't worry, it is a learning curve. I had several strips taken off me
on the 100 list when I, like you, some time ago naively suggested that
IFS =3D not capable. Not only was I given numerous examples proving me
wrong, but then when I think about it most of the local game keepers
and farmers are predominantly using ISUZU Troopers and Hiluxes around
here and put them through their paces every day and they are all IFS.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:39:25 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Helo guys,
Lets' be realistic - this is a common policy across the whole spectrum
of internet based fora and user groups. It stems from many years of
experience - mixing issues concering politics, religion, race and
suchlike with non-related subjects, such as technology, has never
worked and I don't suppose ELCO is going to be an exception. This is
what makes the internet so dry and boring, but so very, very useful
for finding factual info.
In my view there's no point arguing with Julian about that, so let's
cut it off as he's asked us to do.
How about a pub meet that was mentioned the other day by Chas?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]> wrote:
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From: "Chas" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:48:01 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Roman,
I'm still up for a meet-up somewhere, I've had a word with the club manager
where the Twickenham Off-Roaders meet and he says fine, so all we need now
is a date, as I am off work at the moment any date not between 18th & 22nd
Oct would be fine for me.
The actual address is;
The Grasshoppers Rugby Football Club
MacFarlane Lane
Off Syon Lane
Osterley
Middlesex
TW7 5PN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
antisemitismmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:32:35 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Reno,
The list rules are pretty straight forward:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/list_rules.html
I can't be bothered to write an extensive list of rules however the
first one covers most of what we have discussed over the last couple of
days.
And this isn't just a wrist slap to you with the quotes in your
signature, Peter should never have posted up the follow up article
which just enflamed the issue.
I would also like to point out that I have had several complaints off
list about this issue along with requests to remove offendors, but as
long as we can drop this issue now and move on I don't think that is
necessary.
If anyone wished to discuss this further please take it off list and
drop a line directly.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:32:36 +0100
Subject: Re: converting 100s from IFS to solid axle -- WAS [ELCO] Cruiser
weight? - Crash test results.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Reno,
At the end of the day it all comes down to balance.
The IFS do have one or two more bushes, etc, however on the plus side
you better ride comfort on and off road.
And whilst with a SFA vehicle you have a nice big lump of metal called
the axle to hide things behind, the IFS vehicles don't have that
getting in the way because their diff tends to be tucked up a bit
higher.
OK, obviously the lower arms are vulnerable on an IFS vehicle, however
on the flip side their steering geometry is tucked up out of the way,
unlike on a SFA that has it hanging out the front looking for a tree
stump.
For each issue, there is a counter issue for either setup.
At the end of the day it will come to personal preferences and personal
requirements.
I personally have been through the discussions and cannot see any
reason not to go for an IFS vehicle for the sort of driving I'll be
doing here an abroad.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:48:18 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [OT] - pub meet in Osterley
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
On 10/2/06, Chas <[Email address removed]> wrote:
manager
now
Chas,
I have no problems with any dates during the next month except 6-10
and 27 - 30.
Who else is coming?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:15:01 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
It shall be so.
Sorry to any that took offence at the article I posted; it's a relatively
old and public domain article that I think is bang on the money and it was a
spur of the moment decision to post it in follow up to the preceding mails.
However, it has turned out to be inappropriate apparently and therefore I
apologize.
I will ask though, where now is the line drawn? Is the list to be restricted
to 100% only off-road / landcruiser content? If not then, as I said, where
is the line? This is not a flippant comment, some jokes may offend some
people, an innocent comment may have unthought-of political / religious
ramifications for some people or groups, etc.
There is nothing about the article that I posted for example that appears to
be in breach of the forum rules as posted here:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/list_rules.html
It wasn't impolite or disrespectful to anyone, just an honest assessment of
the state of the world today.
So, serious question - what can and cannot be raised as subject matter or
discussed on here? I'm not trying to stir things but I do like to post, and
to read light hearted comments from time to time and don't want to
accidentally ignite any more flame wars.
Pete
of
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:40:38 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
I've been silent to date on this issue.
These are my thoughts.
Primarily this a site for and about Land cruisers and the technical issues
that interest us as owners. To me this includes car problems, overlanding,
off-roading, satnav, etc - all stuff that is relevant to us as owners of
these cars.
relatively
I took offence and I know of no one who would think it was 'bang on the
money.'
restricted
I think Julian has already answered this. Until the postings last week, this
was certainly the case.
assessment
of
I found it to be disrespectful and far from an honest assessment of the
state of the world I live in. And not for this list.
Jeremy
HDJ81 that was called a Technical by a traffic warden this morning...
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [OT] - pub meet in Osterley
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:47:51 +0100
From: "Simon Hughes" <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
I'm in
All the best
=3D20
=3D20
Simon Hughes
'93 TLC 80
Tel: 020 7549 3663
Mobile: 07973 288061
Mail: [Email address removed]
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:48:50 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [OT] - pub meet in Osterley
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
I can't do anything until end of the first week of November but would love
to meet up.
Jeremy
HDJ81 ++
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:59:31 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
OK Jeremy, then I'm very sorry that you found the article offensive.
I've already stated that it was a "mistake" to post it and have apologized.
I agree that this list is predominantly for landcruiser related content but
we have had posts that can be described as "friendly banter" with no 4x4
content in the past so I don't think that my question about permitted
content is inappropriate. All sorts of things can be offensive to some
people that others would find totally innocuous.
I agree it's clear on reflection that overt political or religious musings
are not appropriate for this list but then is a discussion of the political
situation and, say, potential terrorist threat in, oh I don't know,
somewhere that someone might want to overland to, Algeria maybe
inappropriate?
So then.... no jokes, no banter, no mention of Land Rovers or Nissan
Patrols, no mention of religion or race in whatever context... just
Landcruisers then?
Pete
issues
overlanding,
of
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: "Chas" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:15:07 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
For fear of raising someone's hackles, I shall mention a 'rude' word, Land
Rover, or two words. I went to Brighton yesterday for the Land Rover Owners
Club gathering and they wouldn't let me in because I was driving a
Landcruiser. So I had to park on the street and consequently got a parking
ticket because I didn't realise Brighton charges for parking on a Sunday. I
did manage to buy a set of X-eng's Xlite spots
http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Lite.asp?MID=3D43 at a show discount though, and very
neat little spots they are too.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
content
4x4
musings
of
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:32:27 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hello Chas,
I'm not totally surprised about you LR experience. Bet you weren't
dressed in camo?
About the X-eng lamps - what are they good for? Could they be used as
reversing/work lamps?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Chas <[Email address removed]> wrote:
Land
Owners
parking
Sunday.
I
and
very
content
4x4
permitted
some
musings
owners
of
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:45:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Peter,
assessment
of
You need to remember that this list covers a multitude of political and
religious boundaries and whilst stating your own beliefs isn't really an issues (as I'm quite open about being pro shooting and hunting, which I know
some/many may not be) this isn't the place to pushing your views on others.
You believe that the article was 'bang on the nail' however that is your
view
and one that I know isn't shared by many others. The fact that your post
came
across as 'preaching' your vein and on that basis I think it is
inappropriate.
In the same vein it would be innappropriate for me to post articles written
by
the Countryside Alliance (a British Pro countryside, Hunting and Shooting
lobby group for those that don't know).
However posting information about political issues like the NERC bill would
be
relevant because it is something that relates to what the list is about.
It is a very fine line and always best to just follow the common sense rule
of
avoiding religion and politics - that way you are unlikely to cause any
offense.
But surely in that instance you would be stating facts about the situation
which would be OK rather than going in to the rights or wrongs.
Come on Peter, it's just a case of being sensible about it.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:53:36 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Pete
I think you know what is meant.

musings
political
There are plenty of forums out there that deal with this kind of thing. Try
Chris Scott's on the Horizons Unlimited site.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:56:04 +0100
Subject: [ELCO] Lights for my roofrack
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Interested to see Chas your web site re the X Lites.
I'm looking for some spots to put on my roofrack and would like some
recommendations.
Also be interested to know how people have dealt with the cabling.
The one thing I am concerned about is keeping the light off the bonnet
without illuminating the Atlas mts next time ~I'm over there.
Jeremy
HDj81 etc etc
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:13:45 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Lights for my roofrack
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Jeremy,
I have a mixture of spot and wide angle Lightforce lamps
I tried keeping the lamps as far back as possible, that is as far as
the roofrack allows, but I'm not quite happy with the result. I guess
if it's a pencil beam you don't get much illumination, if it's wide
beam you get reflections. The bonnet is not a big problem if it's
covered with dust, but the windscreen is.
Wiring - I havea MIL connector on the roof allowing removal of the
roofrack together with the lamps. I drilled a hole in the roof just
above the A-post to fit the socket and ran the wiring in a convoluted
tubing along the A-post on the inside.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]> wrote:
ELCOInfo.html
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Adrian,
It was me that posted that link http://www.kent-metalworks.co.uk/ he has
actually changed the sites address now, if you can mail me at
[Email address removed] I will send you pics of my rear bumper if you are
interested. The bumper has some drawbacks in that it rubs on the lower part
of the bumper when you open it, but I had a chat with the guy and he will
incorporate any improvements as they crop up.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: [ELCO] Rear bumper
A few questions :-
~Snorkel on a petrol FJ80.. worth it? for MPG and performance or a waste of
cash ?
And a rear bumper, someone on the list posted a link for a website to a Uk
company who was making a bumper, I want to move the rear wheel out and put
it on the back (UK model) any ideas on the best way to do this ?, can you
buy the parts and modify the stock bumper or buy a new replacement one for
reasonable money, I already have a towbar fitted, just want to move the
wheel out form underneath
Hope the salisbury meet is on, I cant wait to try my mine off properly.
Regards
Adrian
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
Sent: 02 October 2006 18:14
Subject: [ELCO Digest]
** To reply to any of the messages below, create a new message and address
it to [Email address removed] and then copy across the subject line of the
message you are replying to - this will help to maintain the context and
threading. If you forget to do this you are less likely to receive a reply.
**=======================================================================Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 18:51:50 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Lubomir,
Independent front suspension.
80 series have a SFA - solid front axle, 100 series are more like
normal road cars with a central diff and then the two front wheels
moving independently of each other.
The IFS provides a smoother ride on and off road however you don't get
the articulation that you get with a fixed front axle which is
generally only required with severe off roading conditions.
Most 90, 100 and 120 series LC are IFS, although there are exceptions
like the 105, which is a 3rd world version of the 100 series with solid
axles front and rear.
At the back end the 90, 100 and 120s have solid axles like the 80
series.
A few people in the 4x4 world believe a 4x4 with IFS is a 'poofter'
choice (to coin Reno's phrase), however there are drivers out in Aus,
the US etc who are happily disproving this theory by tackiling some of
the extreme outback trails in Aus or hard trails in the US like the
Rubicon and easily keeping up with, and in some places doing better
than older vehicles with solid front axles.
I guess it just comes down to the driver's abilities ;-)
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=======================================================================Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 19:04:24 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
From: "Alan" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] Fender flares
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Reno asked
OK guys, anybody know where I can buy flexible fender flares to replace the Rigid breakable stock flares on my 80 ???
I was looking for something else and discovered some on good old e-bay,
being sold in Australia.
www.the4wdshop.com.au was the web address given to go and have a look.
sellers ID was the4wdshop
the flares were a rubbery extension and I thought they looked pretty good!
so much so that I book marked the page. Cost about ?38 + carriage, worked
out around ?70 all in.
best regards
Alan
=======================================================================Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:31:46 +0100
From: Graham & Lucinda Smith <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] Tow Hitch Info
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi All
This is my first post to this interesting group. On Wednesday I became
the very proud owner of a 1994 HDJ80 with a mere 66 000 miles on the
clock. What a fine vehicle!!!
My first question:
Is the standard rear bumper ( mine has 4 holes in it) strong enough to
use for towing a trailer? My trailer has a Tare of 380kg and a GVM of
1500kg, however I can never imagine how I could get this huge weight on
it. Use will include off-road, possibly some severe off-road use.
I am planning on getting a tow ball and simply bolting it through a pair
of these holes with high tensile bolts.... is this a cheap and quick way
to problems?
Any advice appreciated
Regards
Graham
Poole, Dorset.
=======================================================================Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:30:42 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Tow Hitch Info
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Graham,
You can bolt a tow hook to the four holes in the chassis rails, but I
don't think it's rated for serious towing and have heard stories of it
bending so you are advised to get a proper tow bar from someone like
Witter that bolts on to the bottom of the main chassis rails running
along the length of the car as well as utilising those four bolt holes.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:30:01 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Tow Hitch Info
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi,
If you fit a hook there you'll be pulling with the crossmember. A
proper towing/recovery attachment is bolted to the two longtitudinal
sections of the chassis frame, each side of the crossmember.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
=======================================================================From: Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]>
Subject: [ELCO] what's that 'IFS'?
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:52:06 +0200
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
--Apple-Mail-1--1053383063
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed
Thanks Julian ;-))))))))))
cheers
Lubo
On Oct 1, 2006, at 7:51 PM, Julian Voelcker wrote:
--Apple-Mail-1--1053383063
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=US-ASCII
<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space;
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Thanks Julian
;-))))))))))<DIV>cheers</DIV><DIV><BR
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Lubo
<DIV><DIV>On Oct 1, 2006,
at 7:51 PM, Julian Voelcker wrote:</DIV><BR
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE
type="cite"><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px"><FONT
face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">what's that
'IFS'?</FONT></P> </BLOCKQUOTE><P style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;
font: 12.0px Helvetica; min-height: 14.0px">
</P> <P style="margin: 0.0px
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px
Helvetica">Independent front suspension</FONT></P>
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
</DIV></BODY></HTML>
--Apple-Mail-1--1053383063--
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 05:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
JV> ... previous post with a contentious quote of a religious nature in it and then the latest one of a US biased political nature which just isn't appropriate.=0A=0AWhoa. So you're not talking about quotes at all. You're talking about the content of one's sig file. If you judge some inappropriate then you have two obvious choices. =0A1) It's my list so do as I say. Some net communities use this obey or leave policy.=0A2) Implement policy to regulate content, communicate the policy then inforce it. =0A=0AChoice 1 is probably not your style, rather choice 2 could be a great tool for building community harmony. I think we all grokked your policy about thread hijacking and we've stopped being naughty in that regard. =0A=0AI'd propose a policy that requires all member signatures (or sig files) to contain only content that pertains to 4x4s. Period. Or something along those lines. Then nobody would post anything political or religious, which seem to be two hot buttons for you. And nobody would feel that they were being unreasonable persecuted for expressing their political or religous beliefs. You do have free speech laws in the UK I assume (don't know much about your laws).=0A=0AWhat say?=0A=0A =0ACeferino Lamb =0A=0A"Going 4 wheeling without French food is like a day without sunshine"
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 05:22:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: converting 100s from IFS to solid axle -- WAS [ELCO] Cruiser
weight? - Crash test results.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
JV>When was the last time you drove an IFS 4x4 seriously?=0A=0AI have never owned one. Ooops, I did own an Acura with IFS for a year or so, but it was wifey's car and I only took it offroad once. It was OK on the road.=0A =0AJV>What sort of driving would you (be) doing to require the additional benefit of the full articulation of the front axle, which is one of the only areas where a solid front axle is preferred.=0A=0AThat's not entirely true. You've missed one very important advantage of SFA - durability. An IFS is full of links and bushes (bushings) that do wear out and do suffer if you hit an obstacle. An SFA has fewer links and bushes to wear, and they are typically in a protected location above or behind the solid axle, at least on 4x4s such as 80s and Land Rovers. =0A=0AI can drive my Rangie thru a field of tree stumps at low speed and the worst thing I risk is hanging up and losing traction. An IFS vehicle would be more likely to break or bend suspension or steering components. Nobody drives thru a field of tree stumps very often, but the stumps are representative of obstacles at varying heights and locations. It so happens that where I live and 'wheel, we do have a lot of stumps hidden by overgrowth. I don't drive my 80 there much because my birfields need renewing but once that's done my 80 will also see forest 'wheeling.=0A=0ACeferino Lamb
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 05:37:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
JV>A few people in the 4x4 world believe a 4x4 with IFS is a 'poofter' choice (to coin Reno's phrase), =0A=0AThere are more than a few of us. Poofter was supposed to be a humourous note. It's from an old Monty Python skit.=0A=0AJV>...however there are drivers out in Aus, the US etc who are happily disproving this theory by tackiling some of the extreme outback trails in Aus or hard trails in the US like the Rubicon and easily keeping up with, and in some places doing better than older vehicles with solid front axles.=0A=0ACan you help us learn more about this trend? I'm subscribed to almost all the French 4x4 mags, and Four Wheeler in the US. I see reports of some newer IFS vehicles getting much better in stock form, as you say, due to electronics and hydraulic suspension leveling. =0A=0ABut the articles I see on events at Moab or in outback Oz rarely show any IFS vehicles in action. The vehicles featured there are heavily modified with aftermarket parts to tackle extreme trails and they almost all sport solid axles F+R. There is a sizeable market in the US for kits to convert IFS vehicles such as American pickups and Toyotas to SFA.=0A=0AOf course we could consider events like Paris Dakar and sure, we'll see new IFS Toyotas and Mitsus in action. But those teams have incredible budgets and huge trucks full of spare parts following them around. That's not our league.=0A=0A =0ACeferino Lamb
=======================================================================From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:58:23 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
You do have free speech laws in the UK I assume (don't
Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We certainly do have free speech in the UK...........
.............. just so long as what you say doesn't offend our political
masters or the PC brigagde, if you do you get arrested on anti-terrorism
charges!!!!!
Pete
=======================================================================From: "Chas" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:04:26 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Careful Peter, you're sailing close to the wind mentioning politics. Lol
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:07:45 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
On 10/2/06, Reno Lamb <[Email address removed]> wrote:
new IFS Toyotas and Mitsus in action. But those teams have incredible
budgets and huge trucks full of spare parts following them around. That's
not our league.
Reno,
The cars used for rock climbing and Paris-Dakar are completely
different things. What they definitely have in common is this - four
wheels, but certainly not suspension They are bult and used in
entirely difrerent ways, Therefore, IFS used on the P-D rally bears
little if any relevance to the robustness of this type of suspension
in other conditions. The better P-D vehicles are even 2WD.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
=======================================================================From: Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:10:50 +0200
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
It smells
antisemitismmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lubo
On Oct 2, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Chas wrote:
=======================================================================From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:24:59 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Ooops, sorry! :)
Pete
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:30:29 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Cruiser weight? - Crash test results.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Reno,
If you monitor the LCool 100 and 120 series lists as well as even
ih8mud you will soon come across a stack of Aussies and Yanks talking
about taking their IFS LC across the outback ar to Moab or the Rubicon.
Yes, the 100s and 120s need some work done to them to make them as
capable as the other vehicles going on those routes, but few if any of
them are stock as well.
Also the latter 100s etc have leant towards electronics and hydraulic
style suspension like the active suspension, but generally best to pull
that off if you want it to be truly capable.
Don't worry, it is a learning curve. I had several strips taken off me
on the 100 list when I, like you, some time ago naively suggested that
IFS = not capable. Not only was I given numerous examples proving me
wrong, but then when I think about it most of the local game keepers
and farmers are predominantly using ISUZU Troopers and Hiluxes around
here and put them through their paces every day and they are all IFS.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:39:25 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Helo guys,
Lets' be realistic - this is a common policy across the whole spectrum
of internet based fora and user groups. It stems from many years of
experience - mixing issues concering politics, religion, race and
suchlike with non-related subjects, such as technology, has never
worked and I don't suppose ELCO is going to be an exception. This is
what makes the internet so dry and boring, but so very, very useful
for finding factual info.
In my view there's no point arguing with Julian about that, so let's
cut it off as he's asked us to do.
How about a pub meet that was mentioned the other day by Chas?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]> wrote:
=======================================================================From: "Chas" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:48:01 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Roman,
I'm still up for a meet-up somewhere, I've had a word with the club manager
where the Twickenham Off-Roaders meet and he says fine, so all we need now
is a date, as I am off work at the moment any date not between 18th & 22nd
Oct would be fine for me.
The actual address is;
The Grasshoppers Rugby Football Club
MacFarlane Lane
Off Syon Lane
Osterley
Middlesex
TW7 5PN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:32:35 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Reno,
The list rules are pretty straight forward:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/list_rules.html
I can't be bothered to write an extensive list of rules however the
first one covers most of what we have discussed over the last couple of
days.
And this isn't just a wrist slap to you with the quotes in your
signature, Peter should never have posted up the follow up article
which just enflamed the issue.
I would also like to point out that I have had several complaints off
list about this issue along with requests to remove offendors, but as
long as we can drop this issue now and move on I don't think that is
necessary.
If anyone wished to discuss this further please take it off list and
drop a line directly.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:32:36 +0100
Subject: Re: converting 100s from IFS to solid axle -- WAS [ELCO] Cruiser
weight? - Crash test results.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Reno,
At the end of the day it all comes down to balance.
The IFS do have one or two more bushes, etc, however on the plus side
you better ride comfort on and off road.
And whilst with a SFA vehicle you have a nice big lump of metal called
the axle to hide things behind, the IFS vehicles don't have that
getting in the way because their diff tends to be tucked up a bit
higher.
OK, obviously the lower arms are vulnerable on an IFS vehicle, however
on the flip side their steering geometry is tucked up out of the way,
unlike on a SFA that has it hanging out the front looking for a tree
stump.
For each issue, there is a counter issue for either setup.
At the end of the day it will come to personal preferences and personal
requirements.
I personally have been through the discussions and cannot see any
reason not to go for an IFS vehicle for the sort of driving I'll be
doing here an abroad.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 15:48:18 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [OT] - pub meet in Osterley
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
On 10/2/06, Chas <[Email address removed]> wrote:
manager
Chas,
I have no problems with any dates during the next month except 6-10
and 27 - 30.
Who else is coming?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
=======================================================================From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:15:01 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
It shall be so.
Sorry to any that took offence at the article I posted; it's a relatively
old and public domain article that I think is bang on the money and it was a
spur of the moment decision to post it in follow up to the preceding mails.
However, it has turned out to be inappropriate apparently and therefore I
apologize.
I will ask though, where now is the line drawn? Is the list to be restricted
to 100% only off-road / landcruiser content? If not then, as I said, where
is the line? This is not a flippant comment, some jokes may offend some
people, an innocent comment may have unthought-of political / religious
ramifications for some people or groups, etc.
There is nothing about the article that I posted for example that appears to
be in breach of the forum rules as posted here:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/list_rules.html
It wasn't impolite or disrespectful to anyone, just an honest assessment of
the state of the world today.
So, serious question - what can and cannot be raised as subject matter or
discussed on here? I'm not trying to stir things but I do like to post, and
to read light hearted comments from time to time and don't want to
accidentally ignite any more flame wars.
Pete
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:40:38 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
I've been silent to date on this issue.
These are my thoughts.
Primarily this a site for and about Land cruisers and the technical issues
that interest us as owners. To me this includes car problems, overlanding,
off-roading, satnav, etc - all stuff that is relevant to us as owners of
these cars.
I took offence and I know of no one who would think it was 'bang on the
money.'
restricted
I think Julian has already answered this. Until the postings last week, this
was certainly the case.
of
I found it to be disrespectful and far from an honest assessment of the
state of the world I live in. And not for this list.
Jeremy
HDJ81 that was called a Technical by a traffic warden this morning...
=======================================================================Subject: RE: [ELCO] [OT] - pub meet in Osterley
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:47:51 +0100
From: "Simon Hughes" <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
I'm in
All the best


Simon Hughes
'93 TLC 80
Tel: 020 7549 3663
Mobile: 07973 288061
Mail: [Email address removed]
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:48:50 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [OT] - pub meet in Osterley
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
I can't do anything until end of the first week of November but would love
to meet up.
Jeremy
HDJ81 ++
=======================================================================From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:59:31 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
OK Jeremy, then I'm very sorry that you found the article offensive.
I've already stated that it was a "mistake" to post it and have apologized.
I agree that this list is predominantly for landcruiser related content but
we have had posts that can be described as "friendly banter" with no 4x4
content in the past so I don't think that my question about permitted
content is inappropriate. All sorts of things can be offensive to some
people that others would find totally innocuous.
I agree it's clear on reflection that overt political or religious musings
are not appropriate for this list but then is a discussion of the political
situation and, say, potential terrorist threat in, oh I don't know,
somewhere that someone might want to overland to, Algeria maybe
inappropriate?
So then.... no jokes, no banter, no mention of Land Rovers or Nissan
Patrols, no mention of religion or race in whatever context... just
Landcruisers then?
Pete
=======================================================================From: "Chas" <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:15:07 +0100
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
For fear of raising someone's hackles, I shall mention a 'rude' word, Land
Rover, or two words. I went to Brighton yesterday for the Land Rover Owners
Club gathering and they wouldn't let me in because I was driving a
Landcruiser. So I had to park on the street and consequently got a parking
ticket because I didn't realise Brighton charges for parking on a Sunday. I
did manage to buy a set of X-eng's Xlite spots
http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Lite.asp?MID=43 at a show discount though, and very
neat little spots they are too.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:32:27 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hello Chas,
I'm not totally surprised about you LR experience. Bet you weren't
dressed in camo?
About the X-eng lamps - what are they good for? Could they be used as
reversing/work lamps?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Chas <[Email address removed]> wrote:
Owners
I
very
musings
of
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:45:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Peter,
of
You need to remember that this list covers a multitude of political and
religious boundaries and whilst stating your own beliefs isn't really an
issues (as I'm quite open about being pro shooting and hunting, which I know
some/many may not be) this isn't the place to pushing your views on others.
You believe that the article was 'bang on the nail' however that is your
view
and one that I know isn't shared by many others. The fact that your post
came
across as 'preaching' your vein and on that basis I think it is
inappropriate.
In the same vein it would be innappropriate for me to post articles written
by
the Countryside Alliance (a British Pro countryside, Hunting and Shooting
lobby group for those that don't know).
However posting information about political issues like the NERC bill would
be
relevant because it is something that relates to what the list is about.
It is a very fine line and always best to just follow the common sense rule
of
avoiding religion and politics - that way you are unlikely to cause any
offense.
But surely in that instance you would be stating facts about the situation
which would be OK rather than going in to the rights or wrongs.
Come on Peter, it's just a case of being sensible about it.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:53:36 +0100
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Pete
I think you know what is meant.
political
There are plenty of forums out there that deal with this kind of thing. Try
Chris Scott's on the Horizons Unlimited site.
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:56:04 +0100
Subject: [ELCO] Lights for my roofrack
From: Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]>
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Interested to see Chas your web site re the X Lites.
I'm looking for some spots to put on my roofrack and would like some
recommendations.
Also be interested to know how people have dealt with the cabling.
The one thing I am concerned about is keeping the light off the bonnet
without illuminating the Atlas mts next time ~I'm over there.
Jeremy
HDj81 etc etc
=======================================================================Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:13:45 +0100
From: Roman <[Email address removed]>
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Lights for my roofrack
Reply-To: [Email address removed]
Hi Jeremy,
I have a mixture of spot and wide angle Lightforce lamps
I tried keeping the lamps as far back as possible, that is as far as
the roofrack allows, but I'm not quite happy with the result. I guess
if it's a pencil beam you don't get much illumination, if it's wide
beam you get reflections. The bonnet is not a big problem if it's
covered with dust, but the windscreen is.
Wiring - I havea MIL connector on the roof allowing removal of the
roofrack together with the lamps. I drilled a hole in the roof just
above the A-post to fit the socket and ran the wiring in a convoluted
tubing along the A-post on the inside.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones <[Email address removed]> wrote:
ELCOInfo.html
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Adrian,
The standard off the shelf snorkel is unlikely to make much difference to your
MPG or performance - it certainly doesn't justify the cost of getting one and
installing it.
Are you planning on much serious off roading or just mild stuff. I think it is
Direct4x4 or one of the companies like that that sell the rear tyre carrier
that you see on Japanese imported LCs. You need to get your own bracing
supports to go within the body to support it, however it is prabably still the
cheapest route to getting your spare out from under the back, although not
advisable if you are considering doing a lot of overlanding.
The next option is one of the carriers from Kamar or TJM that fits on just one
side and attaches directly to the chassis - not sure what the costs are or
where you can get one, but might be worth contacting All-American.nl - I think
they will do the TJM one.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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