Replacing the Starting Battery - Have I smoked it?

[Paul_Driver]

Have I smoked it? Well yes there there was smoke and a burning smell, but what have exactly have I smoked?

The car wouldn't start this morning. The dash lights were OK but just a 'click' when I turned the key.

Dead battery? I tried jump starting off the main battery (drivers side), nothing, just the same click.

I've had a similar problem before which turned out to be corroded connections on the starter battery so checked I checked these and although they seemed fine I wondered whether this battery had eventually failed. This corrosion has been iffy for a while and I noticed that salt build-up was getting pretty bad.

To test this I then jump started off the starter battery and the engine fired up. Seems like faulty starter battery then.

I've read on the forum that the problem could also be bad connections on the starter solenoid or that the starter motor may need refurbishing. But because I successfully managed to jump start of the starter battery I just assumed that this battery had failed.

It was when fitting the new starter battery that things started to go wrong.

1.) disconnected the negative lead from the main battery (but not the positive)
2.) disconnected and removed starter battery
3.) fitted new starter battery and connected positive lead first
4.) connected negative lead and within a couple of seconds I could see smoke and smell burning (plastic?)
5.) disconnected the negative lead from the starter battery quickly to stop the melt down
6.) swore and kicked myself for leaving the positive lead connected to the main battery
7.) disconnected positive from main
8.) tried again with starter battery this time no smoke or burning smell
9.) reconnected main battery
10.) success I think to myself
11.) turn ignition, nothing but a click, back to square one.

So did I get it completely wrong in terms of the running order when changing the battery over? Or by not realising that I needed to disconnect the positive lead as well as the negative from the main battery?

What have I burned out and how do I fix it?

I'm snowed in on Ilkley Moor and rapidly running out of firewood and vino.

Paul

 

[Chris]

On Ilkley Moor? Not without a hat I trust?

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

There are probably a few possibilities Paul but it would be worth checking both battery voltages with the terminals disconnected. The main battery could be so discharged or have an internal short that when you connected the starter battery there was a very high current transfer accross to the other battery. Checking the voltages with them disconnected would give some idea of what state they're in.

 

[Paul_Driver]

@Chris. Yes wrapped up nicely and watching the ducks play football

 

[Chris]

Ooh, what's the score?

Hope there haven't been too many fowls. They could be up before the beak in the morning. That could really come home to roost later with a hefty bill. There's usually someone egging them on. Usually when they take a dive.

He He

C

 

[Paul_Driver]

@Chris AKA good egg

See lyric variations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Ilkla_M ... 'at#Lyrics

 

[Chris]

Ey up, an we know why t'ducks fly backaards. It's te keep sh1t outta their eyes!

Hope the vino doesn't run out. That would be a tragedy.

Best O' luck wi t'batteries.

C

 

[Paul_Driver]

Tested the voltages .

Main Battery = 12.4v
Starter Battery = 12.5v

 

[karl webster]

hi paul.I had the same prob the other morning. I put another starter on it and a 24starter solioid on.
Cane to it this morning and the same again.
I have brought two new high powered batteries as to totally know they are good. Only way i got it to turn today was by putting a direct feed stright to the starter switch wire. I will post if i get to the bottom of it mate
karl

 

[Chris]

Paul, not a battery expert, but I think that you need to test the battery with a load don't you? The voltage is an indication - and they look good, but if you stick one of those big testers across it, that may drop pretty quickly. What's it like if you stick the high beam on and a load of other high consumption electrics? Then with that lot on what happens if you turn the key? Do the lights etc take a dive? If they do, then the load is going somewhere. If not then clearly the starter isn't pulling anything. Either battery will support the car's standing electrics. Disconnect driver battery and everything (lights etc) should still work.
As I say, Paul, not an expert, but knowing that the battery has some amps in it not just volts would be a valid test I think.

Chris

 

[Dave Burgess]

Sounds all a bit odd... are you certain you connected the correct polarity? I ask because unless you get specific left and right batteries, the pos and neg are the same way round and the cables are not( OEM on mine are a pair of handed batteries).

Jumping across surely defeats the 24v relay as the jump parallels and the relay puts them in series. That will set up a very odd set of current flows and some strange voltages.

 

[Paul_Driver]

Dave, you have hit the nail on the head.

The replacement starter battery is exactly the same as the main battery. I went back down to the council waste depot and luckily was able to recover my old starter battery only to find that the poles are indeed reversed.

The cables appear to be not long enough to switch around though, nor are they colour coded and it just didn't occur to me to check, why would it be different???

Any ideas what damage I may have caused and how to fix it, bearing in mind that there was smoke and an acrid smell.

 

[frank rabbets]

Most stockists only keep the one type in stock but the originals are mirror images of themselves. I bought 2 from Halfords and lengthened the cables on the one side. If you inspect the cables running from the batteries first you will probably see where the smell came from and hopefully not much damage.

Frank

 

[Paul_Driver]

All sorted now. I had a look at the cables with a view to extending them so I could swap them over, but the job looked a bit involved with one of the leads going all the way to the starter motor - sod that.

Instead I bit the bullet and bought a battery pair and it fired up straight away. The extra money is only what I would have paid to an auto electrician, to look at me like I was an idiot and now I've got two good batteries and working machine.

I found one burnt fuse marked 'hood' in the engine compartment but don't know whether it was related.

Thanks everyone for all the advice.