Repsol oil specification change.

[Dave2000]

I have always used the Repsol range of oils here in Spain, both for my own vehicles and customers as well, there has never been an issue.

On the 20th of February this year I changed the oil using my typical technique, engine hot, oil and filter out, new filter and refill with fully synthetic, fast idle for 10 - 15 minutes, drain again and change filter again, finally new 10/40 mineral oil......job done or so I thought.

There was considerable mud around the engine bay as there have been a few wading sessions getting to my house recently, so I drove down the car wash and jetted the engine off.....yes there is a jet was in the workshop....don't ask.

On the way back I braked for the rambla I have to cross to get to my house and the oil pressure light started flashing and the warning buzzer started sounding. I dipped the clutch and shut off the engine and guessed I had a blown oil filter, or worse left the bloody sump plug loose! Opened up the bonnet and there were no leaks, there was the correct amount of oil in the sump so I finished the last hundred yards drive home.

With a master gauge it showed the pressure being down about 7...ish psi? Given my oil pressure switch is a master version it showed the pressure is sufficient but why the change? My oil pressure switch set circa 20 psi. After changing the oil filter again, checked connections, blah blah, I noticed the oil I had been sent was the Repsol 10/40 but now there is a label saying 'synthetic blend'. In theory this should not be an issue I mean a 10/40 is a 10/40 right? Well I will qualify that and say 'well respected brands' should be the same. Anyway, being allowed out for the first weekend in what feels like years I hit some local trails and got the engine up to proper temps as the 80 is really well and truly ready to go, roof rack and all the usual camping goodies the engine getting a good workout, sure enough the buzzer and light showed again at idle. I spent some time with the supplier this morning and it was agreed to try a different brand oil, the mineral version Repsol is no longer available. So another oil filter change and a refill with Total 10/40, this also being labelled a 10/40 synthetic blend. It does appear to have upped the oil pressure a tad so I will see how it goes.

Amazing how I have three different 10/40 oils and there is such a variance in the viscosity. Just how wide is the test tolerance to grade an oil FFS?

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

Any thing to do with faulty wiring on the float switch on the side of the sump?

 

[Dave2000]

Any thing to do with faulty wiring on the float switch on the side of the sump?

I think you misread my post Frank?

The float on the side of the sump as you know is responsible for checking the oil level. I have a T on the pressure gauge sender hole in the block wired to a light and buzzer, so this is a pressure related issue as opposed to a level issue.

In case anyone was wondering why I fitted it?

This is one of Mr T's errors, no oil pressure light is an unforgivable omission IMO. No matter how much of a gauge watcher you are a slowly falling oil pressure is not going to be noticed, the needle on the dashboard slowly falling is not going to get the same attention as a red light. As a lot of our trails are around the sides of mountains on rutted tracks and absolutely nothing to stop you going over the edge I am certainly not looking at the dashboard.

Many may remember the gauge insert I designed and fitted?

This is done in 'dead fronted' material, so like the rest of the lights on the rest of the 80 dashboard they are not seen unless illuminated.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

I could not get the second image to upload on the same post so another.

The colours look a bit off but that is the camera, the 'pinks' are red and so forth.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

Another of the installed panel.

Some of the icon flash for example oil pressure, overheating and so forth.

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

Yes Dave and I had forgotten your mods.

 

[Deleted member 13129]

Do you mean to say you used fully synthetic oil as a flush for 10 to 15 mins then drained it out and put mineral oil( mineral oil is a much lower quality oil compared to synthetic oil) in to replace it WHY ? , fully synthetic oil is BY FAR a superior quality oil , I would not put mineral oil in a lawn mower let alone in a car engine , the last time I put mineral oil in a car engine was in the early 19 80s before synthetic oil came out. mineral oil is half the price of synthetic oil and not even half as good as synthetic oil .

 

[Dave2000]

Do you mean to say you used fully synthetic oil as a flush for 10 to 15 mins then drained it out and put mineral oil( mineral oil is a much lower quality oil compared to synthetic oil) in to replace it WHY ? , fully synthetic oil is BY FAR a superior quality oil , I would not put mineral oil in a lawn mower let alone in a car engine , the last time I put mineral oil in a car engine was in the early 19 80s before synthetic oil came out. mineral oil is half the price of synthetic oil and not even half as good as synthetic oil .

One of the problems of fully synthetic oil is it tends to attack the rubber seals used in older engines that have high mileages, this can cause leaks, in particular crankshaft seals. By flushing with 9 litres of fully synthetic and a new filter I am getting the benefit of the cleansing action the modern oil has, as opposed to using flushing oil which I never use. Then in goes the mineral offering and another filter.

regards

Dave

 

[Deleted member 13129]

One of the problems of fully synthetic oil is it tends to attack the rubber seals used in older engines that have high mileages, this can cause leaks, in particular crankshaft seals. By flushing with 9 litres of fully synthetic and a new filter I am getting the benefit of the cleansing action the modern oil has, as opposed to using flushing oil which I never use. Then in goes the mineral offering and another filter.

regards

Dave

I have never seen Jap engines leak oil from the use of synthetic oil unless they were allready worn out due to lack of oil changes during the life of the car , older German cars yes I have seen it even with low miles on them , Jap engines especially Toyota and Honda engines are a class above the rest of the world when it comes to longlife high quality engines and transmissions .

 

[Dave2000]

I have never seen Jap engines leak oil from the use of synthetic oil unless they were allready worn out due to lack of oil changes during the life of the car , older German cars yes I have seen it even with low miles on them , Jap engines especially Toyota and Honda engines are a class above the rest of the world when it comes to longlife high quality engines and transmissions .

Many years back I would agree that the Japanese engines had better longevity compared to European built engines however, experience dictates that older designs of engines Japanese included do not 'hold' the oil as good as the modern versions. As an example I have a 1996 Honda Prelude 2000 16 valve, the owner lives in an expensive apartment block with dedicated parking, so anything on the floor only comes from her car. I used a 5/30 synthetic as it has the 16 valve engine on it's first service by me and it leaked, nothing serious but there was the odd drop from the rear crank seal. This at the time was a new customer to me, mileage circa 80,000? She rang me about the leak and I explained I could use a heavier mineral oil which seems to hold up better during short runs which is all she ever does. She understood it was an old vehicle but as it was (and still is) immaculate she wanted to keep it, so a new filter and a 10/40 mineral, 6 ish years on still no leaks.

Whilst I agree that synthetic is a better oil in 'most' cases but, having been in the trade for so many years it really is experience I am using to make my choice.

EDIT: I get the fully synthetic free and as a mechanic I get the filters at trade, I don't want anyone thinking I have money to burn.

regards

Dave

 

[Deleted member 13129]

My wife and I both had 1996 P reg Rover 600 sli which we got when in 1999 when one just under 3 years old and one just over I px a rover 827sli V6 24v for one of them and a rover 216 sli 16v for the other , all 4 rovers had Honda engines in them, the two 600s had the same engine as the 20 lt 16v Honda accord , I used fully synthetic oil in all of them and never had any oil leaks and both went past 100 k miles , I px one for a P reg Lexus Ls400 that was the same age in 2005 with 160 k miles on the clock I always used fully synthetic oil on the Lexus I sold the Lexus with more than 240 k miles on it and that never had any oil leaks on that either , all engines need oil changes every six months so that the acid that forms in the oil from the oil cleaning the engine is what ruins seals and not the synthetic oil itself , mineral oil breaks down much faster and as well as the acid forming it also causes black gunge carbon to build up and block or slow down oil ways and the engine wears out faster then when one puts in synthetic oil in it cleans out the engine over time in say six months then finds leaks , but the problem was from the crappy mineral oil that was left in too long that did the damage and only by putting in thicker oil stops or slows the leaks down . I have been servicing cars since 1977 and have owned and serviced every thing from rotary engines to V8 s and found its the owners neglect on Jap cars that destroys them , here in sunny Cyprus its all the German , French and Italian cars that cave in quickly with oil leaks or have many problems even with relatively low miles , the only Jap engine that does not have a long life time with out trouble is the Mazda Rotary engine .
Kind regards
Tony

 

[Dave2000]

@TONYCY11 Thanks for that, I guess we could both offer examples all day long that we have experience with, consider an engine that has 50,000 miles versus an engine that has 100,000 miles, and yet the 50,000 is smoking and/or leaking, and the 100,000 miler is in perfect condition and yet both engines are the same age and serviced regularly, the difference? One lives in London and the other in a rural setting, take a guess which one is worn out.

Just a note about Rotary engines. Whilst the seals were deemed a weakness in the design, the main reason they wore out so quickly was because 'people in the know' used synthetic oil in them!

Not having worked on many Rotary engines I gather they have redesigned the seals and more modern versions can use synthetic, years back it was not a good idea.

regards

Dave

 

[Deleted member 13129]

I have had 3 rotary engine cars two 1974 Madza Rx3 s which I got in 1977 and one in 1978 that needed a rebuild and the first series 1980 rx7 which I got brand new , the Rx3 s had carbon rotor tip seals with a arched spring pushing the seal to the cylinder head (the rotor housing) and never had them wear out , but the giant O ring seals that seperate the side walls and rotor housing would rot with the heat and the engine would leak coolant into the engine and masses of steam would come out of the exhaust and the loss of coolant would lead to overheating and warping of the two rotor housing rendering the engine useless , so the engine would last around 3 years or 30k miles , the Rx7 had better sealing round the rotor housing that would last 5 years or around 50k miles but had nickel rotor tips which last about 5 years or 50k miles , but you get them to last much longer if you put in two stroke oil with the petrol . I px the Rx7 for a Datsun 260Z 2+2 which was a much better car (wish I still had it ) had to sell it to get married and put a deposit on a house , the 260 Z was the first car I used synthetic oil on it was mobil 1 it used to advertise a cylinder head without its rocker cover after 20k miles with out a oil change and the valve gear and camshaft were still very clean , it also had a pic of the same type engine that ran for 20k miles on mineral oil and it was all choked up in black carbon gunge , since the Datsun I have used fully synthetic oil on all my cars , but not mobil 1 coz its too dear , the Repsol mineral oil hear in Cyprus is sold only in 1 litre bottles folk hear use it for small generators or lawnmowers , Repsol sell synthetic oil 10w-40 here in 4 or 5 litre packs not sure which but costs between 40 and 45 euros in Diy stores , I get fully synthetic 5w-40 oil from Lidl for 18 euros for 5 litres when they do motor car deals and I buy 10 packs 5 litre in bulk buying coz they only sell it twice a year , my lc120 uses 7 litres a time and I change the oil twice a year and the oil filter once a year . so I always have a stock of oil in my workshop .
regards Tony

 

[Dave2000]

I was not swayed by the rotary hype back then so stayed away from them.

There is no more Repsol mineral oil here at all now, so a little disappointed.

18 euros for 5 litres of Lidl fully synthetic, sounds like a bargain.

I did run a couple of V8's a yank and a Rover in a MK1 escort, but made a quick jump to V12's although I was happy running Morrison's 20/50 mineral in that.

BTW, I would not consider changing oil and not the filter, just MHO

regards

Dave

 

[Deleted member 13129]

The Lexus V8 was the smoothest engine I have had or ever seen running, even smoother than the Rotary engine , the V6 honda engine in the Rover 827 was smooth too but not to the Lexus standed , I agree about the oil filters but now I live in Cyprus I only do 2k miles in six months and as I use toyota genuine oil filters which are top quality, I feel its over kill and an expense to change it for 2k miles , I always drain the oil the morning after I last used the car with out warming it up even though it can be between 30 and 40 plus centigrade in summer its that hot 42 centigrade today , so that all the oil has drained back to the sump even the oil filter is empty of oil by then because of the position of the filter after 5 hours of draining not a drop is dripping out , I always fill the the oil filter with oil and let it soak before I refit the filter so that the engine gets oil as soon as possible , I use a K&N air filter which I clean and re oil every 10k miles instead of up to 50k miles recommend by K&N .
regards Tony

 

[Dave2000]

No signature so unsure what 80 you have? The inverted oil filters are not supposed to drain if the anti drain valve is working? I have tried different filter brands on mine and unfortunately I have not found a filter that always holds it's oil after switching off Toyota and Bosch both have drained back on different occasions although I agree Toyota do seem to have the edge when it comes to overall filter construction. I am presently using the Millard brand and they seem to hold oil well, the last three I have changed in the last 1,000 odd miles since finding out about the mineral/synthetic issues have all been Millard so a pat on the back for them at present.

I too am not a high mileage user, less than 100,000 in over ten years? A good mix though, motorways, low urban use and of course the mountain ranges that make up our off road fun here.

Re 'when to change' has always fuelled debate, to be honest I think there are merits in both ideas. Switch off and drain straight away, or leave all night and drain and then drain. Nowadays I go for a run and then give the engine around 30 minutes to cool off and then drain, making sure the oil filter is changed at the same time, my thinking (right or wrong), is the engine still has plenty of oil around the moving parts ready for the restart after refilling.

Leaving all night on the other hand allows oil to seep from bearing surfaces, so when starting after a refill there is the delay in getting the filter and galleries filled to capacity and then the oil flowing to the somewhat dryer bearing surfaces. It could be argued that you are getting 'all' of the dirty oil out however, I have heard many an engine start in the morning with a slight knock from the bottom or rattle from top until oil has reached certain areas, and this is despite there not being an oil and filter change after standing, the jury may well be out on that thought but I will stick with a pre warm.

Re K & N, I am not a fan of them TBH, I use an OE Toyota air filter, and after an off road trip that is particularly dusty I take the filter out and wash it, and put in my other again OE filter, the washed one is dried and goes in a plastic bag in the garage or off road kit ready for the next change.

I am not so sure I would be relying on an air filter that only gets cleaned every two and a half years, but again everyone's experience differs.

regards

Dave

 

[jibberjabber]

I use Castrol MAGNATEC 5W-30 C3 Fully Synthetic in my 100 1HD-FTE series.

Castrol Magnatec’s intelligent molecules cling to the engine like a magnet providing an extra layer of protection ready to protect from the moment you turn the key. Magnatec’s molecules are always there, always ready, dramatically reducing** engine wear when the most damage happens; as your car warms up.

Just my tuppence worth.

 

[Dave2000]

@jibberjabber Gotta love those clingy molecules.

I used to run a can of Molyslip in the petrol engines I used to run, unsure if it really helped with longevity but the psychology worked........I think?

regards

Dave

 

[jibberjabber]

I to love clingy Miss Moly Slip oily tee shirt competitions.

 

[Deleted member 13129]

No signature so unsure what 80 you have? The inverted oil filters are not supposed to drain if the anti drain valve is working? I have tried different filter brands on mine and unfortunately I have not found a filter that always holds it's oil after switching off Toyota and Bosch both have drained back on different occasions although I agree Toyota do seem to have the edge when it comes to overall filter construction. I am presently using the Millard brand and they seem to hold oil well, the last three I have changed in the last 1,000 odd miles since finding out about the mineral/synthetic issues have all been Millard so a pat on the back for them at present.

I too am not a high mileage user, less than 100,000 in over ten years? A good mix though, motorways, low urban use and of course the mountain ranges that make up our off road fun here.

Re 'when to change' has always fuelled debate, to be honest I think there are merits in both ideas. Switch off and drain straight away, or leave all night and drain and then drain. Nowadays I go for a run and then give the engine around 30 minutes to cool off and then drain, making sure the oil filter is changed at the same time, my thinking (right or wrong), is the engine still has plenty of oil around the moving parts ready for the restart after refilling.

Leaving all night on the other hand allows oil to seep from bearing surfaces, so when starting after a refill there is the delay in getting the filter and galleries filled to capacity and then the oil flowing to the somewhat dryer bearing surfaces. It could be argued that you are getting 'all' of the dirty oil out however, I have heard many an engine start in the morning with a slight knock from the bottom or rattle from top until oil has reached certain areas, and this is despite there not being an oil and filter change after standing, the jury may well be out on that thought but I will stick with a pre warm.

Re K & N, I am not a fan of them TBH, I use an OE Toyota air filter, and after an off road trip that is particularly dusty I take the filter out and wash it, and put in my other again OE filter, the washed one is dried and goes in a plastic bag in the garage or off road kit ready for the next change.

I am not so sure I would be relying on an air filter that only gets cleaned every two and a half years, but again everyone's experience differs.

regards

Dave

I dont have a 80 I have a 120 diesel .the oil filter fits screw side upwards so you have to be quick screwing it on so the oil dont drip out if you fill them with oil like I do , yes they have anti drain back valves but if the filter is in the screwed down upwards position will after a few hours drain back to the sump , a good quality synthetic oil has enough zinc in it to cling to the engine parts to limit metal to metal contact on start up . I have deleated the egr valve and fitted a full blanking plate , and vented the pcv to air via a oil catch can then routed under the car to air , doing these mods leaves the engine oil so much cleaner as no soot from the exhaust or crankcase gas goes back in the engine just cool fresh air from the air filter through the intercooler which also results in extra power and torque at low and middle rev range plus longer engine life .
regards tony