Spheres

[Steve Wright]

Hi All

I am asking fro a friend !

He is having problems with his "x" reg Amazon 100 series, with the suspension, he has had the car about two
years now and he says it has been like it since he got it, but though thats how it was. he says it it bounces
just on the front, it goes up and down ok, but he says the fluid does not alter in the reservoir, as it should.

He says his first MOT was fine as it was done at a main Toyota dealer, but they have commented on it at
his second MOT (now I don't know if they failed it, or just a advisory)

But now he is aware that it is a problem he wants to get it sorted, and he had done a bit of research and
believes it might be the Spheres (front at least) but has not been able to find any.

I remember reading some one in the states were doing them, I wonder if any one has this info, or even better
is any one in the UK doing them ?

Thanks for any info

 

[Paul_Humphreys]

I do not know about LCs, but it was the same with french cars. When it starts bounceing then they need changeing.

Paul

 

[uHu]

Yes. Sounds like the nitrogen spheres (or gas springs) are "flat".
You check them by counting the number of graduations change in AHC-fluid level when changing the height of the car from Lo to Hi. Should be more than 7 grads. With new spheres - should be more than 14. Conditions are: normal empty weight; normal/standard height at Lo, N & Hi; at least.
Get new ones from a toyota dealer or 2nd hand from a breakers yard. They seem to last approx 150 k miles at least, although age might be more important than miles. (The car rests on the springs whether driving or stationary). Anything else than the original AHC fluid will kill the spheres (I know )

 

[Steve Wright]

I do believe he has done the checks, but getting from main dealers is VERY expensive but have heard
there is someone selling these (as I say in the USA) but cannot find any info, but hopefully someone in the
UK might sell them.

 

[Rob]

have you tried Ian Rubie? He may be able to get them for a more reasonable price then the dealers.

 

[uHu]

http://www.activesuspensionsystems.com/
That's you man in the US.
If you read a bit in the mud forum, you'll find that sometimes his spheres "misbehave", but reading on, it seems that he is very good at replacing parts and making things good again. Could be more difficult when you have to ship things over the big puddle, and across (customs)borders. Also note that not all of his claims are necessarily correct (like for all of us?), but the product might still be OK. He is "Texasoil" on mud.

 

[Steve Wright]

I do believe he has done the checks, but getting from main dealers is VERY expensive but have heard
there is someone selling these (as I say in the USA) but cannot find any info, but hopefully someone in the
UK might sell them.

Just a quick thanks to you all for the help, I have spoke to Ian, and passed on
details to my friend.

 

[nathanrobo]

Spoken to Pleiades in Sawtry near Peterborough. I drove Citroen XM's in the 90's (these have 7 spheres in total - plus a bunch of electronic and manual valves) and Pleiades were great. They have rebuilt spheres for Citroens, Maserati's, Rolls Royces and some classics such as Porcshe and Ferrari and have years and years of experience! They have also come up with modifications to overcome manufacturers design flaws.

They are recharging or converting customers own spheres for LC 100 series. But speaking to Phill you get the sense that they would put more investment into Landcruiser spheres if there were greater demand. He also said that most spheres if allowed to go completely flat get damaged (a rivet punctures the diaphram - they use an endoscope to inspect before recharging), which means that they convert a sphere for a different application to suit... but this costs more. Unlike Citroen, Maserati, Roll Royce etc. Toyota have been completely unhelpful with the specified new gas pressure on LC spheres. At the moment they are working with on approximate values which seem to be ok. (Not sure if Julian V or Jon Wildsmith are monitoring this thread... if not I'll send a PM - see if they know).

Prices seem to be:
£45 for a sphere recharge and appx. £100 for a sphere recharge.

At the moment the service is parts only, but when they become more familiar with LC's and can price the work effectively they will offer a fitting service too! From memory their real selling point was a 2 or 3yr warranty on recharged spheres where the new warranty on new parts from the dealer was 1 year.

Pleiades: contact Phill or Martin on 01487-831239

 

[uHu]

The front gas chambers have a gas volume of 400 cc, and a pressure of 2.26 MPa (327 psi).
Rear chambers volume 500 cc and 2.65 MPa (384 psi).

The Accumulator is a free-piston type with dual piston rings, filled with nitrogen for pressure. The nitrogen volume is 945 cc with a pressure of 5.9 MPa (853 psi).

The Pump Attenuator is also a kind of accumulator, with a bellows filled with nitrogen, 2 cc at 1.96 MPa (284 psi).

 

[nathanrobo]

uHu

Thanks for that... some pretty high pressures. I'll forward these onto Pleiades as I'll be getting my spheres done next week. I'll post on my experiences.

 

[k1elliott]

The spheres I got all had the same part number and so I didn't differentiate on position when installing. Would this be a problem based on the info in the previous pos on this thread?

Cheers,
Ken

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

It sounds like there would be a bit of difference and it depends a bit if you have 4 fronts or 4 rears. I'm not sure you would be able to tell much difference from the seat of your pants but the gas pressure sets the AHC's spring rate so 4 fronts is probably more of a worry than 4 rears.

 

[k1elliott]

Thanks again Jon. I've noticed the back jumping out sometimes around bends when I hit a bump. Nothing serious though.

 

[uHu]

The spheres I got all had the same part number and so I didn't differentiate on position when installing.

You should be able to compare the sizes with your old ones and find out if the new ones are fronts or rears. If you see them together you can see clearly that the front ones are smaller.
Are the new ones refilled, new or just 2nd hand?

 

[k1elliott]

Hi,

Thanks for the tip - I'll check. All new Toyo original. I'm not concerned about it though. It probably does explain the harsh ride from the back though.

 

[uHu]

If you have four front spheres you should be concerned. The front spheres would not have enough suspension travel for the rear. They would bottom out. Particularly when the pressure is a bit lower as well. Not a good solution.