Wheel Bearings etc [chat]

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Morning all
Sorry to have dropped out of sight for the weekend but as Julian knows I
have been sorting out the FPS wheel bearings. Well, after far too much time
spent wrenching the car is now back together. However, the ABS light now
refuses to go out. I did it by the text book, making sure I removed the
sensor before I pulled the Birfield, no damage to any of the wiring or the
sensor that I can see and made sure that I replaced it intact. But the
light still will not go out!!!!! How annoying is that? Julian and I spoke
at length about this and as suggested I have tried to clean off the ABS ring
that goes around the birfield thru the grease hole in the Knuckle but this
has made no difference so I am stumped for the moment. I have pulled the
sensor out cleaned it and checked the external contacts but cannot see why
it does not work. Anyone come across this??
Anyway apart from the ABS problem I now know what a set of knackered Wheel
bearings look like! Funnily enough apart from being nearly grease free I
could have got away with repacking them but as I did have to replace the
inner oil seals I decided to go the whole hog and do it all. I will post a
"blow by blow" later but one thing I did notice was that the reason for the
wheel rocking was that the 54mm lock nuts were loose and the bearings were
almost dry. If I had repacked the bearings and tightened the nuts this
would have cured the rocking. But the knuckle had very little grease and
the oil in the diff was gross so it had to be done!
A quick note to John B.
John I have noticed my tlc vibrates and struggles for fuel on hills when
stopping, it is a fuel issue because once the engine is off you can press
the black cap on the fuel filter and recharge the filter housing which tells
me not enough fuel is getting to the filter at steep angles. On a flat road
the black cap will not move once engine is off so all is well. Is your
vibration a fuel related issue as well??
Julian V.
Heartfelt thanks for all your help and advice.
Catch up in more detail later.
Regards
Simon Hughes
K reg TLC 4.2l TD 156k (stops but only just)
 
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Simon
<snip>
| However, the ABS light now refuses to go out. I did it by the text book, making sure I
| removed the sensor before I pulled the Birfield, no damage to any of the wiring or the
| sensor that I can see and made sure that I replaced it
| intact. But the light still will not go out!!!!!
</snip>
I've read elsewhere that the front sensors can attract iron filings at their ends, which can affect their efficiency. It could be worth taking them out again and cleaning the tips carefully. But I'm not very hopeful about that because the ABS computer self-check does not require the truck to be moving, and the constant ABS light usually means that the (static) resistance of a sensor is out of range, which means broken wiring or broken inside.
When I originally had ABS problems (which turned out to be nothing to do with the front sensors, but that's another story) the Toyota mechanic said "I'll try to get those front sensors out in one piece, but they get corroded in and can break just from taking them out".
A Toyota garage can plug a diagnostic tool into the ABS computer and get a read-out, but I've a nasty feeling that it will show a dead sensor. Sadly they are only available in pairs with their wiring loom... at =A3200+ as I recall.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
 
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Hi Chris
I have been looking on the Net and it seems that the sensors are very
sensitive to knocks and bangs. Whoops wish I had read that as I would have
wrapped it all in bubblewrap. Anyway I appreciate the advice and the "bad
news" I am hoping that this will not be the final outcome but I was so
careful with the sensor, took it out of the housing well before I started
banging the hell out of the knuckle etc. Sensor came out easily, was dirty
but cleaned it all up and it looked fine But I did have to pound the tie rod
ends to get them seated (am still not convinced they are back in as far as
they were originally!) but that was against a brass drift rammed into the
driveway and not against the knuckle? Anyway I am going to try again and
then bite the bullet and order the parts.
By the way what does the end of the sensor look like? Mine is a metal tube
with a rubber o ring at the top and the end has a short metal tab say
5-7.5mm long? Is this right?
All the best
Simon Hughes
K reg TLC 4.2l TD 156k (its getting expensive again)
 
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Simon
|
| I have been looking on the Net and it seems that the sensors
| are very sensitive to knocks and bangs. Whoops wish I had
| read that as I would have wrapped it all in bubblewrap.
| Anyway I appreciate the advice and the "bad news" I am hoping
| that this will not be the final outcome but I was so careful
| with the sensor, took it out of the housing well before I
| started banging the hell out of the knuckle etc. Sensor came
| out easily, was dirty but cleaned it all up and it looked
| fine But I did have to pound the tie rod ends to get them
| seated (am still not convinced they are back in as far as
| they were originally!) but that was against a brass drift
| rammed into the driveway and not against the knuckle? Anyway
| I am going to try again and then bite the bullet and order the parts.
If you took that much care I'm surprised they are damaged. I would definitely try the remove, clean, fiddle with wiring, reseat approach first. Especially check any wiring loom connections that may have been strained, but they are well away from the axle and I'm sure you wouldn't have yanked them about.

| By the way what does the end of the sensor look like? Mine
| is a metal tube with a rubber o ring at the top and the end
| has a short metal tab say 5-7.5mm long? Is this right?
|
Sounds right. This is the magnetic sensor that receives pulses as each cog of the toothed wheel passes. Obviously wheel speed is proportional to the frequency of the pulses, so the ABS computer compares pulse rates from each wheel, and if a wheel is significantly slower than the others it assumes that it is skidding and it cycles that brake line's pressure. The farting noise and pedal vibration you feel when the ABS kicks in is a solenoid valve on the brake line cycling, effectively "cadence braking" that wheel very rapidly.
I came across some pictures a while back, and stored them under "Favourites, ABS" on this machine ... about 3 months before the disk crashed! But in looking for them again I've come across breaker's yards that offer to sell sensors. (I typed "landcruiser + ABS sensor" into www.google.co.uk)
Christopher Bell
 
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G

Guest

Guest
Hi All (Chris/Julian)
Just got back from a client lunch, rather too many glasses of wine and too
much food but the perils of recruitment have to have some rewards.
I have been thinking about the ABS sensor and wonder if, when I repacked the
Knuckle, I put too much grease in there and the ring is so full that the
sensor cannot read the ring as it rotates underneath???? The grease I used
is Machine Mart Multi Lith grease which is a dark grey/clearish color which
I think contains graphite? This may trigger a false reading if its too
thick and is building up on the sensor??? I will tear it all down tonight
and clean out the knuckle, repack it avoiding the ring and then see if it
works. Bugger!!!! I thought I had finished this job!!!!!!!!!! I cannot
face the idea of spending ?200 to replace them.
If I get time I must now replace the fuel filter and see if this makes a
diff to the rough/near stalling that the car is experiencing while parking
on the hill. I did pull out the rear seats and the boot liner but cannot
find any way to get into the tank to take a look in?? Any ideas????
Regards
Simon Hughes
K reg TLC 4.2l TD 156k (I've started so I will finish)
 
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Simon
| Just got back from a client lunch, rather too many glasses of
| wine and too much food but the perils of recruitment have to
| have some rewards.
A bit different to lunch here (visiting 5 year old boy from Germany, attempting to start WW III with my 7 year old).

| I have been thinking about the ABS sensor and wonder if, when
| I repacked the Knuckle, I put too much grease in there and
| the ring is so full that the sensor cannot read the ring as
| it rotates underneath???? The grease I used is Machine Mart
| Multi Lith grease which is a dark grey/clearish color which I
| think contains graphite? This may trigger a false reading if
| its too thick and is building up on the sensor??? I will
| tear it all down tonight and clean out the knuckle, repack it
| avoiding the ring and then see if it works. Bugger!!!! I
| thought I had finished this job!!!!!!!!!! I cannot face the
| idea of spending =A3200 to replace them.
You don't say whether the lamp comes on and stays on when you first turn the ignition on, or comes on only once you start moving (or use the brakes).
If it comes on only once you are moving or using the brakes then it almost certainly is (a) Iron filings (or any stray metal) on the sensor tip; (b) too much grease in the hole, and in the toothed ring; (c) too big an air gap (sensor not seated properly). Any of these would reduce the voltage that the ABS computer "sees" and indicate a fault. Clean it all out, including the gaps in the rings, and see what happens.
If it comes on and stays on when stationary then the above *might* help, but I'm not so hopeful as it is more likely to mean an open circuit somewhere.
To test the sensors you need to do the following:
(1) With the vehicle stationary check their DC resistance. Someone with a FSM may be able to tell you where to get at the terminals (there's a diagnostic port attached to the ABS actuator), and possibly what the DC resistance should be, but I don't have that info. Failing that you'll have to open the connector on the wiring loom and trace the wires back. I've no idea what the resistance should be, but I do know that both front sensors should be roughly the same. Open circuit (infinite resistance) =3D broken. Zero resistance between either wire and chassis earth =3D broken.
(2) Assuming that checks out you need to find the AC voltage generated when the wheels are spun by hand. This will require the AC scale on a good voltmeter, and I think you'll get readings in the 0.4 to 1.0 volts region at ~7mph. Again left & right should be roughly the same at a given speed, and a bigger voltage is better. No voltage =3D dead. Causes of low voltage are gunge in the gap between sensor & toothed ring, iron filings on the tip and excessive air gap (sensor not seated properly).
I have to say that if I got to the "test the sensors" stage I'd take it to a Toyota garage and ask them to plug in their diagnostic tool, as that should tell straight away what the problem is.
As I said before it may be worth trying breakers' yards for sensors if it turns out that you need one. The online "search for a part" services are pretty impressive, and it is a small enough part to post easily.
Christopher Bell
 
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Hi Chris
Hmmmm sounds complicated but I have a multi meter and it is worth a go. I
will also try to source a breakers yard to get a spare/backup sensor and
then see what happens. I am not convinced about Toy garages as I have been
so badly ripped off by them in the past it is hard to face the charges these
guys rack up. My regular guy fixes police cars and really has no idea once
you get outside oil changes etc.
I guess I could live with no ABS but I hate seeing red lights on the dash
makes me nervous.
I think it is seated right in as it is snug on. Well lets have a look
tonight.
Thanks for the research and advice.
Regards
Simon Hughes
K reg TLC 4.2l TD 156k
 
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Simon
Fiddly more than complicated I think: all you are really doing is testing the function of an old-fashioned magneto. Pretend it's a lawnmower ...
If you get the resistance and voltage figures could you let us know, as you won't be the last person out there with ABS problems.
Good luck
CB
|
| Hmmmm sounds complicated but I have a multi meter and it is
| worth a go. I will also try to source a breakers yard to
| get a spare/backup sensor and then see what happens. I am
| not convinced about Toy garages as I have been so badly
| ripped off by them in the past it is hard to face the charges
| these guys rack up. My regular guy fixes police cars and
| really has no idea once you get outside oil changes etc.
|
| I guess I could live with no ABS but I hate seeing red lights
| on the dash makes me nervous.
|
| I think it is seated right in as it is snug on. Well lets
| have a look tonight.
|
 
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Oh?
I need an MOT soon so I had better fix this asap.
All the best
Simon Hughes
K reg TLC 4.2l TD 156k
 
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Shocker!!
But not that bad an idea, well played that man, I like the way your mind
works.
Fingers crossed that I find something obvious like connecter on wrong or
broke wire or lump of metal in way etc.
Still pondering the shaky idle but research on 80scool leads me to think
that this is a partially blocked fuel filter and I will sort this tonight.
The other option is (dreading) s a worn fuel pump which is shock horror
expensive but I think there are people who rebuild them. The clue is that
if you can pump the black cap then it is poor fuel supply and I can do that
once the car is idling on a hill.
All the best
Simon Hughes
K reg TLC 4.2l TD 156k
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Christopher Bell
Sent: 04 July 2005 15:12
terminals
As far as I can see RM184E (2/3rds scanned now) doesn't have any ABS
information. According to RM434E which I do have (1995 supplement)
RM315E has details on how to check the speed sensor signal. Anyone got
RM315E ?
RM434E does give figures for testing sensor resistance - shows a plug
with 4 connectors for front sensors and resistance is measured between
diagonally opposite terminals: 0.97 to 1.77 K ohms.
Best Regards,
Jon.
 
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ABS problems

Hi guys
Just a brief introduction from myself. I bought my first TLC about 6 weeks
ago & subscribed to the forum a month ago. I am a well seasoned L/Rover
owner & offroader (maybe I shouldnt be admiting that on this site). I must
say my HDJ80 makes a far superior tow motor than my previous TDI R/Rover.
So far I've just been earwiging to you cruiser heads out there & picking up
bits of usefull info. Here's the story with cruiser up to press. Purchased
in a well abused state, no tax, no test, knackered clutch, blown n/s cv
joint or birrfield as you reffer to them, every corner appeared to have been
used for adjusting drystone walls, & covered in cow shit inside & out (still
pongs a bit now after rain). Did the clutch, did the cvjoint, gave it wash
(its first from new i assume as its only had 1 owner previously)& got it
tested without many probs. Although 1 failure point was ABS light stoping on
but the brakes were fine, found a broken sensor plug on n/s/r superglued it
back together & hey presto ABS light extinguished, took it for retest but
brakes awfull, managed to con the tester by proudly showing him the light
going out after 2 secs. Drove home while testing brakes & ABS appears to be
kicking in under gentle braking, car thinks its going to skid then oh shit
no brakes. Anyway to cut along story short unpluged ABS, brakes fine, worry
about it next year, oh but ABS light on again. Any ideas????
Simon Mothersdale West Yorks
93 HDJ80 4.2TD 185000mls
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Hughes" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: [ELCO]Wheel Bearings etc [chat]
 
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