Causes of Oil in expansion bottle

[mrdelmonti]

Wilc doesn't strike me as the type that enjoys pulling things apart so dare i suggest he pops down to halfords and gets transmission leak stop and coolant leak stop , i know the magic fix is frowned upon but i bought a new seal for my front diff and not having time to replace it before the Romania trip i stuck some leak stop in there and left on a wing and a prayer . 5000 miles later its still bone dry .

Get what you're saying Shayne but I think he really needs to find the source of the problem, leak stop isn't a fix it's just a way of hiding the problem.

Appreciate it's working for you but as you're going to change the seal anyway it's not really comparable, Wilc doesn't know what the problem is so can't use it as stop gap until he gets a chance to properly repair and to do that he needs to know the cause in the first place.

 

[wilc]

Get what you're saying Shayne but I think he really needs to find the source of the problem, leak stop isn't a fix it's just a way of hiding the problem.

Appreciate it's working for you but as you're going to change the seal anyway it's not really comparable, Wilc doesn't know what the problem is so can't use it as stop gap until he gets a chance to properly repair and to do that he needs to know the cause in the first place.

Exactly!! but how to find out the real cause is the question i guess ill do the bypass ATF cooler and see if it help first

 

[wilc]

if its just Head or head gasket gone, overheating, breaking down, boiling over, then at least u know what u dealing with, shes driving fine, no overheat, no loss of power, thats annoying

 

[Shayne]

Oil and coolant are mixing either in the rad or at the head if it can't be cured with 20 quids worth of leak stop a new rad won't help either , if its a head problem its cost you 20 quid to diagnose . If it does cure the problem you know you need to order a new rad .

 

[stumog]

A new rad might fix the problem if that's what is wrong with the cruiser.

If it was me and I didn't know to much I would have the cruiser checked over by someone that is trustworthy and not just willing to change bits to start with.

You need to pressure test the different parts that may be causing you issues which will be either the engine, rad or the gearbox oil system.

Where abouts are you based? Can we have a picture of how much sludge you have as some people worry to much as some engines it can just be a bit of build up that can be wiped away and an eye kept in it.

Stu

 

[Towpack]

Oil and coolant are mixing either in the rad or at the head if it can't be cured with 20 quids worth of leak stop a new rad won't help either , if its a head problem its cost you 20 quid to diagnose . If it does cure the problem you know you need to order a new rad .

Going down the Leak Stop route still leaves some guesswork remaining. If it does cure it how will you know for sure if it's the rad or the head?

 

[karl webster]

Oil and water mix can also be a cracked block.

obviously do the easy things first.

 

[Shayne]

Reading back through this there is nothing to suggest coolant is making its way into engine oil , drain the gearbox and i bet the oil comes out like grey soup .

Buttons broke so i can't copy and paste search youtube for MDX coolant oil mixing

 

[StarCruiser]

Yuk!! Just watched that. I haven't got that, at all. But my ATF level has got higher. The gearbox dipstick joint was leaking ATF until I replaced the O ring, perhaps there was condensation getting in. Looks like I need to take the connections off the rad or at least have a look and see. As for Wilc, I wish him luck and to troubleshoot before applying any leakstop fixes, for once you clean away the evidence, the crime becomes far harder to solve.

 

[wilc]

pissing down here today plus worked last 2 nights i was totally knackered, thanks for all the input guys, ill check my dip stick for the transmission oil tomorrow, and also take a pic of the build up sludge in the bottle tomorrow, i know sometimes people get over worried for something on their vehicle, but this sort of build up i have definitely not seen before, its thick, dark brown oil sludge sticks to things. i get frustrated when i go to a garage to raise a concern and all they suggest is to change this and that first because they are cheaper to replace, without making effort to identify the real problem, but i also understand sometimes its not as easy as i think to do that.

Karl - u mentioned that oil/coolant mix could be a cracked blocked, but would that build up pressure or overheat etc?

the thing is my truck is running well so far, and my mate suggested that the HG can either be gone or not.

Im based in Eastleigh, just outside southampton and i did make a post asking for reputable local mechanic with LC a month or 2 ago but not much response i received. i dont mind spending reasonable money to fix the problem as i love my 80, but i would really love to go to someone who knows what they are doing if possible.

 

[StarCruiser]

The thing is Wilc, there's not that many garages people know and trust as many on here do their own work on their trucks.

I think the thing to do is gentle pressure testing between systems mixed with a bit of ATF draining and checking for any sign of water there.

This is it for me, and correct me if in wrong here, but thoughts are that we have two systems, one that becomes pressurised when heated (engine cooling system) and one that is vented (auto box). For my money I would expect that which gets pressurised (coolant) to be pushed into that which is vented (ATF). So, as Shayne has said earlier, if I drain my auto box I should find a mix of water and ATF.

Wilc on the other hand has oil in the radiator. To my way of thinking this has to be from oil at higher pressure than the pressure within the cooling system. The only oil that is at high pressure is engine oil in the pressure galleries and pipes.

But of course the cooling system varies in pressure from nothing to max. So there could be a time when the coolant is at higher pressure than the oil, but on short runs it is lower. One other place that oil and coolant are close by is the turbo as they are water cooled but what chance there is I wouldn't know.

You could take the rad cap off and start it from cold and see what appears. The coolant level will naturally rise of course but you should start getting oil in there if my understanding is right.

 

[wilc]

thin oil and small mayo at rad cap yea, nothing like those in the expansion bottle thick and nasty, we ran the truck from cool to warm with rad cap off, from cold coolant to steaming coolant with cap off, thin oily film showing thats all, we squeezed some of the coolant out in order to do the sniff test cos coolant cant touch or get sucked into the tester at all. ill take some pics tomorrow and report back, u guys may be able to tell more with actual images i hope lol, but am really thankful for all the inputs guys.

mine is the 24v 4.5 petrol so no turbo

 

[Shayne]

Rad is pressurized when hot pushing water into oil and when the engine is stopped it cools and becomes a vacuum sucking oil in . Oil floats on water so when it gets hot again the extra fluid at the top of the rad gets pushed into the expansion bottle . Hows that for a theory .

 

[karl webster]

pissing down here today plus worked last 2 nights i was totally knackered, thanks for all the input guys, ill check my dip stick for the transmission oil tomorrow, and also take a pic of the build up sludge in the bottle tomorrow, i know sometimes people get over worried for something on their vehicle, but this sort of build up i have definitely not seen before, its thick, dark brown oil sludge sticks to things. i get frustrated when i go to a garage to raise a concern and all they suggest is to change this and that first because they are cheaper to replace, without making effort to identify the real problem, but i also understand sometimes its not as easy as i think to do that.

Karl - u mentioned that oil/coolant mix could be a cracked blocked, but would that build up pressure or overheat etc?

the thing is my truck is running well so far, and my mate suggested that the HG can either be gone or not.

Im based in Eastleigh, just outside southampton and i did make a post asking for reputable local mechanic with LC a month or 2 ago but not much response i received. i dont mind spending reasonable money to fix the problem as i love my 80, but i would really love to go to someone who knows what they are doing if possible.

Ive seen and heard of different things happening. In your case it may be just a little oil contaminated in the water.

Ive seen water mixed with oil but only in the water side not in the engine oil. Could be totally fine mate. I'm just saying to others really that something like this may not be a head or head gasket issue. I've seen it with scrap blocks as well.

 

[Bat21]

Wilc, with your engine stone cold start her up and allow to tick over for no more than 20/30 seconds, then switch off.

Then pop the bonnet, and release the rad cap. If there is ANY pressure there at all then you have a fairly major problem.

The symptoms you are describing are exactly what I was getting a few years ago.... but mine is a diesel.

And the result is?

 

[frank rabbets]

Bat's got a very important test there.

 

[wilc]

 

[wilc]

Coolant turned green cos my mate put some dye in trying to see if it's leaking for the loss of coolant, no sign of oil on both engine oil and atf dip stick, the bottle was cleaned again about 2 weeks ago so not showing to much sludge but u can see the residual there of slow build up again

 

[Dave2000]

TBH this is looking like the beginning of a head gasket or similar but, I would disconnect the transmission cooler anyway and link the pipes. Then keep an eye on the union holes left in the radiator NO water should come out of the holes. By doing this you have removed the pressurisation brought about by the gearbox front pump, this will allow the transmission cooler (now at atmospheric) to let a leak through and show at the pipe unions you have left open. This will do a number of things, the first will isolate the transmission oil from the radiator, secondly the now exposed unions will start to leak, it is a good idea to have a good strong antifreeze mix, this will show leaks sooner.

If the unions show no water then the rad can be called good, the transmission will be fine and this leaves you with engine oil in the coolant. The classic misfire when a head gasket fails if absent tells the inexperienced that the head gasket is ok, the reality is the fire ring around the combustion chamber may well be sound but, there may be seep in the head gasket or a crack in the head/block, the head/block cracks normally arise after procrastinating for too long and localised overheating continues to do more damage, what started as a head gasket soon becomes a head or block, you need to follow a plan and stick to it when trying to diagnose elusive problems like this.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

This is it for me, and correct me if in wrong here, but thoughts are that we have two systems, one that becomes pressurised when heated (engine cooling system) and one that is vented (auto box). For my money I would expect that which gets pressurised (coolant) to be pushed into that which is vented (ATF). So, as Shayne has said earlier, if I drain my auto box I should find a mix of water and ATF.
Wilc on the other hand has oil in the radiator. To my way of thinking this has to be from oil at higher pressure than the pressure within the cooling system. The only oil that is at high pressure is engine oil in the pressure galleries and pipes.

Unfortunately there are THREE pressurised systems, engine oil pressure, cooling system AND the auto gearbox, the sump and general innards of the auto trans are at atmospheric however, there is a pump at the front, this pump provides pressure for the valve chest and a pressurised line to the cooler in the rad, hence my suggestion to narrow it down using the bypass method.

regards

Dave