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[GeekOKent]

Couple of things to keep in mind here guys....

No one really wants to die. Humans are easily manipulated, especially when the indoctrination happens as a normal. Even easier when there is suffering or the idea of oppression to back it up.

What happened in Paris is terrible. It's no worse or better than many such acts of terrorism that take place around the world. And in every case, its politics and money that's the real driver.

This is just the modern age dacoitry, delivered by people acting under influence of very very twisted visions of reality. For goals and targets never really understood by any of the direct victims.

But stay safe out there on travels, sometimes that may mean creating safety for yourself.

 

[Shayne]

Sadly the scale of a war is measured in collateral damage . A conflict of willing opponents without collateral damage is a civilized contest .

 

[StarCruiser]

It's a good point KB, I've found myself thinking what I might do if caught up in something similar, and independently so has Lynn. Reading an account of someone in the concert hall seemed to echo my thoughts. Get down, get out, get help. Not all would be possible and I guess there is no definitive answer.

I think it is time the 'west' or the Christian based countries, take the Islamic call many years ago for a 'Jihad' seriously that they have decreed war on us and ARE at war with us, like it or not. It is, however, a new type of war with no uniforms, military structure or country per se or despotic leader (not like the last world war). The response needs to be tailored and enough to send a definite message that this sort of thing is unacceptable.

 

[Chas]

To the COWARDS behind the Paris atrocities this is what Allah says in the Quran about the magnitude of your crime.
We ask Allah to rid the world of your kind.

 

[Shayne]

but how many others will die, kill one and dozens will take their place, death is not a deterrent.

Killing a known killer does not create fear and is not a deterrent . The response needs to be terrifying on a disproportionate scale if it is to be effective .

Russia is sending 150,000 troops in to wipe out Isis in Syria , with i imagine the consent of all political leaders on this side of the fence on a nudge wink basis . That's all well and good for a knee jerk a show of strength but it will allow for a propaganda frenzy on both sides of the fence which will only add fuel to the fire .

Propaganda and recruitment would become far more difficult in the shadow of fear if a ridiculously large number of Isis "suspects" elsewhere got dead in the next few weeks as well .

There is nothing new in covert or guerrilla warfare and a brutal reminder that we can do it too would create fear .

 

[froggy Steve]

Nothing wrong with a 'double tap' to the back of the head on a known member or supporter of isis. SAS could take a few hundred out in a couple of weeks in UK alone.

The times of a fair trial and keeping them locked up for ever while before it happens is past.

I feel a little right of Attila the Hun today

 

[Crispin]

Nothing wrong with a 'double tap' to the back of the head on a known member or supporter of isis. SAS could take a few hundred out in a couple of weeks in UK alone.

The times of a fair trial and keeping them locked up for ever while before it happens is past.

I feel a little right of Attila the Hun today

French PM Manuel Valls told radio station RTL that more than 150 searches have taken place across the country in the wake of terror attacks in Paris on Friday.


Thirteen of them took place in and around Lyon, according to TV station Bfmtv, where rocket launcher, a flak jacket, pistols and a Kalashnikov assault rifle were found and five people were held.

That's 300 rounds they need now then.

 

[frank rabbets]

It's war. We believe we are right and kill them and vice versa.

 

[Crispin]

Doesn't that just sum up all the complexities.

 

[Shayne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR2VC9Tl1Fs

 

[Rob Cowell]

Killing a known killer does not create fear and is not a deterrent . The response needs to be terrifying on a disproportionate scale if it is to be effective .

Russia is sending 150,000 troops in to wipe out Isis in Syria , with i imagine the consent of all political leaders on this side of the fence on a nudge wink basis . That's all well and good for a knee jerk a show of strength but it will allow for a propaganda frenzy on both sides of the fence which will only add fuel to the fire .

I don't think this is quite correct. Russia did announce they were looking to conscript 150,000 into its army earlier in the year, but that was to make up shortfalls it what there recently aspirational military reviews had identified. Can't help when all your trained fighters keep taking extended holidays in the Ukraine, playing with Buk missiles they bought at the local B&Q.

Looks like the Mail and the Express put two and two together and made sensationalist headlines.

I'd be amazed if Russia sent in many ground troops. Their record of fighting Muslim guerilla groups isn't wonderful, although at least these ones probably aren't being backed by the CIA. I think they're just in it for the bombing and to make sure they keep one of Putin's alies in power in the region.

Totally agree with you that it will do nothing for more extreme Islamic propaganda though. They're doing their best to provoke a reaction, and they're looking increasingly likely to get one.

 

[GeekOKent]

Killing people is easy, killing the idea is harder. Killing an idea built on people being killed is even harder to kill by killing people.

 

[clivehorridge]

It's become a tit for tat exchange, as it often does, so-called retaliation for the western or non Islamic alliance's "indiscriminate" attacks on Isis in Syria.

Neither "side" will ever admit to their attacks as being cowardly, both are justified in their own blinkered eyes.

The initial "cause" soon forgotten, yet the legacy will live on for generations.

It goes without saying that such atrocities as Paris suffered can never be justified.

 

[frank rabbets]

Our side killed tens of thousands of civilians during the Iraq war alone. They were not targeted but we new they would be killed.

 

[Chris]

The problem here is that you cannot begin to understand someone by looking at them through your own eyes. We can't judge other people by simply applying our own morals and limitations.
Here, to be devoutly Christian means going to church at Christmas. Once a year, regular as clockwork. Not exactly fanatics are we. Even those who don't believe at all (like me) still love Christmas presents! We are profligate as a society, consuming and wasting like there was no tomorrow not to mention the porn and so on. So I can see why some people would find us figures of hate. Honestly I can. I have no desire to be blown up just because a took a cheeky peek at Nuts this week though.

Look at our passion - Cruisers. Who would be prepared to really stand and fight face to face if the government banned 4x4's like it banned pistols. OK we marched through London and waved a few banners but as a protest it counted for nothing. Who here would be prepared to bomb a building for something they believed in? I know I wouldn't. I don't believe in anything (not even mature cheese and good beer) strongly enough to throw away my freedom or kill others.

Whether brainwashed or whatever we think motivates these particular terrorists, these people have a fundamental belief that is so much stronger than you or I will ever understand. Yes of course I think they are wrong, but you won't convince them otherwise. To fight them, I think that the world needs to try and think like them. Which will take some doing. We'll be introducing even more checks at the airport looking in people's shoes and making grannies turn out their handbags. It's an utter nonsense. We all know where we should be looking and acting. More of the same security isn't what we need. But the alternative is socially unpalatable. Or that's what the politicians probably think whilst they're counting their votes. Look at what the French turned up today. Bloody rocket launchers. You're not telling me that was fresh intelligence. Same as the aerial bombings. They must have all sorts of intel on these people. Just hit the lot now in one big operation across the world. It won't get them all but it'll knock them back a bit. As long as we all promise not to moan when they accidentally hit a school or something.

I just really struggle to understand just quite why the feel that the French are such a worthy target. It's not like they have been at the forefront of every military action in recent years. If France is at the top it makes me wonder where Britain and America are on the list.

 

[Shayne]

Stereotypical France is all love and decadence , perfect for Isis propaganda .

No sane person wants war but when an insane person declares it no compromise not even total surrender will satisfy the instigators want .

How many lives did the Hiroshima Bomb ..........save

 

[Bat21]

.... how many lives did the Hiroshima Bomb ..........save

I'm liking your thinking here

 

[Shayne]

I don't advocate a bomb just the mentality behind it .

 

[Graham]

Good job in the showing the support.

For me this is the new normal.... When going to Africa, I have often been asked about if I consider the danger... For me I have never felt danger there...Truth is the world is a horrible place with religion and politics destroying the harmony of people. I am so happy that we live in the mountains away from "targets"

God help us all where this is going.

On a side note the borders of France are truly locked down. Tonight the missus went to Geneva, normally a 24 minute journey, it took 2 hours to cross the border.... On Monday there is 120000 of us that live in France and work in Geneva, Switzerland, not sure how that's going to work....

Which one, ?

There is no god, no gods,
all started of fecking golden idols.
all bullshit in my opinion.

Not getting at you,
It's just the first mention of some body no one has ever met,
some reason millions of people have been killed for what?

I think every on should feck all this god crap off for, once and for all.

Ranting...

 

[Shayne]

A war against religion would be a war against freedom that's why our leaders are sprouting rubbish trying to get the masses to understand it is terrorism we are fighting and religion has nothing to do with it .

They are fanatics and religion is just the excuse they chose , Hitler didn't believe in God but hated Christianity . Excuses for insanity same as the psychopath who listened to the voices in his head .