As many of you know, I have been a staunch supporter and advocate for Milners over the years as I believe they are doing a great job in bringing service items and consumables to Japanese 4x4 owners at affordable prices. In many cases supplying genuine parts at better than main dealer prices and pattern parts which give more than adequate service for a fraction of the cost. I actually still believe that. It is fair to say that some of their products are not as good as we'd like and can let you down in terms of longevity or at very least ease and accuracy when fitting. They have always made it clear to me that 'bitching about items in the background' and not coming forward means that they are blissfully ignorant of any problem and that they are deprived of the opportunity to make adjustments etc. I have had one or two minor complaints myself and after a little pushing have received a generally satisfactory outcome. The exception being a faulty alternator that boiled my batteries on the first outing. Yes I got a new one, but never even received an offer of a discount on a replacement battery that hitherto had been perfect.
However, my faith has been dented this week in terms of customer service following a complaint. I bought a rad from them that turned out to be less than satisfactory. I needed it urgently as I was two days away from going on holiday. The faults were:
The frame was too wide to fit between the chassis members
The bottom bracket bolts on the rad were opposite handed and didn't fit the OE positions
The battery box had to be cut away to accommodate the header
The distance between the top and bottom mounts was 20mm out
The auto box connections were at an incorrect angle for the hoses
So not good - but by all accounts the correct unit. I complained, naturally. All I received was sympathy from the sales counter. I complained again this week and asked for the complaint to be escalated to their service team. Be aware that MOR is not a tin pot outfit, but a substantial premises. Here is the response that I received and my original mail.
I shall leave it to you to judge whether this is a satisfactory response.
So can I ask you then just what is Milner doing about my complaint? Perhaps
you'd like the radiator back? Sorry XXX but that simply isn't good enough.
The mounting holes didn't match up, the unit was too wide to fit in the gap
between the cross member? If I hadn't been going on holiday I would most
certainly have returned it. I was pretty cross. Now, would you believe it,
my starter motor has gone. Clearly my first choice would be to come and see
you. Another £200! Now I always get fantastic service off you and you know
that I appreciate that very much, and this might be out of your hands in
terms of a complaint so I would appreciate you escalating this matter. I
praise your company continually on various Land Cruiser forums, but this
sort of advertising works both ways. Would I recommend that anyone looking
for a radiator for an 80 should come to you first? Well I shall leave that
your customer service dept to ponder. As you can probably tell, XXXX, I am
pretty cross and more than a little disappointed. That product was very
poor. I appreciate that you have sold many and had very few complaints.
Maybe the holes on my Landcruiser are simply different to every other one
made? I raise these matters with you not just because I have had problems,
but in order for your company to have the opportunity to improve its
products and services to the customers that you serve. This could have been
a new batch or different supplier possibly. Word travels fast when products
are sub standard like this. There are plenty of threads out there already in
terms of what products from Milner are though to be good and which are rated
as poor.
In the meantime I shall be sourcing a starter motor from someone else.
Response
Good Morning Chris
I do understand how you feel about this I too would be the same
I'm sorry I do not have any means off checking a rad here as we don’t have
the front panel to put it into
I can only go off sales of the parts
Regarding bringing the rad back I don’t have a problem with that at all that
is up to you (Please don’t bring it back in 6 months time)
I can not stop you writing things about us in the owners clubs that is left
with you.
I'm sorry for any problem it has caused. No doubt I we see you at some stage
Now you might be asking, "well what do you want?' Well, in terms of customer service, I always believed that asking what the customer actually wanted was a good starting point and you then work toward a mutual agreement. Just giving me my money back isn't sufficient. No, I am not after compensation I am after satisfaction. I have the original rad - did they ask to see that? No? did they want to know what adjustments I had made? No. Did they make any checks at all? No. In short I have had to get unpleasant in order for them to just simply offer a refund.
You may say 'well that's what you get if you buy a big ticket item that's not original.' I don't see that as valid. OK there may be quality issues such as product life on pattern parts - but surely they should fit! The fact that I had to mess about with it and will now have to mess about to take it out again and get one from somewhere else should, you would think, spark some sort of dialog in terms of an apology.
Moral is that Milner provide a prompt and courteous service, good prices on many vital parts, some slightly poor replacements and terrible after sales. So it's all good unless you have a complaint and want more than a straight replacement or refund for the part bought. I'd hate to think what they'd say if you put there BEBs in and had an engine failure.
Will I use them again in the future, yes but I will be very wary of anything other than simple parts. You may of course make up your own minds. I am going to pull the rad despite the time and messing around, more than anything to ram home the point that I am unhappy with the product and they are getting it back. I could trim the sides and I have altered the brackets, but as they fail to acknowledge that, they can lose the sale. I will be using Autokool in Chesterfield who even reference the Toyota OE number and are a few quid cheaper to boot.
By way of a thread, as doubtless people will contribute may I suggest that we keep it to a list of parts that are good and worth buying and those that are not. That way it will be balanced.
Clearly 80 rads, Hilux rads (previous experience) and 90 alternators would be on my list of 'avoid'. Also some exhaust sections.
Good stuff includes:
ARB bushes and drop links for 90s
Light clusters for 90s
Oil and filters - I have had NO problems with these ever.
Handbrake cables
Timing belts
Chris
However, my faith has been dented this week in terms of customer service following a complaint. I bought a rad from them that turned out to be less than satisfactory. I needed it urgently as I was two days away from going on holiday. The faults were:
The frame was too wide to fit between the chassis members
The bottom bracket bolts on the rad were opposite handed and didn't fit the OE positions
The battery box had to be cut away to accommodate the header
The distance between the top and bottom mounts was 20mm out
The auto box connections were at an incorrect angle for the hoses
So not good - but by all accounts the correct unit. I complained, naturally. All I received was sympathy from the sales counter. I complained again this week and asked for the complaint to be escalated to their service team. Be aware that MOR is not a tin pot outfit, but a substantial premises. Here is the response that I received and my original mail.
I shall leave it to you to judge whether this is a satisfactory response.
So can I ask you then just what is Milner doing about my complaint? Perhaps
you'd like the radiator back? Sorry XXX but that simply isn't good enough.
The mounting holes didn't match up, the unit was too wide to fit in the gap
between the cross member? If I hadn't been going on holiday I would most
certainly have returned it. I was pretty cross. Now, would you believe it,
my starter motor has gone. Clearly my first choice would be to come and see
you. Another £200! Now I always get fantastic service off you and you know
that I appreciate that very much, and this might be out of your hands in
terms of a complaint so I would appreciate you escalating this matter. I
praise your company continually on various Land Cruiser forums, but this
sort of advertising works both ways. Would I recommend that anyone looking
for a radiator for an 80 should come to you first? Well I shall leave that
your customer service dept to ponder. As you can probably tell, XXXX, I am
pretty cross and more than a little disappointed. That product was very
poor. I appreciate that you have sold many and had very few complaints.
Maybe the holes on my Landcruiser are simply different to every other one
made? I raise these matters with you not just because I have had problems,
but in order for your company to have the opportunity to improve its
products and services to the customers that you serve. This could have been
a new batch or different supplier possibly. Word travels fast when products
are sub standard like this. There are plenty of threads out there already in
terms of what products from Milner are though to be good and which are rated
as poor.
In the meantime I shall be sourcing a starter motor from someone else.
Response
Good Morning Chris
I do understand how you feel about this I too would be the same
I'm sorry I do not have any means off checking a rad here as we don’t have
the front panel to put it into
I can only go off sales of the parts
Regarding bringing the rad back I don’t have a problem with that at all that
is up to you (Please don’t bring it back in 6 months time)
I can not stop you writing things about us in the owners clubs that is left
with you.
I'm sorry for any problem it has caused. No doubt I we see you at some stage
Now you might be asking, "well what do you want?' Well, in terms of customer service, I always believed that asking what the customer actually wanted was a good starting point and you then work toward a mutual agreement. Just giving me my money back isn't sufficient. No, I am not after compensation I am after satisfaction. I have the original rad - did they ask to see that? No? did they want to know what adjustments I had made? No. Did they make any checks at all? No. In short I have had to get unpleasant in order for them to just simply offer a refund.
You may say 'well that's what you get if you buy a big ticket item that's not original.' I don't see that as valid. OK there may be quality issues such as product life on pattern parts - but surely they should fit! The fact that I had to mess about with it and will now have to mess about to take it out again and get one from somewhere else should, you would think, spark some sort of dialog in terms of an apology.
Moral is that Milner provide a prompt and courteous service, good prices on many vital parts, some slightly poor replacements and terrible after sales. So it's all good unless you have a complaint and want more than a straight replacement or refund for the part bought. I'd hate to think what they'd say if you put there BEBs in and had an engine failure.
Will I use them again in the future, yes but I will be very wary of anything other than simple parts. You may of course make up your own minds. I am going to pull the rad despite the time and messing around, more than anything to ram home the point that I am unhappy with the product and they are getting it back. I could trim the sides and I have altered the brackets, but as they fail to acknowledge that, they can lose the sale. I will be using Autokool in Chesterfield who even reference the Toyota OE number and are a few quid cheaper to boot.
By way of a thread, as doubtless people will contribute may I suggest that we keep it to a list of parts that are good and worth buying and those that are not. That way it will be balanced.
Clearly 80 rads, Hilux rads (previous experience) and 90 alternators would be on my list of 'avoid'. Also some exhaust sections.
Good stuff includes:
ARB bushes and drop links for 90s
Light clusters for 90s
Oil and filters - I have had NO problems with these ever.
Handbrake cables
Timing belts
Chris