1993 80 series Landcruiser: Water leaking down A Posts either side of windscreen from sunroof.

[Samson77]

On motorway in torrential rain it fills the sills with water - you can hear it sloshing about, Fortunately have bungs (where I injected waxy) to remove / let the water out. Have had the drain 'tubes' blown through (maybe off - could that be the problem?) by my mechanic who says there's the sound of air escaping half way down level with the bottom of the windscreen, And also checked by Toyota main dealer (unbelievable £150 per hour) who poured water around the sunroof and because some came out at the bottom of the tube it was AOK! In the meantime there's still water filling the floor pan and splashing across the interior plastic side trim and - worse - the electrics.

I did have the inner and outer wings taken off and the inner wing rust cut out and new metal reshaped. Is there any way the cabin could be taking in water from the wheel arches because the inner wings have been incorrectly reinstalled or is it a sealed unit (after all the inner and outer wings are stand-alone bolt-ons) so no water can ingress through the front bulkhead? I haven't had a problem from jet washing for example.

Access to the tubes without peeling back the interior trim seems to be a problem.
And if the tubes need re-attaching or even replacing how is that done: pulling new ones through with a wire?
Or do I have to take the wings off again and will that give me access to the tubes or are they only accessible from the other side for the bulkhead?
My Haynes Manual doesn't give me detail on any of this btw.

Thanks - and Happy New Year
Nick

 

[StarCruiser]

Happy New Year Nick,

I’ve had this as a possible diagnosis when I had a new windscreen fitted by Autoglass. After I think it was attempt 4 or 5 I decided to do it myself as I could see water seeping around the glass itself in the corners. Unless the rubber is fitted with flexible screen seal (I use a butyl screen sealer from EBay) it will leak. The Toyota manual states to use sealant.
If you do have water coming in from the sunroof, the join is at the top of the windscreen corners and the pipes can be pulled off there. Depending on the roof lining you have it may appear through the lining at that point or below at dash level.
The result (on mine at least) was water inside in the gutter area just inboard from the door cills. Sounds like this is where yours is.

One other possibility is sometimes the ends of the drain tubes get pushed up into the cills rather than just poking out. Sometimes they get blocked. Generally this results in water sloshing round in the sunroof aperture until it pours on your head. The sunroof is designed to leak and to take the water away iirc at front AND rear corners.

Tubes run down the A and C pillars internally.

 

[Samson77]

Thanks very much StarCruiser
Good info....

So for sure no chance of water being forced through the bulkhead somewhere?
There's nothing wrong with my windscreen. No water on top of the dash or in the corners.
No water on my head either.
No water coming through on the headlining.
But lots of water in the footwell
As well as going straight in to the cills.
Where do the rear drain tubes (C pillars) pop out under the car?

How do you check the tubes are connected?
How do you replace damaged / perished tubes?

For sure no chance of water being forced through the bulkhead somewhere?

 

[Sarmajornz]

The rear sunroof drain tubes exit the vehicle behind the rear wheels.
The front sunroof drain tubes run down the A pillars into the sill cavities on each side. The sills have the bungs fitted from the factory but also have slit drains that shoul allow the water to continuously drain from them. These are usually blocked but can be cleared using a cable tie of a bit of wire. It can be a bit of a bugger as the years of accumulated dust will take a bit to work out of there. if you have the factory side steps and don’t wheel in deep water you could leave the front most factory bung out and see if this reduces or stops the water problem.
The other place the the sun roof can let water in is at the front corners where there is a small piece of plastic that covers where the drive cable comes through the frame of the sun roof. These small bits of plastic sometimes gets bit bent out of shape and send water the wrong way.

There is lots of information on IH8MUD.Com

 

[Samson77]

Very helpful Sarmajornz thank you...

Now understand that the tubes running down the A posts into the sills will naturally fill the sills with water from the tubes.
Yes with the front bung out the water flows out freely.
The slit drains have been blocked by a well meaning 'mechanic' / fabricator who coated the whole of the undercarriage in lots of stone chip and waxoyl. I reckon the rear tubes will have been blocked too, as the rear cargo carpet is damp too.
I will have to attend to the blockages in the Spring....

Please confirm my thought process: If the A pillar tubes were blocked I would have a damp headlining and water running onto the centre console?
I don't have that.

But water is definitely coming down the inside of the passenger A pillar and showing in tiny trails across the passenger side footplate - and lying in the footwell under the carpet. The wiring loom is damp too, so may well be coming from the out of shape front corner plastics you mention.
Are replacement bits of plastic available or can I just have them bent back into shape?

PROVIDING the water's not actually coming through the bulkhead as water thrown up into the wheel arch.
Is the bulkhead / cabin section a sealed 'waterproof' unit unaffected by whether front wings - inner and outer - are attached or not?
In other words the wings dont need sealing to the sills or bulkhead?

So many questions - thanks for everyone's help.
I have to say apart from this water / leaking problem (only apparent since the wings off and heavy anti-rust treatment of the chassis / suspension, steering and drivetrain) the truck has been totally reliable and well worth the £17k total I've spent on it.

 

[Samson77]

 

[Dave]

The plastic in the sunroof drain surround in the front corners also splits/breaks.

 

[stumog]

I am having the same problems as you. I have sealed my windscreen where it leaks but I still have a leak. This is coming in from behind heater box. Is water not antifreeze. For the life of me I can't think where it would be coming from. Interestingly though I have also fitted new front wings so they may have to come off again.

 

[Samson77]

That's a new worry for me Stumog - or is it
For the last few weeks my LC has been sitting in the rain albeit protected from water entering through the sunroof.
If water was entering from behind the heater box would have to enter via the drain under the grill / wiper box in front of the windscreen, so yes your leak must be windscreen related... My footwells are dry in spite of all the rain...

 

[Samson77]

Hi Dave - where / how can I order a 'new' replacement drain surround?
Are they these which I have been referred to by a guy on IH8MUD in Australia (see below):






63255 COVER, SLIDING ROOF GUIDE RAIL, RH


63255‑60010 (01/1990 - 10/1995) 1 $12.06


63255‑60011 (11/1995 - 12/1997) 1 $11.47





63256 COVER, SLIDING ROOF GUIDE RAIL, LH


63256‑60010 (01/1990 - 10/1995) 1 $12.06


63256‑60011 (11/1995 - 12/1997) 1 $11.47

 

[Sarmajornz]

The wings don't need sealing to the body. The water can leak from the front corners of the sunroof (not the drains, further in board. The headlining is waterproof so the water can run down without leaving wetness or staining.
My truck is getting a new windscreen tomorrow as the old one has a stone chip and is leaking between the rubber and the glass. Water is visible coming in at the bottom corners of the glass and drips onto my foot / leg. Hopefully that will stop the water coming into my truck.

for those parts above try Amayama or Megazip. They have a vast number of parts. Loooks like the earlier version parts are NLA but the later version parts are available. You can just silicone seal everything under them and then reinstall the parts and put a thin layer os silicone over the edges where they join the main frame. Seam like the water sneaks in where the foam seal is on the rear outside end of these parts.

 

[Samson77]

Very helpful Sarmajornz - Big Thank you.
A long shot: Don't suppose you know of a Landcruiser 'expert' in South East Kent?
I can write Reports but sadly I am a banana-fingers-hands-off kinda guy

 

[Dave]

No, I think the corners are part of the main ’tray’. I seem to remeber I ordered something that looked right, but were not. In the end a think I used silicone instead.

 

[Samson77]

Thanks Dave - Good to know the issue can be fixed / jury-rigged with seam sealer if the corners don't work

 

[Samson77]

I've tried both MegaZip and Amayama - DISCONTINUED.
Mike at ChapelGate is having a try too - but looks like I'll be buying some seam sealer pretty soon

 

[Towpack]

I've had both problems in the past, blocked (rear) drain tubes and sill drains. When the rear drains became blocked I got drenched in water when backing off the drive facing up hill. I pulled the drain tubes off and poked them through with some stiff wire initially, then connected the tube ends to a garden hose and flushed them out. When one of the sill drains became blocked and parked on the drive facing downhill this time, the water in the sill overflowed into the passenger footwell. Initially I was looking for leaks round the windscreen until I removed the internal trim plate from the sill to lift and dry the carpet and saw a reflection from the water in the sill through one of the plate fixing holes! I check those drains regularly now.

 

[Samson77]

This is very interesting Towpack - thanks for responding.

Big question(s):
Whereabouts did you "pull the drain tubes off"?
Presumably at the top on either side of the sunroof?
I have water 'falling down' from under the dash on the extreme left of the passenger footwell almost in line with the A post
So that streaks of water are on the plastic / leatherette side trim and the flat carpet area is soaked (not the carpet against the bulkhead).

I understood from an 'expert' that to detach the tubes you have to remove the panel and lining around the A posts get access to the tube on the inside? Is that the case?

My mechanic - who possibly caused a partial detachment of the tube by using an airline to clear a blockage - says the tube is draining into the sill (it now runs out of the open bung hole OK) but it still doesn't explain why the leaking onto the side panel and into the footwell ....

It's pathetic that I don't jump up onto the roof and have a look myself but age and a dodgy knee are sufficient discouragement.
While the number of local garages disinterested in 'going down a rabbit warren' (as in where will the job end up and after how many hours) are legion.

 

[Dave2000]

Talcum powder! Pull the carpets back from the bulkhead (easier than you think), and puff talcum powder (brand/scent your choice) under the dashboard and anywhere else you think there is a leak. Water running through the talcum powder will harden and leave a trail for you to trace back. If that doesn't work at least your car will smell nice!

Regards

Dave

 

[Towpack]

I dropped the headlining to expose the sunroof drain tubes on each corner. Open the sunroof and pour some water into the drainage channels. Obviously, you should see the water drain freely from the end of the tubes at the rear or from the sill drains at the front and nowhere else. I also had a small leak on the driver's side into the footwell after washing the car or during heavy rain. It left a trail down the inside of the bulkhead past the accelerator. That turned out to be through the large cable grommet under the bonnet on the top of the bulkhead. After struggling to pinpoint the leak I found it by using a smoke machine inside the car with all doors and windows closed.

 

[Sarmajornz]

The other place water can leak into the truck is behind the brackets that the inner guards bolt up to. The brackets have a groove on the top that lets water in and a bung on the bottom to keep it in.
Bead cases can rust through the firewall.
Remove the bung (throw it away) and clean out whatever is in there and rustkill then wax or lanotec the area.
lucky for me there was only dust in there and a bit of surface rust.
Trucks in the USA where they salt the roads for snow removal suffer quite badly.