1hd-ft engine rebuild

[dellboykev]

Got a quote today for between £2.5 and £4K so it looks like it's going to be a second hand engine

 

[Bodhi]

Gutted for you, it was your new motor as well.

Was it definitely the egr cleaner that causes it?

Richie

 

[dellboykev]

i cant be 100% sure it was the egr cleaner ut you spray this stuff into the inlet with the engine running and as it goes through the engine it makes it knock like mad. I am gutted its going to cost money i cant really afford and i want ed to buy some tyres

 

[frank rabbets]

Was it running OK before then? Does it give the name of the chemical on the can? If it was knocking it could be pre ignition and I have heard of pre ignition causing broken rings on petrol engines but have never proved it by first hand experience and can't quite see the mechanical method of breaking rings this way. I had pre ignition on many petrol engines due to (someone elses) incorrect timing or poor fuel but I've never seen rings being broken.

 

[Shayne]

I use egr cleaner in the intake all the time it's like putting a shot of petrol into the bang , the revs shoot up so short bursts of spray only or it will sound like the pistons might come through the rock cover .

 

[frank rabbets]

It's just occurred to me that if you put a lot of liquid in the inlet then it might do hydraulic damage to the pistons and rings. The pistons cannot compress liquid so if they were locked up against liquid it would possibly shear off the lands sitting between the rings. This would make sense and would cause the drastic symptoms you describe. The clear volume above the pistons on compression is the volume of a cylinder measuring about 94mm x 1.75mm i.e. about 120cc. The amount of cleaner in itself may not have been enough in volume to do the damage but there is a lot of sooty oil in the inlet manifold which the cleaner could wash into the engine. I think this is a good guess as to what has happened.

 

[dellboykev]

its wynns egr3 i have used it in transit vans in work to good effect, you spray it in 2 second bursts in to the inlet the engine knocks and revs its self a bit then you spray again and keep doing it until the can is empty, the only way i think it can snap a ring is the shock load of the fuel/egr cleaner igniting early in the cylinder

 

[Towpack]

I've seen hydraulic lock break a crank and conrods on a diesel escort van that tried to negotiate a flooded road when the intake was submerged but the rings were intact. If hydraulic lock has broken the rings I would expect other damage also. Does the EGR cleaner carry any sort of warning regarding correct use and possible consequences of overdosing etc.? I don't like the idea of all the crud in the inlet tract being forced through the engine so I'd never use one personally. JMO

 

[joinerman]

Does it still turn over on the starter ? if it does do a compression test.

 

[dellboykev]

no there is no warnings on the can and i have emailed wynns but they arnt interested. Yea the car still runs its smoky on startup and misfires but once it is warm it runs ok except for the slight smell of oil due to the blowby but i have fitted a catch can to the breather for now its my daily driver so i have to keep driving it until i get it fixed

 

[clivehorridge]

I can't imagine cleaner doing any damage. Some pre-ignition maybe, but not that would do destructive damage.

Usually, pre-igniting engines will tend to run hotter, but that's when the problem is permanent, usually petrol engines, too lean a mixture and/or timing too advanced.

This can lead to burnt valves and stuff, but a diesel and a 1HD at that?

IMO, sounds highly unlikely.

 

[Trevor]

I don't know what tests your initial garage did but I'd try to establish some basic facts before committing lots of money. If the engine cranks then do a compression test on all 6 cylinders to see if any are badly down, if yes then pull the head and do a visual to try and see how big or little the problem is.

Once you know for sure or at least a fairly good idea of how bad it is, then start costing up your options to fix.

 

[Shayne]

Do these have a pcv valve ?

 

[joinerman]

If you do take the head off fill each bore with some fuel, see if it stays there.

 

[joinerman]

Hmm, reading your last reply you say it smokes on start up & idles rough, sounds more like a valve stem oil seal/seals, once the bore is clear of oil it runs fine !

 

[frank rabbets]

My money is on hydraulic damage. There is an awful lot of loose oily carbon in the inlet manifold of these engines which has been much talked about. If the egr cleaner is designed to clean carboned up egr valves then that's what it's done to the inlet manifold. My dad put Holts piston seal in an engine and a rod came through the block. It obviously sealed the piston lol.

 

[Shayne]

Do these have a pcv valve ?

Edit :- maybe not i'm just trying to imagine what could cause the same symptoms in the hope the broken ring diagnoses is wrong . With that in mind please forgive me for saying a blocked air filter would cause pretty much exactly what you describe in your first post . If it can't get enough air it will suck air from the crank causing a vacuum taking more oil than it should with it . I removed the pcv from my boat for exactly that reason . Could be a rag trapped in the pipework or something ?

 

[dellboykev]

i was going through everything else it could be in the hope it was something in the head like valve seals or injector seals the blowby is causing pressure in the bottom of the engine not a vacuum the garage couldnt do a compression test because a 24 valve doesnt have golw plugs and they didnt have an adapter for the injectors i am probably going to steal my girlfriends car to get to work (she can walk) and take the head off i like the idea of putting fuel in the cylinders because i cant get a compression test hopefully there will be no damage on the bores so fuel leaking will be the only way for me to tell what rings are knackerd

 

[Towpack]

Given your situation this is probably the best way forward. You've got nothing to lose and it will just bring a diagnosis nearer. With the head off to reveal, hopefully, intact bores, it's not much more work to get the pistons out. The sump can be removed in situ to get to the crank and big ends. There's quite a few on here, me included, who've changed the big end bearings with the vehicle on axle stands.

 

[dellboykev]

finally got started on my engine today the bores look good no gouges or deep scratches i can still see the cross hatching and after i remove the carbon there is no ridge so i shouldnt have to take the block for a rebore but i will know for sure when i get my micrometer from work tomorrow just got to get the sump off now