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3 cylinder KZJ70! :(

ModelMakerMan

ModelMakerMan

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Jun 25, 2011
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england
Ive had rough starting, grey smoke on start up until warm, lack of power and low mpg for a while and it been progressively getting worse. I assumed it was the injectors on their way out so today I replaced the injectors but now the engine is only running on three cylinders!?

I made sure to prime the fuel system with the pump on top of the filter, all the connections are tight and I cant see any leaks. Im at a loss for what the problem is and Im getting very frustrated having just spent £200 on new injectors and only made the problem worse!

HELP! :pray:
 
Dave.

Can you get a socket and ratchet onto the c/shaft bolt?

If so, turn the engine over by hand.

You are looking for 4 definite compression strokes which should appear equal.

It's a crude compression test but it gives an indication.

If you get 3 and a space, you need a proper compression test.

With a smoke colour test, white is water, black is over-fuelling, blue is oil. All checks with hot engine. Grey is normal at engine start up.

Try this test.

Warm engine to normal temp.

With engine on idle, crack open each connection to injector. You should get fuel spurting out so cover the connection with cloth. Each opened injector should make engine slow to a 3 cylinder set-up. If not, this is suspect cylinder. Also, if no diesel spurts out, suspect pump.

Have you checked your valve clearances?

You may have had rough running from worn out injectors and you may have a bad injector in the new ones. If you can isolate the bad cylinder and if the injector supplier is local, I would take it/them back for a visual (to you) pressure test.

Roger
 
Cheers Roger,

Turned the c/shaft and got 4 definite compression strokes.

The only smoke Im getting is an acrid grey smoke on start up (lots of it) and puffs of the same grey smoke which seems to be due the the misfire. There is no loss of coolant and no real oil usage.

Ive not checked the valve clearances.

I cracked open the connectors on each injector and got fuel out of all of them. The only one that didnt change the engine speed was no.2 (assuming no.1 is closest to the timing belt?) so Im guessing that injector is faulty?
 
Could you swap the new injector with one of the old ones, see if it makes a difference.

If you are getting fuel though, it doesnt sound like the injector,more like a valve clearance on that piston.

Pete
 
The fuel is getting to the injector but Im not sure its coming out properly. I did think about swapping it with one of the old injectors but Im not sure which ones are any good.

Ill see if I can borrow some feeler gauges and check the clearances.
 
If No.2 is suspect, swap that injector for one of the other 3. If No. 2 still doesn't work it's the cylinder but if the misfire has moved to the cylinder that now has the injector from No. 2 then it's the injector. This is based on you having fuel coming out of each injector top in equal quantities and having enough compression.

Roger
 
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Being sent another injector. :thumbup:

Something else I just thought of is the old injectors (I think that are the original oem set) didnt have copper washers, instead they had a small steel washe in the very bottom of the injector hole which sealed around the base of the nozzle on the same face as the needle. The new ones have a copper washer that fits where you would expect in the injector seat. I removed the steel washers and used the new copper washers. Is this correct?
 
As your talking about copper washers, I have just fitted a new head and with my new head came four upside down top hats(best way to describe) that went in the injector hole first and then the injectors seated inside. When swapping over the injectors to the new head I had no copper washers from the old head. Since then(today) I have taken them all out again as they were weeping and put some washers from my local garage in. He did warm me that adding washers where they don't belong can cause erratic behaviour but it seems to have made no difference so i have left them in.
 
Ok so I got the replacement injector and fitted it but unfortunately it seems the injectors werent causing the excessive grey smoke and rough running till the engine warms up. :(

It runs fine once its warm. MPG is definitely down and it seems to be down on power too.

Not loosing coolant or oil.

So far I have:
Changed the fuel filter
Replaced the glow plugs
Checked the valve clearances
Replaced the injectors
Visually checked fuel pump and lines for leaks
Put 60L of quality diesel in the tank
Fuel pick up from tank was replaced about 4 years ago so should be fine.
Compression feels fine (4 definite compression strokes when turning the crank by hand).

Not sure what else to check really and getting pretty tired of throwing good money after bad. Thinking maybe injection pump timing but Im not sure how to check that on this engine/pump?

Any ideas?
 
Dave.

Just what is your fuel consumption?

Pump timing is critical, far more so than on a petrol motor. To check the timing you need a special tool. The Toyota one costs upwards of £200, but I had a quote of £50 to hire one for the day. I was going to make one but I haven't got round to it yet.

The use of mud terrain tyres in the 285/75-16 size will reduce performance considerably. Before you had a 5 speed box. Now you have got a 4 speed plus overdrive.

Check your acceleration in 4th gear, 50-70 mph and let me know the answer.

Roger
 
MPG has been 16-18mpg over the last few months even when trying to hypermile. Acceleration in 4th gear isnt too great, there is a small hill on my way to work which is in about the same league as a moderate motorway hill which I can only reach 55mph foot flat to the floor in 4th or 5th gear. I would guestimate 50-70 in 4th is about 10-15 secs.

Might have to find somewhere to check the pump timing then, serious lack of funds right now though due to buying a house. Typical the truck is acting up when there is prospect of needing it this winter. :(
 
It's all sounding like the pump now!

I don't know if the mechanical pump is like the mech/elec one the KZE- but on mine it looks like you could loosen the pump a and swing it about a bit to adjust the timing. Time for a mark and move?

Roger is the pump timing tool not just a dti on the pump timing hole?

Ive been playing with the electronic control of the timing on mine and it gives very impressive results.
 
If there are enough people after a specific SST, I wonder if "x" would lend us one for a weekend for a few beer tokens. If there is any interest, I can ask this week when I pay him a visit.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
16-18 mpg is a disaster. I get 25-26 with spirited driving.

You adjust the timing by moving the pump about it's axis. It's fixed by 3 bolts acting within slotted holes.

To check the timing, you affix special service tool 09275-54011 to the pump. You remove the plug bolt from the distributive head on the pump and install the tool and a dial gauge ( the gauge is separate).

It looks a bit of a fiddle and it would be easier if the batteries and their mountings were removed.

I would be interested in the use of the tool if Crispin can arrange it.

Dave, have you checked your boost pressure and how quickly it climbs to it's max? The manual specifies 7.4-9.7 psi at 4,600 rpm. I fitted a gauge on the dash and it recorded approx 10 psi within moments of pushing the pedal.

Roger
 
I definitely be interested in the use of the tool, maybe Ben would like to check his too..... trying to think who else in the club would have a 1KZ-T engine? Or maybe the SST is used for other engines with mechanical fuel pumps too?

@Mike:
Do you think problems with the pump or pump timing (or both)?

@Roger
Best Ive seen from mine in the last year is 22mpg and that was in May!

I dont have a boost gauge but on my test drive yesterday I forgot to re-attach the hose clamp on the hose from the turbo the intake pipe and I was getting a loud whooshing of boost leak just under 2000rpm until I managed to stop and put the clamp back on so I think the turbo is boosting ok.

So would it be worth me marking the current position of the pump and then tweaking it forward or backward a couple of degrees to see if there is any improvement? As long as I mark the current position I could always put it back where it was. Would this cause any problems?
 
Last edited:
ModelMakerMan said:
I definitely be interested in the use of the tool, maybe Ben would like to check his too..... trying to think who else in the club would have a 1KZ-T engine? Or maybe the SST is used for other engines with mechanical fuel pumps too?

@Mike:
Do you think problems with the pump or pump timing (or both)?

@Roger
Best Ive seen from mine in the last year is 22mpg and that was in May!

I dont have a boost gauge but on my test drive yesterday I forgot to re-attach the hose clamp on the hose from the turbo the intake pipe and I was getting a loud whooshing of boost leak just under 2000rpm until I managed to stop and put the clamp back on so I think the turbo is boosting ok.

So would it be worth me marking the current position of the pump and then tweaking it forward or backward a couple of degrees to see if there is any improvement? As long as I mark the current position I could always put it back where it was. Would this cause any problems?
Click to expand...

If you use 2 lines of masking tape, you could produce a mark approx 1mm wide. Then slacken the pump holding bolts and move the pump 1 mm. From then on it's suck it and see.

Roger
 
Grey smoke and rough running on my works van(vauxhall combo diesel) was down to glow plugs not working properly. I know you have changed them but have you checked they are getting power or the timer/relay is working ok? Sorry if you have already done this but my van went back twice before the garage sorted it. The glowplugs should keep working for a set time after starting I believe.
 
ModelMakerMan said:
I definitely be interested in the use of the tool, maybe Ben would like to check his too..... trying to think who else in the club would have a 1KZ-T engine? Or maybe the SST is used for other engines with mechanical fuel pumps too?

@Mike:
Do you think problems with the pump or pump timing (or both)?

@Roger
Best Ive seen from mine in the last year is 22mpg and that was in May!

I dont have a boost gauge but on my test drive yesterday I forgot to re-attach the hose clamp on the hose from the turbo the intake pipe and I was getting a loud whooshing of boost leak just under 2000rpm until I managed to stop and put the clamp back on so I think the turbo is boosting ok.

So would it be worth me marking the current position of the pump and then tweaking it forward or backward a couple of degrees to see if there is any improvement? As long as I mark the current position I could always put it back where it was. Would this cause any problems?
Click to expand...

Yes id be interested in that Dave, thanks. :icon-smile:

Havnt posted on this thread yet because Havnt been able to suggest anything you havnt already tried/been suggested. :oops:

Hope you get it sorted without it costing you too much money. :pray:
 
If anyone would like to use the STT, I have one for this weekend. Unfortunately it is only for this weekend and has to be back on Monday morning. I was also given the service manual / destructions on how to use it.

Have no idea what's involved in using it or how long it would take but there you go - it's here is someone would like to borrow it.
 
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