A little missive about the war on terror.

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You do have free speech laws in the UK I assume (don't
Lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We certainly do have free speech in the UK...........
.............. just so long as what you say doesn't offend our political
masters or the PC brigagde, if you do you get arrested on anti-terrorism
charges!!!!!
Pete
 
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Careful Peter, you're sailing close to the wind mentioning politics. Lol
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:58 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
 
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It smells
antisemitismmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lubo
On Oct 2, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Chas wrote:
 
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Helo guys,
Lets' be realistic - this is a common policy across the whole spectrum
of internet based fora and user groups. It stems from many years of
experience - mixing issues concering politics, religion, race and
suchlike with non-related subjects, such as technology, has never
worked and I don't suppose ELCO is going to be an exception. This is
what makes the internet so dry and boring, but so very, very useful
for finding factual info.
In my view there's no point arguing with Julian about that, so let's
cut it off as he's asked us to do.
How about a pub meet that was mentioned the other day by Chas?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Hi Roman,
I'm still up for a meet-up somewhere, I've had a word with the club manager
where the Twickenham Off-Roaders meet and he says fine, so all we need now
is a date, as I am off work at the moment any date not between 18th & 22nd
Oct would be fine for me.
The actual address is;
The Grasshoppers Rugby Football Club
MacFarlane Lane
Off Syon Lane
Osterley
Middlesex
TW7 5PN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
 
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Hi Reno,
The list rules are pretty straight forward:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/list_rules.html
I can't be bothered to write an extensive list of rules however the
first one covers most of what we have discussed over the last couple of
days.
And this isn't just a wrist slap to you with the quotes in your
signature, Peter should never have posted up the follow up article
which just enflamed the issue.
I would also like to point out that I have had several complaints off
list about this issue along with requests to remove offendors, but as
long as we can drop this issue now and move on I don't think that is
necessary.
If anyone wished to discuss this further please take it off list and
drop a line directly.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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It shall be so.
Sorry to any that took offence at the article I posted; it's a relatively
old and public domain article that I think is bang on the money and it was a
spur of the moment decision to post it in follow up to the preceding mails.
However, it has turned out to be inappropriate apparently and therefore I
apologize.
I will ask though, where now is the line drawn? Is the list to be restricted
to 100% only off-road / landcruiser content? If not then, as I said, where
is the line? This is not a flippant comment, some jokes may offend some
people, an innocent comment may have unthought-of political / religious
ramifications for some people or groups, etc.
There is nothing about the article that I posted for example that appears to
be in breach of the forum rules as posted here:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/list_rules.html
It wasn't impolite or disrespectful to anyone, just an honest assessment of
the state of the world today.
So, serious question - what can and cannot be raised as subject matter or
discussed on here? I'm not trying to stir things but I do like to post, and
to read light hearted comments from time to time and don't want to
accidentally ignite any more flame wars.
Pete
 
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I've been silent to date on this issue.
These are my thoughts.
Primarily this a site for and about Land cruisers and the technical issues
that interest us as owners. To me this includes car problems, overlanding,
off-roading, satnav, etc - all stuff that is relevant to us as owners of
these cars.
I took offence and I know of no one who would think it was 'bang on the
money.'
I think Julian has already answered this. Until the postings last week, this
was certainly the case.
I found it to be disrespectful and far from an honest assessment of the
state of the world I live in. And not for this list.
Jeremy
HDJ81 that was called a Technical by a traffic warden this morning...
 
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OK Jeremy, then I'm very sorry that you found the article offensive.
I've already stated that it was a "mistake" to post it and have apologized.
I agree that this list is predominantly for landcruiser related content but
we have had posts that can be described as "friendly banter" with no 4x4
content in the past so I don't think that my question about permitted
content is inappropriate. All sorts of things can be offensive to some
people that others would find totally innocuous.
I agree it's clear on reflection that overt political or religious musings
are not appropriate for this list but then is a discussion of the political
situation and, say, potential terrorist threat in, oh I don't know,
somewhere that someone might want to overland to, Algeria maybe
inappropriate?
So then.... no jokes, no banter, no mention of Land Rovers or Nissan
Patrols, no mention of religion or race in whatever context... just
Landcruisers then?
Pete
 
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For fear of raising someone's hackles, I shall mention a 'rude' word, Land
Rover, or two words. I went to Brighton yesterday for the Land Rover Owners
Club gathering and they wouldn't let me in because I was driving a
Landcruiser. So I had to park on the street and consequently got a parking
ticket because I didn't realise Brighton charges for parking on a Sunday. I
did manage to buy a set of X-eng's Xlite spots
http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Lite.asp?MID=43 at a show discount though, and very
neat little spots they are too.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
 
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Hello Chas,
I'm not totally surprised about you LR experience. Bet you weren't
dressed in camo?
About the X-eng lamps - what are they good for? Could they be used as
reversing/work lamps?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 10/2/06, Chas <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Hi Peter,
You need to remember that this list covers a multitude of political and
religious boundaries and whilst stating your own beliefs isn't really an
issues (as I'm quite open about being pro shooting and hunting, which I know
some/many may not be) this isn't the place to pushing your views on others.
You believe that the article was 'bang on the nail' however that is your view
and one that I know isn't shared by many others. The fact that your post came
across as 'preaching' your vein and on that basis I think it is inappropriate.
In the same vein it would be innappropriate for me to post articles written by
the Countryside Alliance (a British Pro countryside, Hunting and Shooting
lobby group for those that don't know).
However posting information about political issues like the NERC bill would be
relevant because it is something that relates to what the list is about.
It is a very fine line and always best to just follow the common sense rule of
avoiding religion and politics - that way you are unlikely to cause any
offense.
But surely in that instance you would be stating facts about the situation
which would be OK rather than going in to the rights or wrongs.
Come on Peter, it's just a case of being sensible about it.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Pete
I think you know what is meant.
There are plenty of forums out there that deal with this kind of thing. Try
Chris Scott's on the Horizons Unlimited site.
 
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OK, OK, point taken and in the best possible taste
I have said sorry.
I will not post such things again
I posted it in a moment of folly because it seemed (short-sightedly) to
follow on from the discussion about signatures. I was misguided, it was a
mistake and I wholeheartedly apologise!!
OK, I take the point again. No mention of religion or politics.
Maybe, maybe not depending. Someone's belief of something as a fact may be
some else's conjecture but again I take the point on board. The article I
posted was a point of view, that's all. It was posted for information and I
was not attempting to set an agenda.
OK fine, but I do think this is all a storm in a teacup. I can't unpost what
I posted and that is one of the problems with email based forums - posts
cannot be deleted.
I wholeheartedly apologize - to everyone that I offended.
End of story - I hope.
Pete
 
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Hi Chas,
I see they are features in Total Off Road again this month, looks like a
sensible design - would be interested to know how you get on with them.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Well Roman, I did actually have camo trousers on, but not the flamboyant
type, these were the ones they refer to as dotcam. The Xlites I think would
make ideal work/reversing lights, the lamp inside is the type that are used
in low voltage lamps in the home so are easily available and come in
different beam angles and wattages so a lower wattage one would probably
suffice for a work/reversing light.
TTFN
Chas
PS
I've only just realised, I've been highjacking a subject line, humble
apologies chaps.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
 
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I think Julian is probably right, no politics or religion, but just for the
record Pete, you didn't offend me.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] A little missive about the war on terror.
 
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Reno Lamb a ?crit :
Technically the 80 series limos are not really considered as
"landcruisers" by many old-school purists, which would make this a moot
point :pp
 
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