Buying a Cruiser Wagon - help a brother out!

Solanum1

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Hey all... hope to be an active member of this forum from here on in.
I've been a Hilux & Cruiser driver with my field of work for the past 8 or so years, yet have owned a 3L Navara which I'm no longer needing (too small for the family) so I have been busy researching and looking up Cruiser wagons to which I will purchase. And seeing as though I was a forum member on Navara Asia forum, I know theres some good info/members on here.

The two models I'm looking at are the mighty 80 Series Wagons and 105's. I don't have a heap of dosh to spend... between 10K and 20K. I'm a big fan of the 1HZ but havn't driven a bolt on turbo model, and havn't had much to do with the 1-HDT but I've definetely done my reading as to what to look for etc. At the end of the day I'm not too phased if I end up with a non turbo 1HZ because I know the reliability will be there, and I know of someone here in Cairns that very safely puts turbo's on (a mate has got a 2H single cab cruiser with added turbo and its not bad!). The 1-HDT from what I keep reading is still also a good engine but has a few added issues which I'd like to here from you guys. Whats the go with them?

But my biggest question is this... due to my budget alot of the Cruisers I'm looking at have racked up the miles. There's not many under 300K... and those that have gone over have had some kind of rebuild to them. What are typically the most common things to be changed over on a 1HZ or 1-HDT (starter motors, fuel pump, alternator???) and at what stage should they be replaced IF they havn't already been? I don't want to rush in and buy a vehicle with less K's on it only to find that I'll then be having to replace parts... so am I better off buying a vehicle with say 350K on the clock thats had all the bits replaced already?

For me the 80 Series looks the goods, but at the end of the day are they getting a bit passed it? The 105 solid axle stuff looks the goods. I have driven them around NQ before and they are very comfortable indeed but I do note they have an added EGR on the 1HZ (I'm not sure when they were introduced?). I have an EGR on the Navara which I've blocked as a mechanic opened my beast up after I'd purchased it and said it was one of the worst choked up engines he'd seen. He put me onto a good oil Mobil Delvac MX15W40 and the difference has been awesome... definetely a great oil.

Look forward to hearing from ya's and joining in the conversations. I've tripped all around NQ and some small parts of the Cape as well as growing up on the Tablelands so if you've got any Q's for me I can help!

Cheers
 

clivehorridge

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Welcome to the forum Solanum, you'll get a variety of responses I guess, but here's my limited opinion...

I've only ever owned or driven one cruiser, and that's my 11 years ownership of my 1995 HZJ 80. I'm getting on in years, so I'm not looking to beat guys off the green light, so it doesn't bother me that it's no dragster!

The torque is there, so offroad on a steep and heavy going incline, nothing stops it. It's reliable and at almost 400k km, it still behaves like it did when it came out of the box. No oil leaks, no burning oil, no misfires, its spot on every drive.

The 1HD (with a turbo) is a different engine, different compression ratio, different pistons and a whole list of other differences. Adding a Eurobond to a 1HZ should be done with care, as you've already acknowledged.

I can't say I'd prefer the HZJ, and if I were in your shores looking for an 80, then I'd go for the HDJ, but don't be put off the HZ if you don't mind the lack of boy racer appeal :lol:

As for ancillaries such as starters and pumps, I don't think there's much difference if any, between them. Most parts are interchangeable, with the exception of parts which are turbo related, the injector pump and the obvious 12 valve/24 valve differences (on the later HDs).

From what I've seen, the 100 series tends to rust more readily than an 80, but in all other respects, I'd say a 105 is a way to go, but I can't bring myself to say it's better than my beloved 80.

The only downside of the 1HD that I'm aware of is the Big End Bearing issue, but BEBs are so easy and relatively cheap to replace, I wouldn't even consider it a downside.

There you go, a sentimental and biased opinion, what better to kick this thread off with :lol:
 

Solanum1

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Thanks Clive for that detailed reply! Cool stuff!

Thanks for noting the big end bearing with the 1-HDT. I am having trouble finding what issues these engines have, it's just the few things I've heard from others. It could just be a case of the 1HZ being just so reliable that anything else is unreliable! I thought most things would be interchangeable, so you've eased some thoughts there. And from what I can tell parts are a damsight cheaper then my common-rail diesel Navara (just forked out $4000 aus for a new injector pump last month... not real pleased with that)

I do notice the 105's here in Oz do rust up a bit more particuarly where I'm from in Far North Qld. They seem to get rust in spots you wouldnt consider as well... but not overally bad. The 80's I see seem to collect some rust patches more or less around windscreen ingresses and rubbers more so then anywhere else. That'll be something I look for.

Regards
 

clivehorridge

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Yes, 80s are not immune to the tin worm. And as you say, they're 20 years plus old now, so the rust is starting to show. I had the rear quarters welded on mine this year, but there's not much rust (if any) elsewhere on it.

It seems to be holding up much better than photos I've seen of 100s half its age, hence my comment.

BEBs are not an issue IMO, I had mine done a service garage, but even I could have done the job, I'm convinced of that. But if you do get a HDJ, make sure they've been replaced or do it yourself, the alternative is a wrecked engine.

There's several threads on here explaining the job from start to finish, so there's no excuses. :lol:

Good luck with your search, and I hope more come forward with better info than I could provide.
 
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Solanum1

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I have a question for you all today...

Again looking at the 80 Series - I regularly tow a boat around wherever I go and the 'barn' style doors on the HZJ's appeal to me a hell of a lot more then the big door on the HDJ's in terms of getting gear out of the back etc. If I go down the line of a HDJ (factory turbo is now growing on me) is it a hard job or even possible to take off the big door and replace with the barn type?

Cheers
 

Julian T

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Having towed the boats I have (used to water ski) I would not be going barn door, but then I used to tow with a Hilux or a Isuzu KB when not using the 40 series pick up.
 

clivehorridge

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In the past I've done a lot of boat towing (not with a cruiser though) and I currently own an 80 with barn (or ambulance) doors, so some experience on both counts, if not at the Sam end time.

Access to the rear of the tow vehicle when hitched is (IME) a PITA at the best of times.

I'm not sure which would be of best advantage. If the drop-down gate doesn't foul the trailer mechanisms, then the tailgate version would not cause problems.

The ambulance door set-up (on my LHD truck) is a small door on the left and a larger door on the right, these may switch on RHD vehicles. If the small door opens without fouling, then it could possibly be an advantage over the tailgate, but even then, reach in access would be easy from the lift-up part of the tailgate.

If the bigger rear door fouled the jockey wheel for example then the tailgate version might be better.

Six of one, and half a dozen of the other, I don't think there'd be much between them.
 

Solanum1

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Surprising you guys would consider the bigger door! I guess it depends on your trailer setup, too (should have stated that earlier!). My issue wouldnt be the jockey wheel but more or less the winch post and winch handle on the trailer... for my outboard motor height whilst in transit I've moved my boat up the trailer a bit further foward then most... probably an extra 250 or 300mm more then I'd like hence why the barn doors appeal to me. They just look more economical and a bit easier to use too?

I've also just read some interesting stuff today on fuel economy too on the 1hz, most around the 14L per 100km. Does this sound correct to you guys? My daily drive everyday is about 35km to work, and 35km back home... so up to 70km a day which is nothing for me.
 

clivehorridge

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Surprising you guys would consider the bigger door! I guess it depends on your trailer setup, too (should have stated that earlier!). My issue wouldnt be the jockey wheel but more or less the winch post and winch handle on the trailer... for my outboard motor height whilst in transit I've moved my boat up the trailer a bit further foward then most... probably an extra 250 or 300mm more then I'd like hence why the barn doors appeal to me. They just look more economical and a bit easier to use too?

I've also just read some interesting stuff today on fuel economy too on the 1hz, most around the 14L per 100km. Does this sound correct to you guys? My daily drive everyday is about 35km to work, and 35km back home... so up to 70km a day which is nothing for me.

On the highway at a cruising speed of about 115km/h I can get about 14-15 lt per 100km, I don't think that's far out. A boat on a trailer might not help, but I've never towed with the cruiser, so can't advise.
 

Julian T

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I think you will find that the larger of the two barn doors will need to be opened before you can open the smaller, this door I would expect to come close to if not actually foul a winch post or a jockey wheel, where as I would expect the upper door of a tail gate type to clear and quite possibly the lower to also clear as it does not project that far out when open on the 80 series.

It would be my suggestion to trial any potential purchase before splashing out, perhaps there may be a charitable person local to you who would be prepared to hitch up to your trailer so you can check the next time you find yourself at the boat ramp/dock?

Personally I prefer the tail gate set up as when open you have a place to sit and if its raining you have a roof with the upper tail gate open, as I am fairly tall, 1m 83cm or 6ft2 in old money, reaching in is not a problem.
As for fuel economy it is not the first thing I consider when looking at a vehicle, I prefer to buy something I like and say if I like it and enjoy driving it then that is just the price I must pay.
My 1HDFT gets around 8 km per lt however there are a few reasons for that, I have replaced front and rear bumpers with heavier steel after market ones, i have a roof rack with tent, awning and high lift jack permanently mounted and often have Jerry cans or cargo boxes on the front half of it, especially when going away camping, it has a intercooler conversion and the turbo and injector pump have both been fiddled with and lastly I have a very heavy right foot and on a long run I often cruise at around 130 kph, German autobahn can see me closer to 150 kph, I run 75 profile all terrain tyres.
I can get around 13 km per lt if I can be disciplined enough to sit at 100 kph though.
Before I started with all the modifications ie while she was standard and naked I once achieved 15 km per lt but it was damn boring.
 

Richo

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I think you will find that the larger of the two barn doors will need to be opened before you can open the smaller, this door I would expect to come close to if not actually foul a winch post or a jockey wheel, where as I would expect the upper door of a tail gate type to clear and quite possibly the lower to also clear as it does not project that far out when open on the 80 series.

It would be my suggestion to trial any potential purchase before splashing out, perhaps there may be a charitable person local to you who would be prepared to hitch up to your trailer so you can check the next time you find yourself at the boat ramp/dock?

Personally I prefer the tail gate set up as when open you have a place to sit and if its raining you have a roof with the upper tail gate open, as I am fairly tall, 1m 83cm or 6ft2 in old money, reaching in is not a problem.
As for fuel economy it is not the first thing I consider when looking at a vehicle, I prefer to buy something I like and say if I like it and enjoy driving it then that is just the price I must pay.
My 1HDFT gets around 8 km per lt however there are a few reasons for that, I have replaced front and rear bumpers with heavier steel after market ones, i have a roof rack with tent, awning and high lift jack permanently mounted and often have Jerry cans or cargo boxes on the front half of it, especially when going away camping, it has a intercooler conversion and the turbo and injector pump have both been fiddled with and lastly I have a very heavy right foot and on a long run I often cruise at around 130 kph, German autobahn can see me closer to 150 kph, I run 75 profile all terrain tyres.
I can get around 13 km per lt if I can be disciplined enough to sit at 100 kph though.
Before I started with all the modifications ie while she was standard and naked I once achieved 15 km per lt but it was damn boring.
 

Richo

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Hi I've been a member for a couple of years but first time intro. I'm from Brisbane Australia
My current cruiser is a 2005 GXL 100 series 1HDFTE with 5 speed auto. 280,000km to date. Just fairly standard and used mainly to tow an off road caravan.

If I could offer my advice to Solanum it would be forget the barn doors and lengthen your trailer drawbar if necessary as the tailgate is a handy seat or table. Go the extra expense and buy the turbo intercooled 1HDFTE as it also has direct injection, so no more glow plugs. The 1HZ is bulletproof but such a slug on hills and when towing, although an aftermarket turbo kit will make it more driveable and in fact better on fuel to a degree. I fitted the DTS kit to my previous 80 series and found it 2 gears better on the Toowoomba range than the standard non turbo engine. Toyota will warn against doing this mod but take no notice of them and just change your oil regularly. Thanks for reading.
 

clivehorridge

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I think you will find that the larger of the two barn doors will need to be opened before you can open the smaller, this door I would expect to come close to if not actually foul a winch post or a jockey wheel, where as I would expect the upper door of a tail gate type to clear and quite possibly the lower to also clear as it does not project that far out when open on the 80 series.

It would be my suggestion to trial any potential purchase before splashing out, perhaps there may be a charitable person local to you who would be prepared to hitch up to your trailer so you can check the next time you find yourself at the boat ramp/dock?

Personally I prefer the tail gate set up as when open you have a place to sit and if its raining you have a roof with the upper tail gate open, as I am fairly tall, 1m 83cm or 6ft2 in old money, reaching in is not a problem.
As for fuel economy it is not the first thing I consider when looking at a vehicle, I prefer to buy something I like and say if I like it and enjoy driving it then that is just the price I must pay.
My 1HDFT gets around 8 km per lt however there are a few reasons for that, I have replaced front and rear bumpers with heavier steel after market ones, i have a roof rack with tent, awning and high lift jack permanently mounted and often have Jerry cans or cargo boxes on the front half of it, especially when going away camping, it has a intercooler conversion and the turbo and injector pump have both been fiddled with and lastly I have a very heavy right foot and on a long run I often cruise at around 130 kph, German autobahn can see me closer to 150 kph, I run 75 profile all terrain tyres.
I can get around 13 km per lt if I can be disciplined enough to sit at 100 kph though.
Before I started with all the modifications ie while she was standard and naked I once achieved 15 km per lt but it was damn boring.

I'm afraid I have to correct the first part of your post Julian. The small door is your regular access to the load area. It overlaps and the catches close onto the edge of the larger door. There's no way to open them in reverse order, and vice versa, the larger door has to shut first, as there's nothing for the smaller door to catch to, without it.

The set-up looks like this, with the doors closed, smaller door on the left. The only handle 'accessible' is hidden under the cowl over the number plate, with the 'Toyota Land Cruiser' logo on it... (not very visible in the photo, because of the ladder)...

IMG_7128.JPG


That pull flap opens the smaller door, which measures 64 cm (25" in old money).

IMG_7129.JPG



You can see one of the the small door closure catches mounted on the edge of the large door.... the black lever below it is for opening the larger door.
IMG_7130.JPG


The other small door catch bar is at the top...

IMG_7135.JPG


On mine, the larger door is covered by the swing-out... so with that opened...

IMG_7131.JPG


The larger door can then be opened.... and that measures 82 cm (32")

IMG_7132.JPG


A close-up of the small door catch (on the edge of the large door)...

IMG_7133.JPG


And the open edge of the small door that mates with it....
IMG_7134.JPG


The larger door body-catch is at the bottom, with a rubber locating block to its right.
IMG_7136.JPG


As I said, mine is a LHD so it's possible that a RHD version may have the doors configured the other way around, with the smaller door on the right, not the left, as mine is.

Anyway, the small door has to be opened first, and in normal use the larger door doesn't get opened often, only if you're loading bigger objects.

As for the winch post of a trailer fouling the doors, IMO, I would want to set up the hitch to give me at least the 82 cm (32") clearance to open the larger door, 102 cm (40") would do it, and that's not particularly much clearance, by towing standards.

I still think the jury is out on which would be better, tailgate or ambulance doors, but the "somewhere to sit when it's raining" is the biggest advantage of a tailgate, apart from the instant table it provides.

The only advantage of the ambulance doors, is the access to the load area is instant, without having to negotiate over the lower gate 'table'.

Hope this helps.

PS Rather ashamed of how dirty the truck looks, and the cat, she can't resist getting involved...

IMG_7137.JPG
 
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Julian T

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Thanks Clive, I have often wondered how the doors worked as I have only seen the tail gate type on a 80,
Gotta love a cats curiosity.
 

Solanum1

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Awesome replies guys, thanks! Big thanks Clive for all those photo's... you've gone to some effort there plus some numbers to think about... cheers.

All our RHD vehicles here have the barn doors open the same way. Your right about instant access... they just seem more friendly IMHO. I certainly see the points about having the big door for rain and having somewhere to sit. Alot of keen fishermen (like myself) here in Aus have tricked out the back of the barn door 80's with special fold out tables, some even store water bladders with hidden taps inside the cavity's (clever!). Again, just seem more economical I guess for what I'm after. At the end of the day I can move the winch post back on the trailer a bit to accomodate the larger door opening up... it's just then a case of finding or engineering a support bracket for the outboard to rest/tie on during transport. I own a 4.4m Sea Jay avenger with offroad trailer & 40hp Yamaha and we've taken it to some rough spots... clearance is a huge thing with trailers. Forget about cars.... trailers need it more!

I'm hearing ya Richo about the 1HDTFE. A lady at my work has a GXL Sahara with one and it's a mint truck... probably the car which has me wanting a Cruiser! Unfortunately I just don't have the funds to buy a truck with one... you'd be lucky to find a truck with one here for $25K. I see that fully recon'ed 1HDTFE's are about $10K plus install, where a 'drop in' 1HDT is about $6K and a 1HZ about $3.5K. When my injector pump went on my Navara I enquired about dropping a 1HZ in the engine bay but my mechanic just said there's too much to do. Possible, but out of this world workload.

But I've narrowed my choice down... I've decided on finding a standard HZJ80R with an unmolested 1HZ, or a 105 Series with the same thing. If I can possibly find one of the two with a really switched on owner who's dropped in a Safari turbo or Garret turbo and hasn't set the boost to sunset then I'd give it some thought. If I go down the road of a 105 Series I'll block the EGR. I've done this mod on my 3L Navara and it's been a winner. I note that this isn't possible on the 80's as EGR wasn't around back then.
 

Solanum1

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Nice looking 80 BTW Clive. Looks like a beast. How many km on the clock on yours?
 

Julian T

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Solanum1 my 80 had egr, it's one of the things I have removed from it and the other very important thing for me is that it does not have glow plugs.
I believe that the 12 valve engines have glow plugs, the 24 valve engines don't.
 

clivehorridge

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Nice looking 80 BTW Clive. Looks like a beast. How many km on the clock on yours?

Pleased to report that it had a wipe over with an oily rag today, I set about it after being horrified by the photos in my post! :oops:.

I can't pretend to have washed it, some friends are calling in and we're off on a small off-road outing tomorrow, so a wash would be wasted, she's gonna be plastered in mud this time tomorrow :lol:.

Mileage is creeping up on the old girl, approaching 400k km. It will probably trip that by the end of the year. It's an awful way off being mint, but she's quite tidy underneath rust wise, which is the main thing. I've had the rear quarters replaced, long-term blocked drains saw them rotted, but the sills and body-mounts are still ok.

I recon the engine will keep plodding on, they're massively over-engineered these things, and under-stressed. The guy before me had it for 8 years and admitted he'd spent as little on maintenance as possible. It showed. The poor thing was gagging for an an engine oil change and none of the other oils had been changed from new. Very little came out of the (manual) gearbox, and even less from the diffs. The CVs were shot to pieces along with the swivels, and the prop UJs were all shagged bar one, which he'd replaced because "the old one broke" as he put it :icon-rolleyes:

It's lifted for runs over the mountains, there's some axle twisters around here, so she tends to glide over them ok with the lift. The OME springs are more HD than stock, so it doesn't suffer with a load on board. I'm often 7-up so with tools and recovery gear, it can get a bit heavy.

This is by far the best vehicle I've ever owned, not in a beauty contest way or comfort, but as an all rounder that suits my needs, she's perfect. Bought it in 2006 at a neglected 11 years old, fixed up all there was to do over the years, and she's a keeper. It will outlive me no doubt, and as nobody's likely to want it when I'm gone, I've told the missus to bury me in it.

It would be a fitting end to our time together, (me and the truck), we know each other very well. I think the wife is a bit jealous :lol:

If the weather is good enough there may be some photos of tomorrow's small outing getting posted soon.

On the ambulance doors / boat trailer issue, you could do a sketch using my measurements. If you add them together, you'll get the hinge to hinge width.

On plan, you could scribe the two arcs (of the door opening paths each side) and this will give you a better idea as to what's happening in the centre, where your winch post is likely to be. You may find they both clear the winch, as the pillar wouldn't normally be that wide, probably only 200mm or so.
 
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Solanum1

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Hey guys.

So ended buying a hzj105. What a mission to find a good vehicle! Has all the bells and whistles... is non turbo but runs like a dream. I drove several other 1hz 105's and none drive like this one.

I do have a question though. Ive found a nasty (proper nasty) patch of rust on a bit of barwork under the steering wheel. I've got no idea how this has transpired, the vehicle is fitted with a couplertec rust module but is not working properly at all (dont believe there is any power to it). The only thing I can think that has caused this rust is the low water alarm unit that you see is cable tied to the bar. Perhaps there is some kind of electric field here that is causing it?

IMG_20170910_160712_637.jpg 20170918_203230.jpg
 
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