With remnants of a wiring fire Clive anything could have happened. It would mean tracing through all the wiring where the burn out occurred. Or get a loom from another truck but that may be tricky.
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Central locking problems
- Thread starter clivehorridge
- Start date
Sure Rich, it's all a bit of a mess in places.
A replacement loom is pretty much out of the question really, but it's been fine for many years, so there's a good chance I can patch it, problem by problem.
There's nothing for it, you'll simply have to come here for a week to sort it out for me, then we can have a second week on the mountain, drinking beer and enjoying BBQ.
Kettle's on mate !
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,524
Sounds like weak relay contacts or the wiring from them. Or it could be a poor earth. You could check all the earths you can find and that way hopefully you'll have covered the one from the alarm. I would start by looking behind the glove box, then the drivers side, then under the centre box. I would take the door card off and check what happens when you lock by using the door lock. Then try the key and see what happens by trying to work pout which wires do what and following them. It's either that or a recommended alarm person. They seam to have a sixth sense on these problems.
Thanks Frank, it's all good advice I'm sure!
I'm going to start with the door card and see if the alarm is tapped into the central locking switch in the arm-rest first.
If not, then I'll venture behind the glove box or try to find the alarm box and work my way from that.
I'll check all earths I find on the way. I have a feeling that there's a non-OEM wire to the door switch panel, that's why I'll start there. If I'm lucky, I'll find a bad connection or a broken wire, if not then it may get more complicated.
I agree that these guys do have a way of sorting these things out, but I would like to have a look at it first. If it didn't work at all that would be one thing, but it's a bit baffling that it works on the 30th attempt or so, so something must be "right".
There should be two wires into the door, open and close. If they go in and join there, there is a better than even chance the connection is your problem. Should be soldered and taped, ideally heat shrink insulated. It sounds like corrosion is limiting the current as it 'tries' to function but doesn't have the oomph behind it. It effectively looses power across a bad joint. If you're lucky, the joon may be under the switch panel. It just pulls up from the front edge iirc.
Cheers Rich.
I had my helper have a look behind the door card this afternoon, there are twin non-OEM wires going to the central locking switch in the arm rest, and he's confirmed that they look good, soldered joints with the wire insulation tight to the joints, no sign of a break or short.
We didn't have a meter with us to check continuity, and he didn't have time to follow the wires too far, the come through with the door loom into the cab behind the drivers left foot kicker panel. There's no sign of damage to the insulation where it hinges at the door.
My tester is up at the house but he's going to try to remember his from home in the morning.
In the meantime, I've learned how to lock the car by simply pressing the arm rest door lock switch, and holding the outside door handle up when closing the driver's door. I can set the alarm with the fob and unlocking is easy with the key and disarm the alarm with the fob.
We'll see how we progress with investigations tomorrow.
Thanks for your ideas, it's pretty much as you imagine so far. If Cris can follow the wires to an alarm box, we may be able to find a fault somewhere.
I had my helper have a look behind the door card this afternoon, there are twin non-OEM wires going to the central locking switch in the arm rest, and he's confirmed that they look good, soldered joints with the wire insulation tight to the joints, no sign of a break or short.
We didn't have a meter with us to check continuity, and he didn't have time to follow the wires too far, the come through with the door loom into the cab behind the drivers left foot kicker panel. There's no sign of damage to the insulation where it hinges at the door.
My tester is up at the house but he's going to try to remember his from home in the morning.
In the meantime, I've learned how to lock the car by simply pressing the arm rest door lock switch, and holding the outside door handle up when closing the driver's door. I can set the alarm with the fob and unlocking is easy with the key and disarm the alarm with the fob.
We'll see how we progress with investigations tomorrow.
Thanks for your ideas, it's pretty much as you imagine so far. If Cris can follow the wires to an alarm box, we may be able to find a fault somewhere.
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Worth narrowing down from two wires to one by testing which one gets volts up it when you push close, also the voltage at the same point when you close with the fob. Then have a good look at that wire through the boot in the door hinge area. It should roll when the door is opened but they sometimes suffer. Trace the wire back under the dash and test volts again near the alarm module. There are insulation piercing probes for this but seal the wire up after use. If the volts are the same at the alarm as in the door, then the wire is ok. If the alarm has a fuse for open and a fuse for close it's worth checking them. It may have one fuse near it that does both lock and unlock.
If all externally is good then it likely to be inside the alarm. Access will be your biggest problem with this. It may be worth a look or you might want to consider a new alarm at this point.
If all externally is good then it likely to be inside the alarm. Access will be your biggest problem with this. It may be worth a look or you might want to consider a new alarm at this point.
Having skimmed this and did not see if you found the ECU? One thing that is common with a good quality alarm is the wire colours. If they are all one colour (usually black), this is indicative of a decent quality. When the unit is at the 'pre install' stage each has a coloured tag. Once the install is complete and tested the tag codes are cut off, thus making a quick bypass impossible. The only reason I mention this, is if the wires are good and also coloured then it may be the ECU failing, so a replacement may be on the way.
The 80 is a pain to wire the central locking activation with aftermarket alarms, I found this when doing my own install. The easiest way is via the door jamb which sound like your install, the wires tend to work harden and break, the result is intermittent operation of the CL. A trick I do is to open the door and operate the alarm lock button with the door open and in different positions. Some alarm systems detect the door is open via either the internal lock mechanism (unlikely on our 80's) or the switch for the interior light, so you may have to deal with them. Tape the switch down and move the mechanism latch to the door closed position using a screw driver.
Start swinging that door when pressing the button Clive!
regards
Dave
The 80 is a pain to wire the central locking activation with aftermarket alarms, I found this when doing my own install. The easiest way is via the door jamb which sound like your install, the wires tend to work harden and break, the result is intermittent operation of the CL. A trick I do is to open the door and operate the alarm lock button with the door open and in different positions. Some alarm systems detect the door is open via either the internal lock mechanism (unlikely on our 80's) or the switch for the interior light, so you may have to deal with them. Tape the switch down and move the mechanism latch to the door closed position using a screw driver.
Start swinging that door when pressing the button Clive!
regards
Dave
Thanks Dave, interesting stuff there and Gary, yes, we've done a visual and the wires don't look damaged inside the boot.
Cris is going to trace where the non-OEM wires attached to the arm rest central locking switch go to today (if it stops raining) and with luck it will be the alarm box.
Actually, he thinks he found it just inside the driver kick panel, which is a logical place to hide it.
Then it's continuity checks and whatever else he can think of.
My initial thoughts were a fault in the OEM ECU, because it's intermittent, but then why does the arm rest switch work faultlessly... ?
That leads me to assume the fault is between the alarm box and the arm rest switch, or in the alarm box itself.
I don't mind fitting a new alarm system, but I need to know it's going to solve the problem first.
I have another question though, on a standard U.K. 80, do the doors automatically lock some 20 seconds after starting the engine, or is this a characteristic of the alarm fitted to my truck?
TBH it's a PITA IMO, who the f**k wants to be locked in their truck and if they do, they only have to press the bloody button!
I've lost count of the number of times it's locked me out. In winter, start the engine, then clear the snow, then spend 2 hours trying to break into the locked truck...
Sensible or what? The guy or guyess that dreamt that one up should be shot
Thanks lads, we'll get there in the end....
Woohoo, a fellow "F*ck I'm locked out of my 80 owner!"
Mine does exactly the same, it is a security feature, pull up at the lights and someone jumps in with a large gun, they cannot do that if the doors are locked automatically! Most alarm/CL systems now wait for the car to actually move before the doors lock, circa 4 - 5 MPH.
I have 'only' been locked out of mine three times........yeh I know...pratt!
Twice I was outside my house so no big deal, the last time outside a friends so borrowed his car and popped home for the spare. I now have a spare key cut down with no plastic on it and it keep it in my wallet, it can be an issue if you get stopped by the police without your 'carnet', so rarely forget my wallet and the key comes with it.
How ironic since I have carried the key I have never locked myself out.....there I go again with my big mouth!
regards
Dave
Mine does exactly the same, it is a security feature, pull up at the lights and someone jumps in with a large gun, they cannot do that if the doors are locked automatically! Most alarm/CL systems now wait for the car to actually move before the doors lock, circa 4 - 5 MPH.
I have 'only' been locked out of mine three times........yeh I know...pratt!
Twice I was outside my house so no big deal, the last time outside a friends so borrowed his car and popped home for the spare. I now have a spare key cut down with no plastic on it and it keep it in my wallet, it can be an issue if you get stopped by the police without your 'carnet', so rarely forget my wallet and the key comes with it.
How ironic since I have carried the key I have never locked myself out.....there I go again with my big mouth!
regards
Dave
Gary820
Well-Known Member
The Toyota alarm that was on mine didn't auto lock after starting, on a lot of alarms it can be selected, small switches or removable bridge contacts. Can select stuff like auto re arm (if have unlocked and not opened a door) auto/passive locking, pain in the arse if leave keys in while working on it and it locks, add in the system that closes the windows and it becomes a really big pain in the arse! ( currently fitting said system to mine but without it self locking lol)
Whether it beeps when lock/unlock.
It all depends on the unit tbh.
On some you can add an extra to start the engine by the remote too (insurance gets iffy about the one) turn headlights on if want to etc.
Used to fit a lot of alarm/immobilisers back in the day. Nowadays it's tracker units as most cars worth stealing have factory alarm/immobiliser fitted. Still got my approved installer certs somewhere.
As already suggested check what voltage you get at the switch connection when lock/unlock using the remote, compare that to the alarm box end too, check the 2 wires with the meter and worth opening/closing the door while monitoring the wires. Wires can break inside the insulation and look ok.
Whether it beeps when lock/unlock.
It all depends on the unit tbh.
On some you can add an extra to start the engine by the remote too (insurance gets iffy about the one) turn headlights on if want to etc.
Used to fit a lot of alarm/immobilisers back in the day. Nowadays it's tracker units as most cars worth stealing have factory alarm/immobiliser fitted. Still got my approved installer certs somewhere.
As already suggested check what voltage you get at the switch connection when lock/unlock using the remote, compare that to the alarm box end too, check the 2 wires with the meter and worth opening/closing the door while monitoring the wires. Wires can break inside the insulation and look ok.
As Gary says Clive, you won't see a break inside the insulation 80% of the time. Though a kink can sometimes be a tell tale.
OK guys, how frustrating has this been, but all's well that ends.... as they say, fault found and fixed, remote CL now working ticketty boo 
It was very simple in the end, we traced the non-OEM (alarm) wire we found beautifully connected to the terminals on the arm rest CL switch to the kicker panel by the driver's footwell and located the alarm box.
It was just stuffed into the recess in front of the 'A' pillar and as we pulled it away, we found a small coil of excess wire also stuffed in the recess.
Despite having too much wire, the alarm installer had found it necessary to have a connection in the coiled up length.
It looked good, but when tested, it was clear that the discontinuity was on the lock wire at that joint. Cris just cut it out along with the excess wire and soldered a new joint in all the wires. He shrinkwrapped them too, a nice job.
When we unwrapped the bad connection, they'd just twisted the wires together and taped them.
The bad wire was corroded to hell and black where it had heated up, ha ha with my 28 attempts to lock the car I guess, it can't have helped.
All back together and working as smooth as a baby's smooth things.
Thank you all for your time and suggestions, and sorry to bother you with my frustrations.
It was very simple in the end, we traced the non-OEM (alarm) wire we found beautifully connected to the terminals on the arm rest CL switch to the kicker panel by the driver's footwell and located the alarm box.
It was just stuffed into the recess in front of the 'A' pillar and as we pulled it away, we found a small coil of excess wire also stuffed in the recess.
Despite having too much wire, the alarm installer had found it necessary to have a connection in the coiled up length
.It looked good, but when tested, it was clear that the discontinuity was on the lock wire at that joint. Cris just cut it out along with the excess wire and soldered a new joint in all the wires. He shrinkwrapped them too, a nice job.
When we unwrapped the bad connection, they'd just twisted the wires together and taped them.
The bad wire was corroded to hell and black where it had heated up, ha ha with my 28 attempts to lock the car I guess, it can't have helped
.All back together and working as smooth as a baby's smooth things.
Thank you all for your time and suggestions, and sorry to bother you with my frustrations.
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Ooooh, a Scotchlock would have been rocket science in comparison Gary
.Even then, it had lasted more than 11 years of daily use, so it could have been worse.
Glad you got it sorted Clive that should save you some strange looks 
Glad you got it sorted Clive that should save you some strange looks
It was getting embarrassing Jon, till I learned how to lock the truck using the "lift handle" method.
In all 11 years of ownership I've never used the key in the door or had the need to lock it without the remote.
Every day a school trip, or something like that... eh?
Agreed TP.
But I do like the look of those multiple wire connectors.
When you've got a single line live feeding a string of USB chargers or similar, they'll come in handy.
But I do like the look of those multiple wire connectors.
When you've got a single line live feeding a string of USB chargers or similar, they'll come in handy.
