Charging Voltage too high ?

[Chris]

Indeed and I have wired all my batteries end to end with substantial cabling and hydraulic crimp lugs. Over engineered perhaps but it does mean that you always have 'alternatives' when in a tight spot.

I had a long conversation with a battery supplier about Optimas. He knew all the discussions about them and said that simply the biggest issue was too low charging voltage. They must get 14.5 regulalry if not all of the time. My CTEK does that for the rear one, but the front one only gets the standard alternator cycle and you know what, it shows. So when it's parked up over the week, it's always hooked up to a CTEK 10 amp charger on AGM cycle. Now it seems much happier. The back one is at 100% when I park it up and still at that when I collect it. The front battery runs some very small items like the clock whilst parked so is always drained albeit very slowly. Now it gets the constant feed, it doesn't drop off nearly as fast when parked without the charger. They like being charged hard and fast. My rear Optima gives staggering performance. We'll see how it does on the Morocco trip running fridge and the front one running the freezer. There is one more reason why I like them. They fit perfectly in the only space I had!

 

[StarCruiser]

I wouldn't say over engineered Chris, just done properly. Lots swear by soldering as well as crimping, I believe this leads to fractures though it may depend on how much solder is used. I just crimp on multi strand cable using quality components.

Were your Optimas bought when they were good or more recently?

 

[Chris]

Ahh well good point well made but the difficulty I have trying to solder leads this big is they are a massive heat sink and I just can't get enough heat in quickly enough. I tried it and just ruined the lead. I did try doing them with molten lead but you need to pre heat the lug or the lead just chills in the neck. In the end after having a real good tug in my workshop I decided my end wasn't going to come off, so I left it.

Optimas are from Battery Megastore and are about a year old now. I have two red tops too, quite old but in perfect condition sitting in storage. I drop the charger on once a month and they go straight up to OK and float charge. Tried a drop tester on them and I could have made toast on the element. Good batteries.

 

[Towpack]

Fractures in soldered joints was less of a problem with old lead solders but the modern lead free types are more susceptible. I always solder crimp type connectors and then heat shrink sleeve but, certainly, on really big connectors, avoiding damage to the insulation is tricky. I have used a very small flamed gas torch which gets the job done quicker so heat soak damage to the cable's insulation can be minimised. JMO

 

[chapel gate]

ive just made a couple of cables up today. the lugs i use i put in the vice upside down and melt the solder in with a small blow torch, give the bare cable a bit of a warm, dip it in the flux then push it into the molten solder, heat the lug a bit longer for good measure. the only way to get the cable back out is to re heat the solder. dad tells me its tinmans soldier, were still on 35 year old stock..

 

[Mblinko]

I took delivery of a 110A alternator from euro4x4parts today.

physically it is a bit bigger .....



I haven't finished fitting it yet as it took a while to figure out what had to be modified to make it fit. In the end it was a matter of elongating the hole on the adjustment bracket, but it's still a pretty close fit.

interestingly, it came with a computerised test report which says max output under full load I.e. 6000 rpm is 163 amps. 110 is produced at a a little over 2000 rpm.

 

[StarCruiser]

That's pretty useful to have that printout as it shows the alternator can more than cope with quite an overload. Don't forget to update your cable to the battery or it will get warm/hot/melt/blow fusible link especially when winching.

On the soldering issue, the navy crimp their terminals and that's on a vessel that's subject to huge amounts of vibration, buffeting etc. Aircraft use crimps, albeit with calibrated crimp tools. To me, crimped and sleeved with heat shrink is the way to go.

 

[chapel gate]

Does it say what output is at 1000 rpm? Dont chuck that old unit. I changed the regulator in mine and its all good now. On inspection there was very good sealing on the bearings and brushes.

 

[StarCruiser]

I would be surprised if the alternator ever ran that low as the pulley is about 3" diameter against the 6"-7" diameter of the engine pulley I would expect it to be doing at least 1600 rpm at engine idle of 800.

 

[StarCruiser]

Yes, an easily serviceable unit and the Densos do shroud their brushes very nicely.

 

[chapel gate]

Ah. I see thats the alt spindle rpm, not engine rpm?

 

[StarCruiser]

I would expect so as it will be spun up on a test rig rather than an engine and the pulley could be different diameter to the final engine it is mounted on. In truth, I thought the same to start with until I thought it through. [emoji6] just keep it to yourself ok?

 

[Mblinko]

Yes, going to replace the cable. I can't keep the old one though as it's an exchange unit.

 

[chapel gate]

Yeah no worries, I dont think anyone heard us...

 

[StarCruiser]

Mum's the word CG…

 

[Dave2000]

Damn..Damn..Damn!!!!!

Just sat and typed a great explanation why Optima's are not as good as they used to be and why the BS about charging voltage is just that BS!

And clicked 'send' and got the 'land cruiser club page not responding', reloads the page and deletes the message !!!!!

Really annoys me!!

While it appears to be working I will have another go, OK the BS about charge rates was put about by someone defending the apparent loss of quality since the company was taken over around fifteen years ago. The quality fell shortly after the manufacturing process was moved and 'revised'. There is plenty of history out there so check it out at your leisure, might want to ask why so many military vehicles also failed due to Optima battery issues.

If your 80 alternator puts out 13.8 volts then it WILL recharge an Optima period!
If your 80 alternator puts out and can maintain 13.8 volts then that is the EXACT voltage for a 'float' charge to maintain a healthy Optima battery period!

Under this voltage is not good but then it is not for any battery, over around 15 is also not good but again for any other typical battery, so forget the BS.

The special 'this and that' chargers are not necessary for Optima batteries, they may increase the speed the battery recharges but only if the have temperature sensors to monitor battery temperatures but by how much they help is in the variable world. Special charger may help more modern vehicles with leisure batteries, LR for example which are using lower charge rates despite logic dictating that the amount of electrical paraphernalia they have require higher voltages and not lower, did I mention higher than 12v batteries earlier?


I have read, re-read, debated, deliberated and digested more battery specifications than you could wave a stick at.

Check out what Optima said in 2008 about caring for your Optima battery, and then what Johnson Controls are saying TODAY, it is pretty much the same (albeit with some lower power specs, for whatever reason), so what changed to bring about such a decline in quality and along with a damaging reputation?

I hope that is all behind Optima and that they have returned to the original specification, they were great batteries, I would like to see a couple under the bonnet of the 80. When unsure I purchased a couple of 'dual purpose' marine batteries, been in there a few years now, two purchased for less than the price of one Optima, started to show their age looking for replacements, will I fit Optima's this time................nope.


regards

Dave

 

[Chris]

Only saying what a battery specialist told me and between the two batteries the one getting the higher voltage is working better
Never said it wouldn't charge just that I'd been told the preferred to be at s higher voltage which oddly is exactly what the smart pass delivers

 

[Towpack]

So what is or was so special about Optima batteries anyway apart from the price? My 80 had 2 x 70ah (the lowest spec for an 80) Varta's when I bought it in May'05, don't know how old they were and changed them late last year as they were starting to lose capacity and drop charge when the vehicle was left unused for several days. A faulty heater relay ran them right down a few times, down to less than 6v on one occasion and they still bounced back. I'd call that pretty good battery performance by anyone's standards. If Optima's are twice the price are they twice as good?

This is my take on battery charging. A lead acid battery will charge from any state with only 13.8v from the charger assuming the battery is sound of course. This is slightly higher than the float charge for a 'wet' LA battery. The battery will only draw the current it needs. As the charge increases so does the battery's internal resistance and it will draw less current. If you want to increase the charge rate/current then you need a higher voltage. This is when you have to monitor charging very carefully to prevent overheating and electrolyte loss.

 

[Chris]

Biut I'm not using them as cranking batteries
I'm parked in a field at present where I have been since Friday afternoon running a fridge full of beer bacon and cheese
Not advocating any battery or charger
I'm simply stating what I have and that it works very well indeed

 

[Dave2000]

Only saying what a battery specialist told me and between the two batteries the one getting the higher voltage is working better
Never said it wouldn't charge just that I'd been told the preferred to be at s higher voltage which oddly is exactly what the smart pass delivers

Hi Chris, not digging you out mate, sorry of you got that impression.

I have also edited my post a little to represent the calmer and more lucid person I am today, crazy blood sugar levels have quite an effect on my temperament, the occasional problems I have with the club site does get on my nerves and it if happens at the wrong time I blow a fuse,....which leads me nicely to the Optima's.

Everything I wrote is correct and IME the Optima's used to be a brilliant battery but nowadays they are way over rated. I to rely on a fridge to keep meds right in 40 degree heat and no longer have the faith in that brand to supply the juice.

I am unsure of your battery experience but mine covers around 45 years, and I feel that there is so much misinformation out there about the Optima brand, and know for certain that there are some none so savvy (or honest) battery suppliers out spouting a load of garbage. Then I take on the 'caring parent' (ah bless) attitude and hate to see 'youngsters' being fleeced for something that quite frankly is not up to the job.

regards

Dave (with the caring heart)