eu in or out poll

[Edward Moyse]

A long term plan towards an industrial Britain is exactly what we need . My town here was the busiest exporter of coal in the world 100 years ago shifting 11 million tonnes a year . Ok the coal is gone but the port is still there and currently for sale so someone can build rabbit hutches on it and call them houses .

Hi Shayne,

I respect your point of view, and I really don't claim to be an expert on this, but if I look at the countries of the world by export (which I guess is what you mean):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports
... half of the top 10 are from the EU (including the UK in that, as we are still in the EU for the moment).

Above us are Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands.

How does leaving the EU make us more industrial, when the EU countries are doing so well? And are you sure that the problems you perceive are the EU's fault and not those created by London-centric politicians?

Cheers,

Ed

 

[Pat]

Yeah, CERN as an international organisation is insulated to some degree from all of this (but obviously I've colleagues in many countries, and in particular from the UK since I'm British and was educated there).

Actually Switzerland has been through all of this before: as you may know, a couple of years ago the Swiss narrowly voted to limit immigration (though they've still not actually implemented the law as the government is desperate not to enact it, fearing the consequences). Within a week one of my friends working at Geneva uni was told his funding was cancelled, because it came from the EU and the EU was withdrawing science funding from switzerland as a result of the vote (free movement of people being a non-negotiable part of any treaty with the EU). I think everyone was very shocked at how fast this happened.

For him and his research it was a total disaster. More generally, long term projects (which in the type of physics I do are mostly international endeavours) that Swiss institutes had been leading suddenly needed to find new institutes or be cancelled. In many cases what happened was the scientists involved moved to French, or UK universities and the money went with them : in total Switzerland, a country that got disproportionately high funding from the EU due to the quality of its universities and research institutes, lost out on billions because of the vote. So, very similar to us. The big difference is that the EU can't do this to the UK whilst we're still a member, but I'm already hearing stories about funding committees starting to disfavour the UK.

Obviously I'm very biased, but I'm pretty worried for science in the UK. I suspect I lived through the golden years without realising it!

It's unusual but NZ keeps throwing up great scientists and enterprenuers
and just maybe in this country there is the heritage of Great Britain that helps
to drive that success.Who Knows?

 

[Paddler Ed]

Pat's last post has just made me make a connection with Edward's posts - I think that there is the potential for a brain drain from the UK as those who feel they can make a better life for themselves leave the UK and head to mainland Europe, Canada, Australia and NZ. Edward's example of the shift of scientists from Switzerland to else where as the funding changed is a prime example.

This for me is a real risk that will impact the future of the UK - although saying that, there is the likelihood that the London financial markets are moving to Amsterdam is lessening (they wouldn't be able to be paid as much in bonuses).

If the "trades" dependent industries slow, whilst other countries pick up then there is the potential they will head to where the work is - and much like the Poles et al, they may will be welcomed with open arms...

Ed

 

[Shayne]

Hi Shayne,

I respect your point of view, and I really don't claim to be an expert on this, but if I look at the countries of the world by export (which I guess is what you mean):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports
... half of the top 10 are from the EU (including the UK in that, as we are still in the EU for the moment).

Above us are Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands.

How does leaving the EU make us more industrial, when the EU countries are doing so well? And are you sure that the problems you perceive are the EU's fault and not those created by London-centric politicians?

Cheers,

Ed

I like your post Edward especially the London-centric and EU comparison . I don't believe us leaving the EU will make us more anything .
What it will do is give us democracy back so politicians even in London are governed by the people who elected them instead of as it is now governed by Brussels bankers .

I remember reading in a local rag the council had spent £20,000 each on a bunch of bollards with thanks to an EU arts and farts grant and i thought to myself there's soup kitchens popping up all over the country , i wanted to punch somebody .

Most of our exports are financial services , insurance and the like , London is an international accountant moving billions through cyberspace day in and day out and physical location matters not a jot to them .

Why would you move such business from a location that has historically stood its ground through thick and thin for hundreds of years gaining greater influence on a world map all along the way . Especially when the alternative is a political arrangement 23 years old that is doomed to failure ?

As for industry we need to start again , it will take decades and its likely too late for our kids but their kids should recognize the shame of unemployment as we did when we were young .

Apprenticeships and job security = a productive nation from the core . A bit like Germany i suppose .

 

[Brian S]

Just being the pedantic git I can be
Everyone talks of eu funding, now the eu isn't a country, it makes nothing, it sells nothing, it has no money, so where does eu funding come from?
It comes from the member states that make up the eu, some paying more than others.
The eu in it's generosity give some of this money back in the form of funding and grants, in other words your told what to spend it on, some grants you have to match the grant with your own money

Now wouldn't it be more prudent not to give the money to them in the first place, and have the option to use all of the money you handed over in the first place in your own country, and not just what they decide to give you back.

By the way, I'm in favour of The Common Market, a free trade agreement between the European countries, but not the political (and corrupt) entity it morphed into

 

[Rob Cowell]

Now wouldn't it be more prudent not to give the money to them in the first place, and have the option to use all of the money you handed over in the first place in your own country, and not just what they decide to give you back.

This rather depends on whether you trust the UK government to share the love. I think we've done well in my bit of Wales by having a socialist leaning fund manager looking after a tiny bit of UK expenditure, as a slight balance against what has for a long time been a South-East England focused, capitalist approach. We've had big investment in making the heads of the valleys road a dual carriageway, half funded by the EU. Kids play areas and generally tidying up the place in the valley I live in. Conversely, I am aware that pumping cash into Barry has ruined the place.

I personally don't trust the UK government to poke much cash into infrastructure projects outside of 2 or 3 big cities. Mostly 1 big city, and maybe the odd high speed railway into that city. Perhaps another airport for that city. Other people have faith in this changing soon. We shall see.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

Pat's last post has just made me make a connection with Edward's posts - I think that there is the potential for a brain drain from the UK as those who feel they can make a better life for themselves leave the UK and head to mainland Europe, Canada, Australia and NZ. Edward's example of the shift of scientists from Switzerland to else where as the funding changed is a prime example.

This for me is a real risk that will impact the future of the UK - although saying that, there is the likelihood that the London financial markets are moving to Amsterdam is lessening (they wouldn't be able to be paid as much in bonuses).

If the "trades" dependent industries slow, whilst other countries pick up then there is the potential they will head to where the work is - and much like the Poles et al, they may will be welcomed with open arms...

Ed

The brain drain has already started, I had one of those ad's on my facebook page advertising positions for Doctors and medical staff in Australia and New Zealand.
Combine that with the impostition of new contracts on junior doctors and we will see an exodus of highly skilled medical staff.
Then the NHS can be dismantled and privatised under the cover of "we need to be more competive in order to recruit doctors"

 

[chadr]

Surprisingly honest......however considering the pro-Brexit position The Sun took, it's also a bit woeful really.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zqwlc

 

[chadr]

Looks like our next PM will be Mrs May - I'm not a supporter of her or her party but I sincerely wish her luck and hope she can bring some much needed stability and calm to the current situation.

Interesting to see how a pro-Remainer will become the Tory party leader and PM, whereas the pro-Leavers - Johnson, Gove, Farage et al, have all fallen by the wayside.........some in spectacular fashion.

Meanwhile the joke that is the labour party continue on with their own internal leadership battle.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Looks like our next PM will be Mrs May

Lets hope she frees us from the shackles of the unelected elite.

 

[chadr]

Lets hope she frees us from the shackles of the unelected elite.

But of course she is one of us and we've taken back control of our country, innit?

Ah, the irony.....

 

[MarkW]

I assume your being ironic Rob?

 

[Rob Cowell]

I assume your being ironic Rob?

Indeed. I was unable to find an ironic smiley.

 

[chapel gate]

Im quite excited by the prospect of another woman prime minister tbh.

 

[Chas]

Im quite excited by the prospect of another woman prime minister tbh.

Why?

 

[Shayne]

Sadly i think she probably is the best man for the job . There's no predicting where its all going though , the bankers will still be using tax payers money to buy out all opposition to what they want , but even they will be forced to wonder how and why the current situation came about and what can be done to fix it .

 

[chapel gate]

Why?

Dont know chas. Just am. Are you not?

 

[Chas]

Well not so far, it remains to be seen what she does with the job but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[BobMurphy]

The way it has all worked out, Cameron may as well have stayed on . I have more faith in him than in Mrs May.

I liked Andrea, but her lack of experience in dealing with reporters let her down. She should learn to keep her mouth shut. She was in danger of becoming the "Village Green Preservation Society" candidate .

It will be interesting to see who is appointed to the Cabinet.

Unfortunately, I think there will be endless attempts by 'Remainers' to overturn 'Exit' decisions, despite Mrs May's "Exit is Exit" statement. They will think they're pushing at an open door .

Bob.

 

[moggy1968]

The brain drain has already started, I had one of those ad's on my facebook page advertising positions for Doctors and medical staff in Australia and New Zealand.
Combine that with the impostition of new contracts on junior doctors and we will see an exodus of highly skilled medical staff.
Then the NHS can be dismantled and privatised under the cover of "we need to be more competive in order to recruit doctors"

Thats been happening for a while, although I am bemused and amused that those that voted remain crow about moving to a country thats not allied into a large multi country market and exercises strict immigration controls, the very things they voted against, loudly!

Sadly I am convinced the Government intends to strangle the NHS until they can finally say 'look, it's failing, we need to privatise it' and unfortunately May is one of those in favour, along with the 70 other tory politicians who have financial interests in private healthcare countries.