Evoque and Range Rover keyless entry defeated

[Crispin]

Seems that insurers are refusing insurance on some vehicles with keyless entry as it is apparently easy to defeat.

"In a statement, Jaguar Land Rover said vehicle theft through the re-programming of remote-entry keys was an on-going problem which affected the whole industry."


I wonder how (goes on a fact-finding mission). With security and basic cryptography such a big thing in computers and communication how can the modern car still be beaten? Seems like perhaps the industry has the attitude of the internet 5-10 years ago?

 

[Towpack]

Saw this on the news. All they said was the thieves get access to the ECU and then reprogram a new FOB with which they can start the car. My Dad's Beemer has keyless entry and somewhere on it (inside somewhere I think) there's a connector/port to access the ECU for diagnostics etc but how you get in to start with, without actually breaking in, is anyones' guess.

 

[frank rabbets]

Thieves are obtaining copies of the dealer computers which are able to open and start the whole range. Other aids on the car are being immobilised.

 

[frank rabbets]

And another thing , if you stole a car when I was young you'de be in for a real .ucking scary time. Put the penalty up until the crime stops.

 

[Mblinko]

They should control all access to vehicle ECU systems using finger print ID. When you buy it from new your thumb print should be required. When your garage wants to change ECUs or settings on them, a thumb print should be required....for convenience, there should be a service mode which lasts n days from thumb print provision. Thumb print updates on subsequent sale and purchase is a service the dealer should be compelled to provide free, for all time.

 

[frank rabbets]

They've just sold out of Alsatians up here .

 

[clivehorridge]

This is the chap to get, Carpathian Sheepdog, they only let go when the blood they're tasting goes cold...



Obedient and trusted, fantastic dog if you can afford to feed it, it's as big a a bear!

 

[Cptsideways]

There is a very extensive thread on pistonheads all about the BMW issue. Basically they break a window which won't set the alarm off, reach down to the OBD port & 20secs later new key programmed. I've also heard they can access the ecu's via the door window electrics on the canbus.

 

[Crispin]

It seems laughable that absolute trust is given to you from the inside of the car while the alarm is armed.

That's like having a "dismiss" on your website's login page.

 

[moggy1968]

just reinforces my lack of faith in technology!! Keyless start, keyless entry, electric steering and all that guff, don't like it, don't trust it.

thumbprint? no thanks. Anything complex will go wrong and will let you down when it's least convenient and will be difficult and expensive to fix!
It's the first law of technology dynamics

 

[kamaangir]

Clive, they call them sarplaninc (the "c" is pronounced as "ts"), looks like the same dog. My brother inlaw had one, they are a primitive breed and very independent, there are videos of them savaging wolf packs single handed. Once they decide to use force it will be mortal combat. Very hardy too but need massive space, they have huge amount of energy to burn. They are not dogs that dote on their owners like other breeds and training needs a different approach.

I would love to get one but living in town it would be unsuitable and lead a miserable life.

 

[clivehorridge]

Clive, they call them sarplaninc (the "c" is pronounced as "ts"), looks like the same dog. My brother inlaw had one, they are a primitive breed and very independent, there are videos of them savaging wolf packs single handed. Once they decide to use force it will be mortal combat. Very hardy too but need massive space, they have huge amount of energy to burn. They are not dogs that dote on their owners like other breeds and training needs a different approach.

I would love to get one but living in town it would be unsuitable and lead a miserable life.

Interesting kamaangir, I didn't know that. They do look the same, although I suppose there are variants of the breed in different parts of Eastern Europe.

I have a couple of friends with them, and my mother-in-law has one (Jessie) as a guard on her small holding which is remote from the house. All those that I know are as soft as brushes and they're very affectionate. However, those trained as sheepdogs on the mountain are very dangerous. They're trained to kill as protectors of the sheep, and they don't discriminate between wolves, bears or humans.

At at the local ski resort, the mayor has banned the shepherds from grazing the mountain where the tourists go, because there have been several attacks in the past. One French tourist was killed a year ago, which caused a big scandal.

I've been chased on my bike by them, downhilling on the mountain, and it's pretty scary.

They're not small, and that's a fact.







The he pups are cute too (this one's owner's not bad either!)



Sorry for for the thread-jack Cris, but Frank started it

 

[moggy1968]

thats not a dog, thats a Ewok!!

 

[Towpack]

It was inevitable that electronics would find their way into engine management. There's only so much you can do with mechanical development and with more power, economy and cleanliness being demanded from IC engines, electronics was/is the only way to achieve that. It's just a pity IMO that electronicery is also invading virtually every other system and component in modern vehicles.

 

[Crispin]

I'm pretty sure the owners of horses said the same about the blasted steam engines.


You should not have a lack of faith in technology (something ironic about your quip when you post it using a computer which connects to the internet to a server in France (I think) which I am reading on a computer in Hertfordshire). It's the implementation and design of the technology which you should be worried about. That is what lets you down. It's equally as easy to design unreliable, purely mechanical solutions. Look at Land Rover. Case in point, the encoding, encryption and frequency hopping of the car keys has been in existence since the 90s. That fact that they (so every stupidly) said "right, I will allow you to add a new key without challenge. That ​is the part where the person needs to be slapped.

 

[Shayne]

Yep nothing wrong with electronic technology , vehicle break downs , garages and even tool kits will be a thing of the past soon . All you will need to carry is a credit card so you can download a fix from the drivers seat - or walk home .

 

[moggy1968]

electronics is the new rust. perfectly good cars get written off as uneconomic to repair because of electronic faults that are too time consuming/expensive to fix. You don't just plug in a credit card, and download a patch just yet, they plug it into a diagnostic computer, then look blank and can't solve the problem, because unlike mechanical things, electronics does weird shit! And when they have a patch you can download it will probably just bugger something else, same as windows upgrades do now!!

Technology will not stop vehicle breakdowns, that's a complete fantasy, the same fantasy as the paperless office we were promised, or those that told us 30 years ago that the technology would free us all to have more leisure time when all it has done is bring longer working hours and forced our work lives into out home lives.

Technology has it's uses, I would have really struggled to rebuild my landcruiser without it to source parts (although people did manage to restore rare cars before the internet!!) and yes, it helps me connect with like minded people through forums like this, but people managed that long before the internet came along. Once upon a time, people did actually manage to exist without the internet, or being permanently glued to a mobile phone.

So often I have seen a technical 'solution' bought in that has taken longer, caused more stress, and done the job less well, just because the techies, rather than the end users, want it, because in their blinkered deranged minds, technology is good, manual is bad. Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally anti technology. It brings a lot into my life I wouldn't have otherwise. It helps me in my day job to bring sick people back from abroad, a job that would be very difficult without the technology, but technology, while it has it's uses, also has it's limitations that those that are in love with it frequently overlook as they force it on others to the exclusion of all else.

 

[MarkW]

View attachment 16037

The pups are cute too (this one's owner's not bad either!)

Should have gone to specsavers Clive

 

[Towpack]

I've no problem with technology. I work in the comms/IT industry and install, fault and repair it every day. I would just prefer not to have everything on a vehicle controlled by little black boxes, especially when said technology proves to be it's achilles heel.

 

[moggy1968]

I've no problem with technology. I work in the comms/IT industry and install, fault and repair it every day. I would just prefer not to have everything on a vehicle controlled by little black boxes, especially when said technology proves to be it's achilles heel.