Frankenstein 10PA 17C replaces seized 10PA 15L compressor.

[frank rabbets]

My 1995 diesel 80 has a 15L which is seized due to virtually no oil in the system.

I have two 17C's in bits. One is seized but has a good shaft. The other is OK but the shaft is rusty and the seal may leak.

Will the 17C replace the 15L ? Did the diesels get the 15L and the petrols get the 17C ? Karl .............

The picture below shows that the front of the pumps are flush where the pulley will go and the top and bottom bolt holes have the same centres so the 17C should be OK. I must use the old clutch/pulley assy though of the 15L.



The picture below shows all the parts I need for a complete 17C. I have to use the outlet plate off the 15L. Also I bought a genuine Toyota shaft seal to replace the one in the aftermarket seal kit. Other seals in the aftermarket kit should be OK, they have to be as OEM are not available that I can find. I have ordered 134a gas compatible oil which is PAG 46. I'll need 7/8 ounces and I've made sure it has the UV dye in just to check for leaks. There is a front and rear valve body. I have not split them yet to check them as they are a nightmare if I get them muddled up.



Back up to the lab to assemble "Franky".

 

[StarCruiser]

Are all bores and strokes the same Frank? If so I would say happy days.

Interested to see how this goes.

 

[frank rabbets]

I measured the pistons from the 15L and 17C and they are identical diameter at circa 30 mm. The stroke of the 15 is 22 mm but the stroke of the 26 mm so the 17 is presumably a higher capacity. From what few Landcruisers I've seen I think the diesel had the 15 and the petrol the 17. My 2004 diesel 100 looks like it only has the 15 even though it has rear air con. I can't see the back plate to confirm though.

I degreased and cleaned all the parts of the 17 with the air line. I compared all the parts of the 15 with those of the 17 and found all pats are different apart from the bearings and back plate. Also possibly the valve plates.

I assume all parts of the same type of compressor are interchangeable. Gone are the days of shimming etc with this type of product. As there is no WSM that I know of I proceeded with caution.

I polished the part or the shaft that takes the seal in the lathe with 2000 grit dry paper with a sideways too and fro motion so that grooves would not be formed. Then with hard plain paper and Brasso.

I assembled the shaft into the cylinder casings and clamped them together simulating the 5 bolts. Then I found the shaft spun fairly easily and there was no end float. I would have been worried if it was stiff to turn which would have meant an unknown an mount of preload. The Toyota manual explains how to change the shaft seal and to check the shaft starting torque is 26 lbs/inch or less so it is "easy" to turn.

The little raised lines highlighted in white on the pistons go to the front. The pistons seem equal each end apart from the oil grooves which have different offsets.



Next I assembled the pistons with the shaft.



Then held the front cylinder casing in the vice whilst feeding the shaft end through followed by the pistons. There is almost NO piston/cylinder clearance. The oil forms the seal. I didn't forget the large "o" ring.



I then slid the rear cylinder casing on and made a seal spreader.



I thought it best to put the seal on the spreader first. The seal has 3 lips and the inner one shown uppermost can turn inside out and would not be visible to check if the seal was already in the front casing. All 3 lips should be pointing in towards the inside of the pump. I then put the seal with spreader inserted and checked into the front casing ready for the whole of this assy to be slid onto the shaft and the whole slid down into place without damaging the seal.



Then it was time for a painkiller and cuppa .

 

[Chris5-7chev]

Thanks for the post Frank, very interesting so following closely..

Also saw the Classic Car Show ad. at the top, Ally Pally this weekend, very tempting.

 

[chapel gate]

Interesting thread frank, and a very catchy title

Ive never had to rip into mine and long may it last..

So you did put it down to lack of oil in the end? Maybe i was onto something with this adding oil thing..

Good work, are replacement parts available for these?

 

[Dave2000]

Frank go with the 17, this was used on rear AC 80's and also seen on versions that have the centre console freezer. Was the 'V' pulley the same diameter/width? Seen a couple with a weird 'wide' V, unsure why? Go with 8 oz pag mate.

regards

Dave

 

[StarCruiser]

Just a thought, and I may have some info coming to back this up, the 17 is of a larger duty than the 15. Both scenarios, fridge, rear AC, require extra refrigerant, which the 17 delivers over the 15. If there is an option of a slightly larger pulley (around 13% larger) your duty would be reduced to about the same as the 15. This is assuming the 15 and 17 relate to the duty.

Reasonable?

 

[frank rabbets]

Chris you can't get Denso parts. They just do not supply them apart from the front seal from Toyota which is Denso. Yes it was lack of oil with me changing parts over the years and not putting oil in which was lost in the scrap parts. The pump and condenser were almost dry!! I sort of assumed the recharging specialists would put the oil in but they didn't so I'll know what to look for. I will however put all the 8 ozs I have ordered into the compressor then turn it 30 times with the pipes on so it does not lock up. Do I do that after the gas is in Dave? The 17 pulley I have has a different offset so I'll use the 15 pulley which will line up. Both pulleys have the same section v but that will not be important now. My 100 has the 15 I think but has rear air con.

Yes reasonable I think re; the pulleys, but it's only 10% larger so I think a straight swap will be OK with the same amount of gas as the 15 as I only have the one evaporator setup ?

Thanks for the input chaps. I'm confident of success ish. Toyota say delivery is now another month away at the best. The new 15 is still on order but they don't mind if I cancel.

 

[frank rabbets]

Final pics tomorrow hopefully.

 

[StarCruiser]

How much were Toy quoting for the 15 out of interest, if you don't mind me asking (and I've not missed it somewhere)?

 

[Towpack]

I sort of assumed the recharging specialists would put the oil in but they didn't so I'll know what to look for.

How does that old saying go........"Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups"! However I reckon you were perfectly entitled to assume the specialists would add lube and do the job right Frank. I think most of us would do the same. At least you know which 'specialist' to avoid in the future. I've had my last 2 recharges done at Kwikfit by a robotic machine they just connect up and it does the rest. Vacuum drains, recharges and adds lube in one continuous operation, competitively priced too. Very happy with their service.

 

[Dave2000]

Add the entire 8 oz Frank, rotate to distribute, fit compressor, advise engineer you have added the pag. He will vac system and then refill with 134. I could not remember what the issue was with the pulleys but knew there was something different, so thanks for refreshing the grey matter.

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

SC, they quoted £349 incl VAT for the compressor.

TP They did have an automatic machine. They just put my reg number in but I think then they used the wrong program. It's a long story but looking back I think there was a misunderstanding and they thought I had put a new compressor on which would have had all the oil in. I had put a new condenser and receiver on. I stood with the man who commented on the "new bits and pieces" while the machine went through the program. I'll pay attention next time. I think there is a regas program and a full oil program, but I'm guessing a bit.

Thanks for advice Dave, as usual.

 

[frank rabbets]

TP I've been in trouble before with this assumption thing. My A/C packed up a few years ago and I found some leaks and assumed I had found them all but did not check that bullet proof looking pipe across the back of the bulkhead. I took it for a regas and the garage assumed I had checked everything. The regas soon failed as there was a hole in the bulkhead pipe!! Neither of us did our jobs properly. Too many cooks I think.

 

[frank rabbets]

Finished off the compressor today. Not many photos needed but I remembered to put the 2 large "o" rings in and 5 new aluminium washers under the bolt heads. I also forced the tapered circlips into place rather than just relying on there natural spring. They closed up a lot more. My pulley had come loose on the old compressor and worn the housing nose badly. I've seen loose coils as well. Also put the felt seal soaked in thick oil in the nose and held in place with a 3 eared clip.



I put 3 20 thou thick washers on the friction plate to imitate the air gap and selected a shim which gave this clearance.



DAVE ARE YOU THERE . I then put 8 ounces PAG 46 in the compressor and turned it over. The oil came up to the top of the outlet housing as shown below. Is that OK Dave? Obviously this is going to happen when the pump is first engaged after the regassing .

 

[Dave2000]

Sorry Frank, a good friend lost a family member apparently to an 'iffy' medical procedure last week, he had to attend the funeral so returned to the UK. He had asked me to house sit his home/dogs/cat/birds, there was no internet access, at one
point my phone announced I had a signal and showed your pm, I tried to reply but to no avail.

So back home and yes I am here now, you seem to have it all under control mate.

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

Well I thought something must have happened Dave. So sorry for that Dave.

All finished now but I cannot find anyone capable of communication.....or is it me? Had 1 failed attempt at regas and 2 conversations where they want to take all the oil out!! Kwikfit are on Watchdog next week so I'm not going there and Toyota have a new machine they do not fully understand.

Dave thanks again.

 

[StarCruiser]

Frank, find a local refrigeration engineer. Ask in your local take aways, restaurants etc who they use and contact him to do it. You don't want a machine you want someone who understands refrigeration systems.

 

[Towpack]

I don't think there's anything particularly fancy or mysterious about an air con system. It's just a pump driven sealed system filled with a refrigerant. I've refilled mine in the past with something similar to these...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Airco...550130?hash=item1c426d6632:g:rgQAAOSwHnFVjY85 after a leaking O ring lost most of the charge and it worked perfectly for another year or so until the condenser failed due to external corrosion on the matrix. Any air con specialist will no doubt tell you that this is NOT the way to refill a system but whatever, it worked. I've no problem letting a machine refill the system as long as the operator knows how to set it up. JMO

 

[frank rabbets]

Yes I've used similar in the past. Trouble is I would feel happier to evacuate my system as it's been in bits. The evacuation should remove moisture and test for serious leaks. I would use a can if I lost pressure over a long time and my UV light test on the components was clear.