Fuel pump settings and BeBs... truth or bull

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Hi List
I've been told that BEB's fail only on import vehicles, and that this
happens because their fuel pumps are set up for the lower cetane rating of
domestic Japanese diesel, and that once the bearings are replaced resetting
pump and injectors will cure the problem indefinitely. The source was
renowned Jap engine specialist API engines. Also, although struturally the
same, the Japanese engines lead a much easier life in Japan because of lower
speed limits etc. Does it ring true? Obviously refurbishing a pump and
injectors is a fairly major undertaking...
Thanks, Anwar
 
G

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Hi Anwar,
I wouldn't necessarily believe that one - can't quite see how the cetane
rating of the fule will affect the BEBs!
I have however noticed a higher incidence of fuel pump leaks with imported
80s which may well be fuel related.
For researching BEB problems a good place to start is:
http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/td_bearings.html
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Anwar,
Did that come from disinformation.org or something what a load of poppy
cock. BEB's never fail in japan, there diesel is good diesel (I can't
remember the specs, there petrol is even better 100 octane unleaded has
been available for years). I presume API can service the pump and
injectors for you to remedy the problem? Sounds like they are fishing
for work.
Cheers,
Craig.
Anwar Shah wrote:
 
G

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Craig
Isn't it possible that there is a grain of truth in this?
Wouldn't the cetane rating affect the timing of the combustion, and any
difference in the cetane rating - either better or worse - thus affect
the impact loads on the big end bearings? In particular any tendency
towards significantly early or late ignition must murder the bearings,
and surely adjusting pump timing a touch could help with this?
I know that cetane in diesel does not have the same anti-knock
properties as octane in petrol, but it must have a similar effect to
some degree.
For example my motor is noticeably quieter on the BP "Ultimate" diesel
sold in the UK (but not more economical :-{), or indeed the equivalents
sold on the continent (eg ESSO E-Diesel) - why is this? And surely
quieter implies less banging and crashing generally inside, and hence
less wear on the bearing shells.
Just some thoughts, but I'd be interested to hear what others think.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
|
| Hi Anwar,
| Did that come from disinformation.org or something what a
| load of poppy cock. BEB's never fail in japan, there diesel
| is good diesel (I can't remember the specs, there petrol is
| even better 100 octane unleaded has been available for
| years). I presume API can service the pump and injectors for
| you to remedy the problem? Sounds like they are fishing for work.
|
| Cheers,
| Craig.
|
| Anwar Shah wrote:
|
| > Hi List
| >
| > I've been told that BEB's fail only on import vehicles, and
| that this
| > happens because their fuel pumps are set up for the lower cetane
| > rating of domestic Japanese diesel, and that once the bearings are
| > replaced resetting pump and injectors will cure the problem
| > indefinitely.
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G

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On the other hand if the majority of the LC in Japan are under 3 years old
and low mileage it could be correct that in Japan they have very few BEB
failures, after the vehicle leaves Japan it is older and BEB may fail.
As to only imports failing..........
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford, UK
1975 FJ45 Pickup (In Work)
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G

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Hi Guys
Just to let you know the cruiser I have is a Uk vehicle and still had the failure.
What caused it I dont know, neither do the guys who repaired it and nor do Toyota so they say.
There appears to be too many veriables for them to concider, or maybe they just dont know or care.
All I know is it costs a lot to have it repaired than it does to have it looked at before.
In Aus they have seen this failure more but I think its because they have more cruisers of the same type there.
So I dont think its comfined to or mostly imports that have this.
The only thing that I remember hearing years ago about imports is the fact that even though they have lower mileage than the same year here. this does not nesaserryly translate to better engine wear.
>From what i remember I was told they (the cruisers) spend a lot of time in traffic on the roads in Japan and although they dont travel much they still end up with a lot of hours on the engines.
And as we have been told it is not good to let a diesel run on idle for long periods of time as all sorts of bad nasty stuff builds up in the engines.So sitting in a lot of traffic seems to fit that bill and without putting up the miles on the mile counter aswell.
Now whether this makes sense or not you can decide.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hi Christopher,
A very small grain.
Ther is only one injector setup worldwide.
There are two timing specs for the 1HD-FT plunger stroke of 1.52 - 1.58
mm for europe & 1.37 - 1.43 mm for Australia so we are not talking big
differences.
Worn nozzles that leak fuel on the compression stroke are murder on the
bearing's.
The cetane number is a measure of how easy the fuel is to get to ignite
by knocking basically. The higher the cetane it is the more easily it
ignites. The more easily it ignites the shorter the ignition lag the
less violent the pressure spike in the cylinder and the engine will
sounder crisper and quieter.
Oil viscosity can also significantly affect bearing susceptibility to
subsurface fatigue failures. If running 15W40 versus 10W30 you may think
you are protecting the engine with a more viscous oil and you maybe. But
the volume of oil that will be reaching the big ends will be smaller as
the more viscous oil is harder to pump. Since the oil acts as a coolant
for the bearing's as well as a lubricant a reduced oil flow means the
bearing temp will be typically hotter and one of the catalyst's to
subsurface fatigue failure is bearing temperature. Rate of load
application also affects it that is why you never see it on mains only
on the alternating load of bigends. It is seen on indirect injection
engines but much more rarely as the combustion load increases much more
slowly.
Some of the more clever newer engines such as Fiats multijet which may
inject fuel upto 4 times on a single power stroke can increase the
combustion load rapidly but in a more controlled manner than the older
VE type pump engines so that as well as bearing loads are smoothed
engine noise is also reduced.
Cheers,
Craig.
Christopher Bell wrote:
Snip
 
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Craig
Thanks for your views. I'm surprised that the Ozzie injector pump
setting is different - why is that?
I'm running 10w-40 Castrol GTD (of which it appears to consume
practically none). Which reminds me, I must change it!
Christopher Bell
[Craig wrote]
| Ther is only one injector setup worldwide.
| There are two timing specs for the 1HD-FT plunger stroke of
| 1.52 - 1.58 mm for europe & 1.37 - 1.43 mm for Australia so
| we are not talking big differences.
<snip>
| Oil viscosity can also significantly affect bearing
| susceptibility to subsurface fatigue failures. If running
| 15W40 versus 10W30 you may think you are protecting the
| engine with a more viscous oil and you maybe. But the volume
| of oil that will be reaching the big ends will be smaller as
| the more viscous oil is harder to pump.
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G

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Guest
Hi Anwar,
Soot loading is irrelevant to subsurface fatigue failure of the
bearings. If you look at any pics of bearing's that have failed in that
mode there is generally little or no wear on the bearing surface it is
just that the bearing has fallen to pieces. A worn out bearing will show
scratches and or scuff's in the direction of rotation and look as though
someone has gently worked away at it with some fine sandpaper to wear it
away (see top left pic here that is normal wear
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng219.htm, note the bearing to the right. It
is not just cruisers that have that failure mode, aero engines are
susceptible too especially since they use an extremely simple old style
additive package by law).
Extreme soot loading will cause lots of other problems long before it
causes bearing wear. The 1HZ is indirect injection and it's soot loading
(due to the naure of indirect injection) is typically 10-20+ times as
high as the facory turbo's yet subsurface fatigue failures of there
beb's are extremely rare.
The very fisrt one I saw was a NZ new one that was serviced by the
dealer every 5000km at the same dealer for every service from new and at
about 4 years old and 160,000km it ran a big end post bearing failure.
It was never used off road never towed anything just used as a large
family car. I don't know whow API are but it sounds like you should
speak to someone more knowledgable about cruisers like Maarten at
All-American in the Netherlands. If you are worried about your own car
either pull the sump pan and have a look or do an oil analysis every now
and then and look for a trend line of increasing levels of aluminium or tin.
Cheers,
Craig.
Anwar Shah wrote:
> Thanks John
>
> That about what ties in with what API told me when I took the truck
> for them to cast their eyes over it. They said they only saw one or
> two failures a year, mostly from vehicles that were neglected or
> abused (some local contractors persistently tow 7 tons with theirs).
> Aside from that it just seems that thorough maintenance, keeping the
> fuel system periodically flushed, and getting smoky exhausts treated
> early will avoid trouble. Smoky exhausts, beyond the normal turbo
> related enrichment, will cause deposits to blow-by, getting into the
> crankcase and the BeBs.
>
Snip.
> Anwar
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
 
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