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fuel tank
- Thread starter chewy
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Not as far as I remember. Only bits inside the tank are the sender and pickup.
Veg on a 120? Pretty sure there was a conversation about this and possible problems with the common rail setup.
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Veg on a 120? Pretty sure there was a conversation about this and possible problems with the common rail setup.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Just agreeing with what Andrew says above, complex common rail diesel engines and basically anything with unnecessary complexity will not like WVO, if you want to do that, you would be better served buying a 'proper' diesel engined vehicle.
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Julian T
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Older common rail and Bio fuel is a big no no, common rail and wvo is a very big no no, reason being is the seals and washers and aluminium piping cannot withstand the corrosive effect of the additives to make it combustible, if you go straight veggie oil then you have the issue of everything clogging up if I remember it right.
I believe the best diesel engines for use with veggie are the ones that have a inline injector pump like the 40 series 2H diesel unlike the 1HD-T which has a rotary injector pump.
I seem to recall that the 123 series Mercedes 300D engine is a very good candidate for running on WVO, this guy impressed me a while back as he runs his on veggie oil and overlands.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/4wd-overland-tech/another-kind-rtw-vehicle-83-a-51436
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...W123-Expedition-300TD?highlight=300d+mercedes
I believe the best diesel engines for use with veggie are the ones that have a inline injector pump like the 40 series 2H diesel unlike the 1HD-T which has a rotary injector pump.
I seem to recall that the 123 series Mercedes 300D engine is a very good candidate for running on WVO, this guy impressed me a while back as he runs his on veggie oil and overlands.
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/4wd-overland-tech/another-kind-rtw-vehicle-83-a-51436
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...W123-Expedition-300TD?highlight=300d+mercedes
Last edited:
Beau
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The 1KZT engines (both mechanical and electronic pump) could run straight veg oil once it was warm enough for it not to congeal. There are plenty of people who have put thousands of miles and the veg oil hasn't given a problem.
The 120 series has the 1KD lump which is very similar the 1KZT-E (Block is practically the same). The main difference is how the fuel is supplied to the engine, in this case the newer D4D engines measure the fuel at the Injectors and is a major component of these engines. I am sure the main fuel pump could handle the Veg Oil, but the Injectors could suffer over time, especially if the Veg oil isn't filtered properly. However I have heard people with D4D engines run veg oil and so far haven't had any problems...
However if things do go wrong, it can be quite costly...
To answer your original questions, there is no lift pump in the tank. Just the main fuel pump which pulls the fuel through. You could plumb both veg and aux tank into one main line and use some sort of diverter valve to swap which one the engine draws fuel from.
The 120 series has the 1KD lump which is very similar the 1KZT-E (Block is practically the same). The main difference is how the fuel is supplied to the engine, in this case the newer D4D engines measure the fuel at the Injectors and is a major component of these engines. I am sure the main fuel pump could handle the Veg Oil, but the Injectors could suffer over time, especially if the Veg oil isn't filtered properly. However I have heard people with D4D engines run veg oil and so far haven't had any problems...
However if things do go wrong, it can be quite costly...
To answer your original questions, there is no lift pump in the tank. Just the main fuel pump which pulls the fuel through. You could plumb both veg and aux tank into one main line and use some sort of diverter valve to swap which one the engine draws fuel from.
I have run about 9 different vehicle on veg and bio. This includes E class mercs as well as 4 hilux surfs with the 1kzte engines and some Direct injection engined VW cars.
Bio fuel is not the same as veg oil. Bio fuel can be ethanol E85 or Bio diesel. Bio diesel is made by transesterfication and is a direct replacement for derv (dino diesel) in majority of vehicles.
Veg oil is just what it is, liquid stuff you get from the shops and fry things in it.
The reason that you can't run straight veg (ie sling it in the tank with no mods, like I do) is that common rail injectors work at significantly higher pressures, 30k psi in case of early d4d, and cold veg is hard work for the injectors and the pump. Once the vehicle reaches about 40 and above degrees then using a flat plate heat exchanger you can reduce the viscosity of veg to near enough of diesel.
The other issue with running veg oil in direct injection is that unlike my 1kzte which has pre chambers where the fuel is injected into and warmed up before ignition, DI's injectors, inject directly in to the cylinder and if your engine is cold the veg does not completely burn and causes what they call ring gumming. This over time reduces compression and allows veg past the rings into the sump. Veg oil and engine oil mixing under heat and pressure cause polymerisation and you get a gelled up sump and knackered BEB's, you may be unlucky and get engine runaway as the engine oil pushes past the rings into the combustion side of the cylinder.
How ever having a twin tank will alleviate these issues in most cases and there are examples of people that I know of that have twin tanked common rail engines with out issue.
I would be reluctant to do a twin tank on a d4d as they are fragile engines running on diesel never mind veg.
Further info pop over to biopowered.co.uk and vegetableoildiesel.co.uk both have a load of info and very mad but helpful members.
Hope that helps!
Bio fuel is not the same as veg oil. Bio fuel can be ethanol E85 or Bio diesel. Bio diesel is made by transesterfication and is a direct replacement for derv (dino diesel) in majority of vehicles.
Veg oil is just what it is, liquid stuff you get from the shops and fry things in it.
The reason that you can't run straight veg (ie sling it in the tank with no mods, like I do) is that common rail injectors work at significantly higher pressures, 30k psi in case of early d4d, and cold veg is hard work for the injectors and the pump. Once the vehicle reaches about 40 and above degrees then using a flat plate heat exchanger you can reduce the viscosity of veg to near enough of diesel.
The other issue with running veg oil in direct injection is that unlike my 1kzte which has pre chambers where the fuel is injected into and warmed up before ignition, DI's injectors, inject directly in to the cylinder and if your engine is cold the veg does not completely burn and causes what they call ring gumming. This over time reduces compression and allows veg past the rings into the sump. Veg oil and engine oil mixing under heat and pressure cause polymerisation and you get a gelled up sump and knackered BEB's, you may be unlucky and get engine runaway as the engine oil pushes past the rings into the combustion side of the cylinder.
How ever having a twin tank will alleviate these issues in most cases and there are examples of people that I know of that have twin tanked common rail engines with out issue.
I would be reluctant to do a twin tank on a d4d as they are fragile engines running on diesel never mind veg.
Further info pop over to biopowered.co.uk and vegetableoildiesel.co.uk both have a load of info and very mad but helpful members.
Hope that helps!
Thank you all for your replies! Can't believe someone started a thread that this site sucks. REALLY!!????
I've been using veg oil in a skoda Fabia 1.9sdi for the past 2 years. 100% during summer and 50/50 during spring and autumn. I have a good supply of free WVO which i settle for a month, taking the top layer and filtering in 10/5/1 micron socks. The skoda is used daily and so far so good. During the winter months, my stock of oil has increased (300 litres filters with another 200 waiting to be filtered). The car is mainly used by a friend who takes my staff to another premises and used nearly every day.
I wanted a vehicle that could use the excess oil that i have. I did some research and most like you say, tend to be the older cars. my technique of filtering was learnt through this site vegoilcar. I noticed that he used a series 120 land cruiser. I've liked the LC and my mrs always wanted a 4x4 but nothing too old. I then came across a one owner lc4 with 117K on the clocks, which has been maintained by one main dealer all its life. All invoices of work were present and the car looked in fantastic condition. Thought this was a good base to start with.
I spoke to Fran at 2toc to see if it was possible and arranged to see if he could fit a system. On Wednesday we fitted his system and yesterday i drove the 220 miles back on veg oil. I had a fuel tank fitted under the car (luckily spare wheel is on the rear door). I decided to use the main tank to hold veg oil and used the spare smaller tank for diesel (reason for asking the original question). The veg oil is heated by a 100w fuel filler jacket, 2 glow plugs and a heat exchanger. I have a thermometer as to know the temperature of veg oil. The system is flushed prior to stopping to ensure no veg oil is in any of the fuel system.
I understand there may have been problems before. But i am willing to take the risk, because if anything fails i will be looking to modify so that it can work (hopefully). I've other cars, so not a problem if it breaks down. The car is relatively cheap and i have lost more changing cars in the past. The money i save on fuel could offset any problems i may come across.
When driving back the car felt as powerful as usual. The only thing that felt different was when stationary with foot on brake in drive, the revs would drop 100-200prm and flutter slightly. When in neutral and park the revs are normal. Any ideas why? If anyone could point me out to people who have had problems running veg oil, please show me as i'd like to see what problems may come up and find a way to cure and modify. We noted that the fuel filter has a heater on it. Is there a way of controlling it or reprogramming?
Fran spoke to the chap at vegoilcar, and the only problem he's had is with a component from the veg oil system.
Thanks again for your advice guys! look forward to hearing more. Must say the the land cruiser is a lovely car to drive and so comfortable. My other Audis have hardly moved since i got it a few weeks ago.
I've been using veg oil in a skoda Fabia 1.9sdi for the past 2 years. 100% during summer and 50/50 during spring and autumn. I have a good supply of free WVO which i settle for a month, taking the top layer and filtering in 10/5/1 micron socks. The skoda is used daily and so far so good. During the winter months, my stock of oil has increased (300 litres filters with another 200 waiting to be filtered). The car is mainly used by a friend who takes my staff to another premises and used nearly every day.
I wanted a vehicle that could use the excess oil that i have. I did some research and most like you say, tend to be the older cars. my technique of filtering was learnt through this site vegoilcar. I noticed that he used a series 120 land cruiser. I've liked the LC and my mrs always wanted a 4x4 but nothing too old. I then came across a one owner lc4 with 117K on the clocks, which has been maintained by one main dealer all its life. All invoices of work were present and the car looked in fantastic condition. Thought this was a good base to start with.
I spoke to Fran at 2toc to see if it was possible and arranged to see if he could fit a system. On Wednesday we fitted his system and yesterday i drove the 220 miles back on veg oil. I had a fuel tank fitted under the car (luckily spare wheel is on the rear door). I decided to use the main tank to hold veg oil and used the spare smaller tank for diesel (reason for asking the original question). The veg oil is heated by a 100w fuel filler jacket, 2 glow plugs and a heat exchanger. I have a thermometer as to know the temperature of veg oil. The system is flushed prior to stopping to ensure no veg oil is in any of the fuel system.
I understand there may have been problems before. But i am willing to take the risk, because if anything fails i will be looking to modify so that it can work (hopefully). I've other cars, so not a problem if it breaks down. The car is relatively cheap and i have lost more changing cars in the past. The money i save on fuel could offset any problems i may come across.
When driving back the car felt as powerful as usual. The only thing that felt different was when stationary with foot on brake in drive, the revs would drop 100-200prm and flutter slightly. When in neutral and park the revs are normal. Any ideas why? If anyone could point me out to people who have had problems running veg oil, please show me as i'd like to see what problems may come up and find a way to cure and modify. We noted that the fuel filter has a heater on it. Is there a way of controlling it or reprogramming?
Fran spoke to the chap at vegoilcar, and the only problem he's had is with a component from the veg oil system.
Thanks again for your advice guys! look forward to hearing more. Must say the the land cruiser is a lovely car to drive and so comfortable. My other Audis have hardly moved since i got it a few weeks ago.
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It'll be pretty interesting to see how it goes with the veg. I don't recall a heater on the 120's fuel filter? I know there are two wires for the water trap sensor but don't recall more for a heater. Could be wrong though.
I'll be cool to see how it goes medium and long term. Do keep us updated
I'll be cool to see how it goes medium and long term. Do keep us updated
Thought I'd give an update on how its been so far. I've done nearly 9,000 miles since the conversion. Everything running fine apart from the hesitation i mentioned before, but still fine when put in neutral. Really enjoying the comfort of the landcruiser and being able to mount kerbs all the time. Only problem so far are people running into the back of me. I've had 2 new rear bumpers in the space of weeks.
I'll get a picture of the fuel heater. Its a dome shape next to the primer.
I've just got a tns600 to replace the current tns300. Only 2 connectors and the ariel fit. what do in need for the other connections? do i need to get a new gps antenna?
I'll get a picture of the fuel heater. Its a dome shape next to the primer.
I've just got a tns600 to replace the current tns300. Only 2 connectors and the ariel fit. what do in need for the other connections? do i need to get a new gps antenna?
