HDK CV's?

[Dave2000]

One of my CV's is starting to 'clack' when the diffs are locked up, even on a gravelly beach where the traction is not that good. It is the left side which has a Milners unit, a quick fix I thought, five years later and only now it is starting to protest, not bad huh? The OE right side is still in there but the car has just covered 250,000 miles so I am looking to replace them both with HDK greasable versions. Being touted as good or better than OE but a fair amount cheaper. The problem is they are no longer cheaper when getting them from our Australian cousins once the shipping is factored in. I did look at Milners but they seem to have a different supplier so an unknown quantity to me, and Ruff Trax also have a brand I have never heard off.

So, any known UK suppliers of the HDK (greasable) range or alternative?


regards

Dave

 

[chapel gate]

I have a hdk from milners dave. Not greasably though, well it is, but i sort of have to force it in by hand when its on the bench..

 

[Dave2000]

Thanks for that CG. They do a version that has a grease nipple at the front of the stub axle, super easy to pump grease directly to the cage area. Interesting if Milners has HDK though, they are known to be quite tough.

regards

Dave

 

[Chris]

Milner HDK.
Nearly new, did nothing to provoke this.

 

[Dave2000]

Bloody hell Chris! Was this on stock tyres etc? Is that, or rather was that a greaseable unit? What did Milners have to say about it? As per my first post, I have a Milners unit in the left side but stock size tyres, I have no idea who made it but it has taken plenty of stick thus far. I only went out to give the DL's some exercise now the beaches are clearing, that's when I can hear the Milners one starting to act up. There is plenty of grease in there.

regards

Dave

 

[Chris]

Std unit. Not been in long at all. It was on 4.56 diffs and 37s but essentially no off road activity. I went to our off road day with them but didn't really drive. On the way home in the snow, I pulled an Evoque out of a ditch. Drove 10 miles with no issues. Parked on drive. Next day, backed out of drive, locked it round and it made a horrendous noise and stopped. I pulled forward, pulled the axle and that's what I found. The bell was basically made from chocolate.

Took it to Milner and complained. Carl was sympathetic and said he'd send it back. I year on (2 years ago now) I nudged him and he said it was still on his desk. I bought genuine after that

 

[Dave2000]

Hmmm, a worrying story mate. I looked at their prices and they are not the cheapest out there, and I would rather have OE but, if I could get stronger for less I would have been happier. Looked at the Trail Gear stuff, and they have been selling Longs hardened gear but, are stronger when worked but, do not have the same longevity as the OE harden versions on the street use.

I would guess that Milners do not have to cough up for something being on a non stock application?

regards

Dave

 

[Chris]

There just doesn't seem to be a mid priced mid quality option out there. The Lezura ones you'd to be pretty good but I've not seen those for a long time. Ii thought about taking HDK ones and finding somewhere in Sheffield that could maybe induction harden them? They are as soft as cheese. I tried cutting an original and then an HDK. You could cut an HDK in half with a hacksaw.

 

[Lorin]

Hmmm, a worrying story mate. I looked at their prices and they are not the cheapest out there, and I would rather have OE but, if I could get stronger for less I would have been happier. Looked at the Trail Gear stuff, and they have been selling Longs hardened gear but, are stronger when worked but, do not have the same longevity as the OE harden versions on the street use.

I would guess that Milners do not have to cough up for something being on a non stock application?

regards

Dave

Dave, forgive me if I've misinterpreted but I'm not sure getting 'stronger' than OE is really possible. With the exception of upgraded CVs such as Longs that are specifically made for bigger wheels/increased torque settings (e.g. relatively 'hardcore' off-road), OE have to be the strongest and hardest wearing option there is. HDK and all the other cheaper prices options would not come close to OE in terms of strength or longevity for a truck on standard/close to standard size tyres. They are only really available as they fulfil the niche of being cheap. And the Longs suffer with reduced longevity over OE as a consequence of their increased 'strength'.

I haven't looked but would imagine ordering OE via Amayama might be a good option. Certainly considerably cheaper than buying locally or in the UK, even with all the associated import fees etc.

 

[Chris]

As a postscript to this, I have never seen first hand corroborated evidence that Longfields for eg do have a shortened road service life. I had a pair which are still on the Silver Phoenix and looking at them I'd find it hard to believe you would wear them out. I did hear that when Longfields were bought out that this issue (myth or reality) had been addressed. However. As they are the same price as a pair of genuine, I can't see there'd be a score really. It's the shipping that kills them; not the driving.

In relation to HDK, I can live with a cheap CV that starts clicking after 20k, say, but not one that randomly explodes as mine did. Some people have done many thousands of miles on them I know.

 

[Andy]

Go OEM,

I got genuine ones from amayama, big saving even with the associated import costs etc, cant remember exactly without digging out the paper work, but around 1/2 - 2/3 the price of gen here in uk, even with simons club discount.
still a lot more than the milners etc ones though, but...................................!
Andy

 

[Knucklehead]

I'm one of the lucky ones with HDKs as fitted them 3 years ago running 35s MT mixture on/off road. Will be interested to see state of them when eventually get round to servicing the axle again.

I got mine from Milners and only intended them as a temporary fix until got the OE money together. Never got round to changing them but reckon will go OE next time round as always have that little doubt about them.

 

[StarCruiser]

I got some a couple of years ago from Amayama. £160 each or thereabouts. I got two, plus needle roller conversion (still have if anyone wants them) plus all 4 window rubbers plus bearing seals and internal seals for less than the £800 or so the Mr T UK wanted. Delivered, with tax and duty.

I have a pair of CVs with short splines from Roo Dogs 4wd in Oz that are induction hardened if anyone wants them. Not sure of make but look very much like the OEM ones.

 

[Mblinko]

These are allegedly stronger than OE. I have them in mine and no complaints in the last 20k. Not cheap though.

 

[Dave2000]

Thanks for all the above......all.

The reason I asked was mainly that many across the pond and in OZ, reckon the greaseable HDK's are as strong as OE, and looking at HDK's site they make some pretty bold claims. Of course there is a trade off, you either have very strong with less longevity or vice verse. I did fancy a pair of longs, they via TG now do them with the greaseable fitment, i.e. perhaps regular 'direct' greasing 'may' extend their life. Looking at my mileage since purchasing a van for work means I am doing less miles than ever now so my go that way. Noting the RCV shafts, IIRC they were the original supplier to longs before he died?

I hate these tasks, as mentioned I have a Milners in there and it has done a sterling job, and an OE in the other side. The fact that the longs now have the drilling though the CV then this could be the way to go. I certainly do not need a 30 spline mod, as will all my mods, I may need to back pedal and replace with OE parts, if I go 30 spline it means having an expensive spare that I may never use. Staying with the stock shafts/upgraded CV I was hoping if I do get a breakage it will the narrow section on the stock axle, at least I can drive home with that if needed.

I will have a root around Amayama and see what they can do a pair of OE's for.

Thanks again,


regards

Dave

 

[Chris]

I think that greaseable CVs sound cool, but in all honesty are they really that necessary. I mean apart from them sounding as though they are stronger? If you pack the CV correctly and don't have any other issues, the grease should still be in there 60k miles later. It's like topping up the hub through the hole in the top. What for? That grease doesn't flow into the CV and if it's not leaking out of the swivel seals what is it exactly you're topping up. Iv'e just pulled my diff because of a problem, but the one side that I wasn't having an issue with looks the same as the day I sealed it up two years ago and it's been round the Baltic and to Morocco in that time. Really neat idea, just not sure it's really a necessary feature. I did wonder about having a pair bored locally though ...

 

[clivehorridge]

I've had Nitro-Gear chromoloy shafts and CVs in for the last 2 (or is it 3?) years.

Replaced both sides after having one of the original (short) shafts break on the spline inside the CV. It let go of all the balls, but with no signs of wear in the CV, very odd. I still don't know whether the broken shaft caused the CV to fail or vice-versa.

So far so good, and cica 100k km, but there was a hint of knock the other day reversing on lock, but I haven't heard it since.

I don't remember the price (only that they were cheaper than Mr. T) but I was lucky they were on someone's shelf, so I didn't pay the import or shipping...

 

[kingtom]

Am I right in saying the Nitro and RCV will wear quicker due to them being of a harder material? Has anyone tried the terrain tamer CVs

 

[Dave2000]

As I understand it with wear versus longevity is that the material used is stronger to start with than the OE material but, this is then treated with whatever the treatment is deemed necessary. I think harder is stronger but can also make the material more brittle? The softer material may 'give' a little but not break under load.

Re drilling, IMO I think it is a good idea. I do recall years back that after I had packed a CV with grease, and then some time years later another pull apart (IIRC for an axle seal leak) the grease that I had been using for topping up was a different colour to that used in the original build, some of the old grease was still in the back of the CV. There is a definite need for topping up, bearing in mind my rusty balls...ooooer....then I do loose grease a little at a time.

Damn it was so easy with the Discovery, I purchased it in Spain and drove it to the UK and went to a place somewhere up the M1, bought a whole load of tried and trusted 'competition grade' parts and bolted them in...and broke nothing! I think that was because the LR is (was?) better supported in the UK, and development had gone further, the 80 not so much. Fortunately I am not in 'need it now' mode so will continue to look around an see what I can find out, the joint reminded me to top up quite awhile back and then another reminder recently, so it is definitely on the very near future list.

Re Terrain Tamer, I am not sure who their supplier is? HDK has mixed reviews sooooooo?

EDIT: Found these
http://shop.cruiserparts.net/index....=36367&zenid=e304d2af710709e63175053dd7391411

This company is represented on 'MUD', and I doubt the guy would sell something that turns out to be rubbish, and I have used them in the past and received excellent service, this may be the answer to a strong CV joint at a decent price?

Had a look at Amamaya but need to dig out the correct part number, their descriptions are a little confusing.


Thanks for input thus far.

regards

Dave

 

[Chris]

The encouraging thing there Dave is the amount of description and acknowledgement of people using oversized tyres etc. It's a bit like roughtrax - they know about the parts. Milner just say what's on the box most of the time.