Hummer Brakes may be of interest

[Beau]

Would be worth getting the fluid changed and get a set of good quality pads in there and once the system is well minded it should work very well, mine is a lwb with no back seats and no abs but even with the load sensing valve adjusted it's a bit giddy in the back when you stick it to the road, in fairness I would prefer if it had abs.

The problem isn't the actual break system....You can upgrade the hoses, fluids, pads and disc and they will help to a certain degree, but not there full potential. The pads don't get a chance to work hard because the ABS kicks in too early, don't get me wrong, they do there job, just not as effective as they could be. If you remove the ABS fuse and break hard you will stop so much quicker and if you're not so heavy footed with the break pedal you can do it without locking the wheels as well. The improvement will have you thinking hard whether you want to keep them or not. Just goes down to driving style at the end of the day, some need it, some don't.

 

[Shayne]

I agree Beau ABS is a panic safeguard rather than an improved braking system .

 

[cavanmick]

I wouldn't quite say I need it, there us very little out there I haven't driven I'm just saying from having no abs on my cruiser I think it could be a little nicer with it, I haven't driven a 90 series with abs so can't make a like for like comparison.

 

[Julian T]

Here are all these comments where people prefer ABS and I personally would rather have a vehicle without ABS, traction control or stability, I must be strange.

 

[clivehorridge]

My very limited experience with ABS was driving a Terrano for 5 years and I didn't like it. Yes, in the wet, a panic brake would be controlled. But I had to stop quickly on a memorable occasion at a zebra, and it braked well downt 10 kph, then they simply let go even though I had my foot hard on the pedal.

That can't have been correct, but service couldn't improve it.

I see these gadgets as all well and good, but every one of them eats away a driver's ability to control a vehicle his/herself. I'm old, so it's new to me, but younger drivers are not being given the chance to learn how to drive, IMHO.

its my view that learning to drive is at least a 10 year process, to learn self and vehicle control thoroughly. These gadgets interfere too much with that process, IMO.

 

[Doodle]

Having ABS will never shorten your braking distances on it's own

What it does do is allow you to do is maximise your braking ability while still being able to steer around things, rather than ploughing straight on with the wheels locked. It can do this far better than cadence braking. It can't save you when there is no grip to be had though, which Clive's case in the Terrano seems to be indicative of.

In 99% of cases, if the ABS is kicking in regularly there is something wrong. When I first had my Ducati, I was tripping the ABS frequently. However, that was because the front suspension was too soft and bottomed out on the brakes, causing the front to lock.

 

[Shayne]

It swings in roundabouts , there's no doubt ABS prevents many an accident from occurring at all with teens just passed their test prone to knee jerk reactions and there's plenty out there who have drove for years without ever really conquering their fear of driving . I suppose it's all down to experience or lack thereof . I rode a bike on and off road for decades and if you get your braking wrong on a bike your gonna be in a world of pain . Driving or riding is instinctive , some have it and some don't . When i had my big crash the courts worked out i had half a second to stop when confronted with the immediate obstruction , yet instinctively i pulled the clutch locked the back wheel (its the fastest way to change direction on a bike) dropped the clutch and hit full throttle . It's hard to believe i know but instead of going straight through the back doors of a van i clipped and smashed the side lights with my handlebar and still maintained control of the bike . At that point i would have walked away without a scratch but unfortunately i met with a bloody great Mercedes box van coming in the opposite direction , even then i managed to avoid a full head on by aiming for the gap between the van and parked cars but as sod's law dictates it was only about a foot wide so most of my bike went through but i didn't .

 

[clivehorridge]

Having ABS will never shorten your braking distances on it's own

It can't save you when there is no grip to be had though, which Clive's case in the Terrano seems to be indicative of.

Not really Dood, a bit of misunderstanding there, it wasn't a grip problem, the brake backed off even though I had my foot hard down. The wheels were rolling as I bumped the guy on the crossing off his feet, which scared the sh!t out of me, even though I was only doing about 10kph by then.

The point I was making is when these things don't work correctly, you have no control.

Moreso, my point was that the more the car does the driving for you, the less adept at driving you become. It's like learning in a manual and driving an auto, that's fine. But the other way around? The auto won't allow you to become experienced with a stickshift.

Not much of a problem with gear changing, but brakes and steering and learning the limits of the car? How many complain of certain cars having no "feel" of the road?

To me, learning the "feel" of the road and the grip of the tyres, control, and all that goes with it, are essential to a driver. Maybe I'm too old for modern cars

 

[Beau]

A good driver can drive in the worst of condition without ABS, it goes down to feeling the road surface ect. You can corner break harder as well without ABS. I drove a T reg Ford Van and used to ring that thing in every gear and breaking would be the same, and it stopped well and quick.

But Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. ABS is good technology. However in these 14 year old trucks that weigh 3 tonnes, not so much. In my 350z that I drive, the ABS kicks in milliseconds before the wheels lock up, in cases they actually lock for a split second before the ABS over rides the breaks. I would say in a car like this, the ABS efficiency has been maximised. We essentially need the same thing done in our cruisers.

I had a similar incident to clive with my cruiser about 6 months ago. I was driving on to the motorway speeding up to join the motorway when a vehicle in front of me purposely breaks, no rear break lights, nothing. Emergency braked for a good few seconds, coming down from a speed of about 45-50mph, but the cruiser just went on and on, and went into the back of the car at around 10-15mph. The breaking process felt like forever. I know for a fact if I had no ABS I would have stopped way in advance. And before anyone ask, I couldn't swing around the vehicle, on coming traffic in the right lane, and no hardshoulder.

 

[Towpack]

If you remove the system completely you will have to fit a load sensing valve to the back axle as vehicles with abs don't have them and those without abs need them for Nct (Mot).

The later 80's had both ABS and a LSV?

 

[Towpack]

I agree Beau ABS is a panic safeguard rather than an improved braking system .

It's actually both. The whole idea of it is to improve the braking under a panic braking situation. Under controlled, anticipated braking then it's largely redundant but when someone/thing pulls out in front of you and the need for immediate, emergency braking arises, you will stand on the pedal for all you're worth, it's just instinct. I rode bikes with excellent brakes (non ABS) for years thinking I could feel the front brakes through any situation I was likely to encounter until the day came when a myopic farmer pulled out just yards in front of me. I just grabbed the front brake and squeezed as hard as I could, I can still vividly remember the sound of the tyre on the locked front wheel squealing.
A correctly functioning ABS system is definitely beneficial provided you don't use it as a 'safety net' and drive or ride like a tw*t. JMO

 

[moggy1968]

A skilled driver can stop quicker than ABS in a straight line by braking to the limit of adhesion. No one can outpace ABS when it comes to cadence braking round an obstruction in the road, especially on a wet road.

The vast majority of drivers, young or old, experienced or inexperienced will, as above, simply push their foot through the floor when faced with an emergency. It takes enormous presence of mind, and training, practice and skill, to take your foot off the brake and reapply it when your speeding towards your accident. Few can do it, and cars have to be designed for the idiot majority.

I would like to be able to disable ABS in 4wd though, because on many surfaces you face off road, ABS is a real hazard.

 

[Doodle]

Not really Dood, a bit of misunderstanding there, it wasn't a grip problem, the brake backed off even though I had my foot hard down. The wheels were rolling as I bumped the guy on the crossing off his feet, which scared the sh!t out of me, even though I was only doing about 10kph by then.

The point I was making is when these things don't work correctly, you have no control.

Moreso, my point was that the more the car does the driving for you, the less adept at driving you become. It's like learning in a manual and driving an auto, that's fine. But the other way around? The auto won't allow you to become experienced with a stickshift.

Not much of a problem with gear changing, but brakes and steering and learning the limits of the car? How many complain of certain cars having no "feel" of the road?

To me, learning the "feel" of the road and the grip of the tyres, control, and all that goes with it, are essential to a driver. Maybe I'm too old for modern cars

Arguably that's the case for many items on a vehicle, not just ABS. It seems rather ironic that an overweight 4x4 on lifted suspension and big fat mud tyres is probably one of the primary candidates for lack of "feel" and "feedback"

Equally, there are a significant number of drivers on the road that have no idea what ABS activation actually feels like, that there will be a shudder or buzz through the brake pedal

But Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. ABS is good technology. However in these 14 year old trucks that weigh 3 tonnes, not so much. In my 350z that I drive, the ABS kicks in milliseconds before the wheels lock up, in cases they actually lock for a split second before the ABS over rides the breaks. I would say in a car like this, the ABS efficiency has been maximised. We essentially need the same thing done in our cruisers.

I had a similar incident to clive with my cruiser about 6 months ago. I was driving on to the motorway speeding up to join the motorway when a vehicle in front of me purposely breaks, no rear break lights, nothing. Emergency braked for a good few seconds, coming down from a speed of about 45-50mph, but the cruiser just went on and on, and went into the back of the car at around 10-15mph. The breaking process felt like forever. I know for a fact if I had no ABS I would have stopped way in advance. And before anyone ask, I couldn't swing around the vehicle, on coming traffic in the right lane, and no hardshoulder.

My Collie felt exactly like this after the suspension lift until the LSPV was adjusted to suit. Normal usage was fine, but when called up to work hard they just faded away. On both it and the current 100 the ABS won't fire until a wheel has actually locked, so if this isn't the case perhaps some attention is required.

ABS isn't the answer in 100% of situations, for examples Beau's case where he just needed to stop, and no avoidance steering was required (or possible). But on the balance of probabilities, it's better to have it and learn to work with it if necessary than to not have it at all.

Just make sure it's working properly, along with the rest of your brake system.

 

[Doodle]

I would like to be able to disable ABS in 4wd though, because on many surfaces you face off road, ABS is a real hazard.

Aren't there certain circumstances where this happens? I seem to recall on the 100s it becomes less sensitive when the CDL is engaged, and shuts down completely with the RDL engaged. Can't recall if the 90 disengages ABS when in 4LL?

 

[Towpack]

The ABS on the 80's doesn't operate below 3mph and is deactivated when the CDL is engaged wether in H or low box.

From the owner's manual regarding the ABS system:

Compared with vehicles not fitted with ABS your vehicle may require a longer stopping distance in the following cases.

Driving on rough, gravel or snow covered roads.

Driving with tyre chains installed.

Driving on roads where the road surface is pitted or has other differences in surface height.

 

[Beau]

I think once you lock the centre differential the ABS doesn't work, or is it just for low range? Pretty sure it's once it's locked... But if you off road with a open centre differential (Normal settings) then you'll have to disable the ABS another way...

 

[frank rabbets]

My 80 worked differently with the viscous coupling out, so I put it back.

 

[Chas]

I think once you lock the centre differential the ABS doesn't work, or is it just for low range? Pretty sure it's once it's locked... But if you off road with a open centre differential (Normal settings) then you'll have to disable the ABS another way...

My ABS is disabled when CD is locked, doesn't have to be in low range.