injector pump woes

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Hi Guys
I had my cruiser given back to me at the weekend after they SAID they
stripped the injector pump down again.
They TOLD me it was tested and fine, they found no fault with their original
work they did and just reset all the setting to be sure.
He said all the stuff in the pump is new so its all good.
First impressions are that they f----- up again.
But as i dont know too much, well nothing about the mechanical side of
things I doubt myself.
It still has vibrations but they do seem to be less but I have not driven it
much so far
One big thing I notice for which I will bring it back in the morning is the
power or total lack of it.
It struggles to get to 50mph, has no power even up to that to the point it
is dangerious to even think to over take or pull out into moving traffic
etc.
The weird thing is the pump guy drove my cruiser half way to meet me so he
could collect his colorador.
I know its a fuel starvation problem but as I dont know how or how much to
adjust the fuel screw I have to bring it back to him.
So he is either asleep or hoped he could pass it off again.
Is there any thing else that could be causing the vibrations other than the
pump.????
I know ill have to source another shop to suss out the issue.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hi Guys
Im back from seeing the pump guys again and they gave it more fuel to
compensate for the lack of power I was experiencing when driving since I
got
it back from them over the weekend..
This is the second time they stripped the pump and have said that all
guidlines are correct.
That is except for the fuel which is now turned up a little but without
smoke.
The vibrations seem to be back stronger when put in D or R than when the
cruiser lacked power over the weekend.
Is there a connection between the injector pump and the Auto box or has nay
one else experienced this problem.
thanks
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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John,
I can't remember if you've done this already, but did you have them
check cylinder compression?
I assume the injectors are faultless and while refitting the injection
pump they have not mixed up the thin rubber pipe going to the vacuum
pump with that for the fuel return line.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 4/23/07, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Hey Roman
Where is all the info about your trip.
Cylinder compression please explain this to me and what is involved.
The engine is by all accounts in top condition at least that is what the oil
analysis tell me all the time, it told me the injectors are working fine too
because if they were not it would show something up in the engine oil , cant
remember what.
How can i check which hose is which.
thanks for the ideas
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Guest

Guest
Hey Roman
I looked and it would seem the vacuum hose is the one that returns to the
pump and only about 6 inches long while the fuel returns just above the
adjust screw.
I know I dont know much about these things but di you ever have a feeling
about something but need someone else to prove you are right.
Well even thought the pump guys are pointing the finger at the gear box im
not buying it one bit.
Its just ill have to get someone to back my hunch up.
I went out to start the cruiserwhen it was cold.
It started but would only idle at 400 revs and the engine was vibrating
madly and it was not in gear.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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John,
Compression test is standard diagnostics to see how well the valves
and piston rings seal the combustion chamber. Poor compression in one
or more cylinders equals reduced power output and may lead to
vibrations at low revs.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 4/23/07, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Hey Roman
Would this lack of proper combustion not show up in engine oil analysis.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
SNIP
 
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John,
There is an easier way - using a pressure gauge. Ask your Yaris man to
do it for you.
It could also show in the amount of oil burnt.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 4/23/07, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Guest

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Hi Guys
Just had some more advice about the injector pump and it would seem that
there is a kit that can be bought for the injector pump once it has been
rebuilt or while it is being rebuilt.
Does anyone know of such a kit or where to get it or is it needed.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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John,
AFAIK it's basically a kit containing seals and maybe one or two
replaceable items. Every diesel shop will know, so I don't think it
makes sense to bring your own.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 5/2/07, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Guest

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Hi John,
I still believe that your problem is air getting into the pipes on the
inlet side of things.
I had a probllem in Maroc where air was seepping into the injection
pipe where the inlet pipe bolts to the main block of the injection pump
- this was a known/expected problem caaused by the banjo bolt being
cross threaded at some point and was easily solved.
But the ingress of air into the caused exactly the problem you
mentioned.
Just to check thiings between the filter and pump, prime the pump using
the manual pump above the fuel filter and pump it until the pump goes
hard and try pumping further - see if there are any leaks - where fuel
comes out, air can get in.
Also check the fittings on the fuel filter - makes usre it is tightly
screwed on and also that the bottom water trap sensor is tightly
screwed on.
Another thing to ask the pump guy - did he check the suction of the
lifter pump - the pump that sucks the fuel up from the tank - this is
not part of the standard pump checks, but is usually done by a
competant injection company.
For all the time and money you are spending on this, I would be very
temmpted to get the pump taken out and sent down to the guys I know in
Swindon - they will charge ?80 + VAT to check the pump over to make
sure that it is properly set up - and then diagnose any faults your
pump chaps have missed.
I spent ?325 with them to strip down and service my pump and injectors
before my trip - over the 6000 mile trip I averaged the same sort of
consumption I get around here without a boot full of kit (stacked to
the roof) and two roof tents on the roof so I am hoping it will be a
lot better when I empty the car and the rooof rack.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Guys
The cruiser went off today to another injector pump guy to hopefully fix
what the other guy did or did not do.
I dont know if he was just acting or genuine but time will tell.
It only ttok him five minutes looking at it to prnounce that it was plumbed
in wrong and could actually be dangerious.
Now bear with me as he told me a lot and maybe ill be a plonker and get it
wrong here.
He noticed a few parts missing from the exterier of the pump one being the
cold start which he said should not have been taken off with it being an
auto, if it was manual maybe and the bit that usually can break off this is
only a little plastic bit that can be replaces no problem at all and showed
me on another what he meant..
Also there is a small rubber pipe that takes fuel from the injectors they
dont want and returns it I think back to the pump and to the tank, if im
right.
This was not connected to where he said it should be and instead it was
connected to the little intake above the injector s going back into the
engine.
He said fuel consumption would be effected and power as the pressure to
operate a diafram in the top of the pump was not enough.
He also mentioned that this could potentionally give a boost in revs from
the extra fuel which would make the engine run extremly high revs al of a
sudden.
I hope I got this right but ill get more info in a few days.
Confused a little
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Guest

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John,
Do you remember when I asked you a few weeks back if you checked that
these pipes had not been mixed up?
It seems to be a common fault made by mechanics who have no idea how
the pump is plumbed and who are too lazy to mark the pipes before
disconnecting them.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On 5/21/07, John Byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Guest

Guest
Make sure you get a report of the new mechanic and then claim the money back
from the original monkey.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of John Byrne
Sent: 21 May 2007 11:24
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] injector pump woes
Hi Guys
The cruiser went off today to another injector pump guy to hopefully fix
what the other guy did or did not do.
I dont know if he was just acting or genuine but time will tell.
It only ttok him five minutes looking at it to prnounce that it was plumbed
in wrong and could actually be dangerious.
Now bear with me as he told me a lot and maybe ill be a plonker and get it
wrong here.
He noticed a few parts missing from the exterier of the pump one being the
cold start which he said should not have been taken off with it being an
auto, if it was manual maybe and the bit that usually can break off this is
only a little plastic bit that can be replaces no problem at all and showed
me on another what he meant..
Also there is a small rubber pipe that takes fuel from the injectors they
dont want and returns it I think back to the pump and to the tank, if im
right.
This was not connected to where he said it should be and instead it was
connected to the little intake above the injector s going back into the
engine.
He said fuel consumption would be effected and power as the pressure to
operate a diafram in the top of the pump was not enough.
He also mentioned that this could potentionally give a boost in revs from
the extra fuel which would make the engine run extremly high revs al of a
sudden.
I hope I got this right but ill get more info in a few days.
Confused a little
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT

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Guest

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Hey Roman
I do indeed and I did check and they looked fine but the problem when I look
is its hard for me to find something out of place when i dont know where its
correct place should be to start with. Its much like looking at one of those
spot the difference pictures but I dont have the original picture to compare
the second one to.
Ill be happy when I get it back and it runs good.
he did repeat himself saying how the ---- could the other guys not have
seen this.
Ah well I have an excuse im mecanically stupid and im sticking to that
story.
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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If only claiming money back from a garage was as easy as that, once they
know they have lost any future work most of them will say the other
mechanics must have changed it, made a mistake or deny point blank ever
having worked on the engine...
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 21 May 2007 13:28
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] injector pump woes
Make sure you get a report of the new mechanic and then claim the money back
from the original monkey.
Pete
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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07:54
 
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I know this, but it has to be worth a try.
I wouldn't let it go without a fight.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 21 May 2007 14:01
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] injector pump woes
If only claiming money back from a garage was as easy as that, once they
know they have lost any future work most of them will say the other
mechanics must have changed it, made a mistake or deny point blank ever
having worked on the engine...
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 21 May 2007 13:28
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] injector pump woes
Make sure you get a report of the new mechanic and then claim the money back
from the original monkey.
Pete
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07:54

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07:54
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07:54
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07:54
 
G

Guest

Guest
True but I don't know if John will have and fight left in him by the time he
gets the injector pump working well!
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 21 May 2007 15:10
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] injector pump woes
I know this, but it has to be worth a try.
I wouldn't let it go without a fight.
Pete
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07:54
 
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On 21 May 2007, at 15:01, Malcolm Bagley wrote:
I'm out of touch with all this stuff, but I'd say get a legal opinion
before proceeding. I'd certainly say that they would not want it to
go to court, as the bias tends to be against the dealer.
See what is required legally, examine your paper trail and record of
facts and give it a shot. You might be surprised.
Neill Watson
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Even when the cruiser is gone I cant give you lot a rest , once a pest.
Cruiser is still off the road and when its your only vehicle its amazing how
much you can miss it.
After talking to the present guy it would seem that the last guy took the
whole cold start mechinism off the side of the injector pump. He said he
would never do that as it is on there for a very good reason.
I explained to him that a few people thought there was no need for it as we
dont live in very cold country.
He said he has to start from the start with all the bits attached to work
out what is wrong but he is 100% sure he can fix the issues.
I have heard this before but we shall see.
The other thing is he can't locate a new cold start mechanism form his usual
suppliers.
I asked for the pump no but he was really busy with phones ringing in the
back ground and a customer waiting .
Does anyone have the pump no for my heapor ideas where to get a cold start
bit other than AAI.
thanks
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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