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On 29/12/06 7:27 pm, "Paul Beyer" wrote:
> Evening all,
>
> This is a quick email to say hello and introduce myself as a new member. My
> name is Paul, I live near Bristol and have just started gathering info on the
> Landcruiser as a possible purchase to tow my 23ft twin axle caravan. I used to
> own a Ford explorer but after 3 years of great motoring I got rid of it before
> it started to cost me big bucks in repair bills. I was looking to buy a
> Discovery but members of a kit car forum put me off that idea (based on owners
> experiences) and someone recommended I consider the Landcruiser - so here I
> am.
>
> I'm not sure of exact budget yet but was thinking of somewhere between =A38000 -
> =A310,000 so if anyone has any advice or information they would like to share
> please get in touch.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Paul
Welcome, Paul.
With your budget, you=B9d get a stunner of an 80 series, produced from =8C90 til
=8C97, then superceded by what=B9s generally known as the Amazon in the UK. The
Colorado or Prado was just on the change at the price point you mentioned.
The older cars have a reputation for cylinder head problems but the later
models (D4D motor) are very quick and so far seem OK.
There are others here who will be able to point you at resources that will
show you the different models.
And yes, it=B9s just a bit better than a Discovery.........
All the best,
Neill Watson
=8C97 80 series 4.5, standard for now.
 
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Welcome Paul

As I have also tried alternatives, I would like to welcome you on your
current ambition: The Toy line of vehicles also in my HO has something
others cannot supply, realiability above all...

I do not know the exact price level at your site, I'm from DK where prices
are a lot different than anywhere else...

If an 80 series is available I would take a look, do make sure the engine
bearings are replaced on recall if vehicle is within that line (would be at
that price, I guess..). A 90 series might be worth a look too, especially if
offroading is not such a great priority... a 60 series is getting a little
old and rusty but is rock solid although a lot less comfortable than the
later ones...

But it all comes up to preferences and requirements, of course...

Good luck with your search....

Regards.. Henrik
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Paul Beyer
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:28 PM
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] New member
Evening all,
This is a quick email to say hello and introduce myself as a new member. My
name is Paul, I live near Bristol and have just started gathering info on
the Landcruiser as a possible purchase to tow my 23ft twin axle caravan. I
used to own a Ford explorer but after 3 years of great motoring I got rid of
it before it started to cost me big bucks in repair bills. I was looking to
buy a Discovery but members of a kit car forum put me off that idea (based
on owners experiences) and someone recommended I consider the Landcruiser -
so here I am.
I'm not sure of exact budget yet but was thinking of somewhere between =A38000
- =A310,000 so if anyone has any advice or information they would like to
share please get in touch.
Many thanks,
Paul
-- European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List Further Info:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
 
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Paul, welcome.
You are certainly going the right way. You already have some good
advice and the 80/Amazon/100 is the one to go for, and I guess it
goes without saying that you should choose a diesel version - a
4.2litre 6 cylinder in several variants. You will find that the fuel
consumption is the same as the smaller engined Disco, and the oil
consumption far less ! (That's both the oil that is burned and the
oil that drips onto your drive!)
But where do you get one? Surprisingly I would not advise a Toy
dealer, they have sold very few of the 6 cylinder models and so they
spend very little on service training for their staff. Generally the
6 cylinder model owners tend to be enthusiasts and often know more
about the functions of their Toy than the dealers. People here like
Julian, Clive, Gareth, Craig and Roman have more knowledge between
them, and more importantly - experience - than most Toy dealers. So
this forum is your best resource. The best mechanics for them tend to
be small individual garages that 'know' Jap 4WD's, not the LR only
garages who at times have problems understanding the Japanese way of
building them. Some plant fitters and agricultural engineers are also
very good with spannering Toys too.
I would advise that buying a Jap import is the better route than a UK
supplied one, and they trade at a lower prices as their price is not
calculated as per the usual Glass's residual path. But there is
definitely no problem with an 'import' as many in the trade would
have you believe. This is a vehicle that even LR management admire
and allegedly based some design criteria on the last RR model to meet
the Toy 6 cylinder models.
To start your quest, have a day out and go to one trader that has the
best knowledge of the marque and always has a good stock of S/H 6
cylinder Toys. They used to be a Toy dealer and despite their
suburban location found an affinity with the 4WD models. They now
have another 4WD franchise but still major in the Toy, and their
salesmen and fitters probably have more knowledge than any official
Toy dealer in the UK.
You will see them advertise in the 4WD mags. Grosvenor Garage Ltd are
just off junction 11 on the M25. I think the web address is
www.GGG.co.uk or at least something similar. Don't be put off by
their adverts and website having trucks outside your price range.
Talk to them first, and when they know what you want and have some
indication of your intent, they have a reputation of magically
knowing where to find what you need. Though at your price level they
may not put a warranty on it understandably, or even just pass you on
to a trade contact.
Toy dealers are also largely useless for parts, that is in terms of
knowing and identifying (and stocking) what you want, because they
sell very few for the 6 cylinder models. Toy delivery to their
dealers ex Rotterdam though, is usually 2 days. But some OEM parts
are essential, especially specific bearings, and oil seals in engine
and transmission. This is where Toy quality shows in their attention
to design of components that take the extraordinary wear and tear of
4WD'ing. (Remember my remark about oil drips - or none in the case
of the Toy). Otherwise good quality 'will fit' spares are available
from several suppliers like Milner and Brum Motor Spares etc. at
discount prices. For well priced major spares purchases such as for
an engine rebuild, some of our friends here use a legendary Toy
specialist in Holland - Maarten Verschure at All American Imports
(no, don't ask, he's a Toy man through to his underpants).
I know of some people who have bought bargain imports at dockside
auctions, but they tend to be those who know exactly what they are
looking for and the foibles of the model they seek. Maybe not the
route for you just yet. (My brother-in-law has bought 7 4WD's for his
corporate team building cum 4WD training course from them).
When you come across a possible purchase just let us know and the
'committee' will give you an opinion. HTH.
Cheers
Jon
Tring,Herts
'92 HZJ80 ex UN Bosnia surplus
 
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Hi John,
Have you got an address or website for Brum Motor Spares please?
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "toyj80" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] New member
Otherwise good quality 'will fit' spares are available from several
suppliers like Milner and Brum Motor Spares etc. at discount prices. For
well priced major spares purchases such as for an engine rebuild, some of
our friends here use a legendary Toy specialist in Holland - Maarten
Verschure at All American Imports (no, don't ask, he's a Toy man through to
his underpants).
I know of some people who have bought bargain imports at dockside
auctions, but they tend to be those who know exactly what they are looking
for and the foibles of the model they seek. Maybe not the
 
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Paul,
I will not echo all that Jon has said but add a bit. I have an
imported 80 and you will have trouble finding one with 7 seats. Mine
has leather and aircon but only 5 seats. In Japan the 7 seat option is
very rare. Imports do come with lots of goodies. If you intend to
travel much with your vehicle then Toyota is definately the right
choice. They are the world leaders in 4x4's, apart from the UK where
there is a missguided patriotism for LR's. As Julianhas said on here
before you could almost take a new 80/100 out of the box and drive it
round the world.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Paul

<snip>

I would like as many bells and whistles as possible but it must have aircon, leather and 7 seats to accommodate the 4 kids and the missus.
</snip>

I too have 4x kids + a Missus. I don't know how big your kids are but if, like mine, they are teenager size then we have found that the 3rd row of seats in our 80 series TLC is simply too cramped for anything other than short journeys. The 100 series is a touch more spacious inside, but still not great.

Obviously not a problem if yours are still small, but I thought I'd just mention it. Also you need the sliding windows in the back for adequate ventilation of the 3rd row, and I've seen some imports that have fixed glass there. Another thing is that you don't get much internal luggage space with the 3rd row of seats in place.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting a TLC, and all my children love it, but just sharing my experience that - despite its external dimensions - it is emphatically *not* a spacious people carrier!

Jon mentioned Grosvenor Garage Guildford, and I got mine from there. They gave me two options: trade price "as seen", or an extra =A32k with all known problems sorted (I took the former and had to sort out an ABS problem). I would recommend them for their complete straightforwardness and honesty: they did an HPI check, drove it down to Devon for me to inspect or reject as I thought fit, and were good to deal with. Not the cheapest solution, but certainly a robust one and they knew their stuff.

Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1996 1HD-FT
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On 1/1/07 1:39 pm, "Christopher Bell" wrote:
gave
blems
id an
t
y a
As an ex-Toyota dealership sales manager many moons ago, I second that.
Grosvenor used to be the place that Toyota dealers rang for pricing.....
Sadly, Mark Mitchell, who used to be the driving force and main Landcruiser
expert, passed away suddenly last year. He was a good bloke.
All the best for '07
Neill Watson
 
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One word of advice on the seats, it is not easy fitting thied row
seats in to a vehicle that was built for Two rows.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Hi Paul,
Welcome to the list.
Just to summarise things, your best bet is to go for a UK spec 1995-
1998 80 series Landcruiser - this will be a manual, but you will get
the 7-8 seats, a VX model will give you the extra bells and whistles
you want and you have the added advantage of the later 24valve engine.
If you want an automatic, go for a pre 1995 UK spec model - the post
1995 UK models were all manual - again go for the VX model.
As the for the Jap imports, yes they do have slightly more electric
gizmos like folding in wing mirrors, but you won't get a 7-8 seater
model.
If you find a local car and want someone to look over it for you, I am
not that far away and happy to come down to look over a car for you.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Thanks again everyone for the information you have provided me.
It would seem that as I need 7/8 seats, and would like bells whistles
and leather (been spoiled by previous Ford Explorer ownership) my
vehicle of choice would be a UK 80 series possibly VX. I really don't
care if I end up with a manual or automatic and off roading is something
I would like to try but don't intend to do in anger so diff locks etc
would not make or break my decision. Having looked on autotrader, ebay
etc. I was surprised by how much prices vary on these vehicles. Most of
what is currently available is quite a distance from where I live so it
is difficult to get an understanding on what is well priced or
overpriced but I'm sure that will become clearer with time.
Is there anyone that could email me some half decent pictures of their
Landcruisers just to get an idea of what I would be looking for?
Cheers for now,
Paul
Live: Bristol
Work: Swindon
 
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Paul,
It is 7 seats with the 80, and the 100. The 8 seater is the
smaller Colorado, strange but true, I have had both. The number of
seat belts gives it away and I have never seen an 80 with 8.
Regards, Clive.
 
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Hi Clive,
Actually you do get 80s registered as 8 seaters - mine is and has three
belts on the 3rd row.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Paul,
Bearing in mind what you have said, go for a 95-98 VX UK spec, often
badged as the Amazon - that will give you the bells and whistles as well
as the leather etc.
I looked at a stack of these for someone a year ago and you were getting
?2k difference on exactly the same age/mileage vehicle - there is no set
rule for these things.
Give me a call some time and I can chat you through a number of pointers
on them as well as email over some picks.
Actually, if you can make it up here some time I can show you over mine
and give you pointers of what to look out for etc.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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My 80 series has 8 seats too. The central seat in the 2nd and 3rd rows
only has a lap belt though.
Christopher Bell
|
|Hi Clive,
|
|> It is 7 seats with the 80, and the 100. The 8 seater is the
|> smaller Colorado,
|
|Actually you do get 80s registered as 8 seaters - mine is and
|has three
|belts on the 3rd row.
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Paul

We have 19, 17 and 15 year old girls ... then (probably a similar
"don't ask") a boy of 9. The last one would have been happier with a
little brother or sister, but we couldn't cope with 5 either physically
or financially!

As for towing: that's why I got mine. The eldest three all had
horses/ponies so we got a three horse trailer, which is 2.6 tons laden.
No problems towing that, and it has coped quite happily with heavier
loads too although it doesn't much like it. With the standard
diff-locks all round it has hauled other 4x4s and lorries out of muddy
fields on several occasions; and with a vehicle weight of 2.3 tons
unladen you don't get any "tail wagging the dog" control problems.

Julian's advice about age, engine and transmission is sound. I wanted a
manual gearbox, so I was quite happy to get a 1996 24 valve machine.
However it can be a mite frustrating when towing as you have to drop two
gears to tackle hills because the 24 valve motor in its standard form is
notoriously lacking in low end grunt when the turbo isn't blowing.
Engine braking going downhill is good though, which can be a major
consideration when towing in the more 3D parts of Devon.

The manual gearbox is notoriously clunky, especially when cold, and if
it has been smashed into gear when young it can be a candidate for an
early rebuild. If you go for one make sure you are happy with the
change up into and especially down into 2nd gear: it will be very baulky
when cold, but should ease up after a mile or so although it never
becomes good by modern standards. If I drove a lot in urban stop-start
traffic I think I would start pining for an auto box.

With totally standard tyres, transmission, etc I get typically 29 mpg in
summer and 27 mpg in winter; and it drops to an estimated 20 - 22 mpg
when towing horses around. Oil consumption is zero. The 1995 & earlier
auto box + 12 valve engine variant seems to give about 3 mpg less, but
how much of that is auto box and how much the engine is hard to tell. If
you can run to a 100 series machine, which is the newer body shape,
Toyota added an intercooler and electrically controlled fuel injection
pump to the 24 valve motor which gives about another 30 bhp with,
apparently, no loss in fuel economy - I would have got that for the
extra power and space if I had had the money.

The diesel engine codes, all 6 cylinder 4.2 litre, are:

1HD-T 12 valve, 1995 and earlier, nominally 165 bhp
1HD-FT 24 valve, roughly 1995 to 1997, nominally 168 bhp, manual
gearbox only in the UK.
1HD-FTE 24 valve with electrically controlled injection pump and
intercooler, nominally ~200 bhp, in 100 series (new body shape) from
late 1997 onwards.


You asked about spec. I don't have any photos, and mine has seat covers
anyway, but you definitely want the "VX" trim version as sold in the UK
which has
* leather seats all round, front ones heated and electrically
adjustable
* 2nd row seats split 50/50, with central retractable armrests.
Seats can be individually tilted forward to make space or get into 3rd
row.
* 3rd row seats also split 50/50, and can be tilted up
individually when not in use. (No head restraints on 3rd row seats
though)
* electric tilt and slide sun-roof
* electrically adjustable (but sadly not heated) door mirrors
* air-conditioning and climate control
* reasonably convincing synthetic wood trim to dash and doors
* rear heater (blows air at the middle row passengers' feet)
* sort sort of radio + cassette with speakers front and back &
electric aerial (almost certainly broken off!)
* cruise control
* ABS
* metallic paint
.=2E. and probably a few other bells and whistles, but the above are the
main ones. It's a comfortable machine although it is not that quiet by
modern standards.


Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Christopher Bell
________________________________
=09
Hi Christopher,
=09
My kids were made in two batches so we have ended up with an 18
and 17 year old then a gap of 10 years (don't ask) so I also have a 6
and 7 year old as well. The third row seats would be used on the
occasions that we were all out together so they would be fine for the
little ones. As far as luggage capacity is concerned even the purpose
built people carriers suffer in that department and the main reason for
wanting a Landcruiser is to tow my twin axle caravan and apparently the
Landcruiser is not too shabby in that department.
=09
Paul
=09
=09
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Hi,
Just to add to Chris's excellent comments:
Firstly on the low end power of the 24valve engine - this was detuned
at low revs for emissions reasons, there are some tweaks that can be
done to the fuel injection pump to bring this up to acceptable levels
and if you want to increase pulling power further the engine is calling
out for having an intercooler kit installed - budget for around ?1k to
get one fitted, although you should be able to get one for a bit less.
And a minor point about the headrests on the 3rd row of seats - I have
two headrests on the 2nd and 3rd rows, so they are available ;-)
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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