New Toy [Warning: Pic Heavy]

[stuzbot]

CAUTION: VIEWERS OF A NERVOUS DISPOSITION MAY WANT TO LOOK AWAY NOW

Well, there I was, innocently thumb-twiddling my way around Amazon the other day, when I noticed they had some of their special 'One Day Deals' on a couple of those wee WiFi Endoscope camera gadgets. So, impetuous devil that I am [plus the fact Prime got me by the nether regions by saying "Order within the next 2 hours 11 minutes for delivery today" ] I bought one. Justifying it to myself that I'd be able to use it to see where a leak in our spare bedroom ceiling is coming from and --even better!-- to take a peek inside the nether regions of my Land Cruiser and see if they really do "rot from the inside out".

So here we go [sorry if the orientation is wrong on some of them. It's pretty impossible to tell which way is up, with the camera out of sight and no reference points]....

First a couple of shots of the inside of the chassis rail towards the front of the vehicle. Not half bad, if I say so myself:

Now on towards the middle of the chassis rail. And the first signs of rust starting to appear. Although still nothing to write home in dismay about:

And now the bit all you horror fans have been waiting for. Time to cower behind the sofa as we explore 'The Rear of the Chassis Rail'!

I think this we can call the 'Transition Zone':

Oh, the humanity!

On the left you can see the bit where I knocked some rot out, while wrestling with the LSV:

ie: those last two pics were inside this section:

The only fresh looking bit of metal in the whole area. The end of the screw holding the LSV bracket on, which I'd cleaned up and treated to a coating of copper slip:

After this horror show, it was onto the sills. Which also have a couple of rotted patches where I was able to poke a hole through. The sills are a similar story to the chassis rail, only in a much smaller area. Some patches are almost corrosion free and then, right next to those, will be an area so rotten you can stick your finger through it.

Some nice rotted bits...

And then, just next to them, some areas with only a wee bit of surface rust:

Thankfully, it wasn't all doom and gloom. I had a hoke up inside the axle towers [or hangers, whatever you call them] , which is another notorious rot spot on these and was pleasantly surprised to find that they were [at least in comparison with the chassis rail further back] almost mint:

And, just to round off my exploration, a couple of snaps of the top of the fuel tank where the plumbing is. I was actually surprised to see hardly any sign of rust there at all, as I'd thought that was bound to be a moisture trap:

Well, there you go folks. The moral of this story is 'Be careful what you impulse purchase off the intarwebs'.

But remember. As they say at the end of Crimewatch: Don't have nightmares!'

 

[AdventureWagon]

Looks like a good gadget but I'm sorry your truck has this. Is this on the sills on the body I assume? If so it shouldn't be too structural am I right?

 

[stuzbot]

Yes. It's a shame. If I was salvaging any positives from it; all the rot I've found so far is on the chassis rails further back than the rear axle. So less of an 'immediate structural danger' than it might otherwise be. I think I concentrated so much on poking round the rear axle and hangers / towers, when looking over the back of the truck pre-purchase, that I didn't probe much further back than that. Lesson learned for next time.

As regards the sills; I wouldn't think they should be an MOT failure, because they're not in a structural area. But I'm pretty sure that, when checking the MOT History of some I was interested in, I did see failures for corrosion on the sills. So, I reckon it would be one of those areas where you're at the mercy of the whims of the MOT tester. I remember once I had an Isuzu Trooper which failed on corrosion within 30 cm of a seatbelt mounting --even though the corrosion was on a body panel and the seatbelt mounting was attached to the chassis which, like on the Land Cruisers, was a separate ladder chassis.

The metal [or what's left of it] on the sills of most of these must be as thin as tinfoil by now --even on the non-rotted parts. So I'd be minded just to grind it all down to bare metal and then form a new skin over it with fibreglass, rather than embark on the nightmare of trying to cut out and replace such a flimsy panel.

 

[AdventureWagon]

I remember in the UK the MOT was always one of those anxiety inducing times when you were just waiting for that phone call! And back then we just had a Vauxhall Corsa!

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Thats just what you want to turn up with when viewing a Cruiser or the like. I'll bet the vast majority of Collies, and 120's too wouldn't stand scrutiny with one of those endegadget things.
There's no wonder Josh's dad completely rebuilt the rear half of his Collie Chassis. I guess the only way to get a solid Collie is to import one from warmer Climes.

 

[Tractionman]

Really sorry that you are going through more s*"t Stuz, after coming to terms with front end then lsv. Heart sinking moments, to discover hidden rot that previously looked ok. I know from my own experience with a 120. Good luck mate.

 

[Grimbo]

That all looks like steel that was already oxidizing before it became a Landcruiser......
It seems that Toyota didn't spec new virgin steel ...... can't see any other reason for rot to start in some of those areas ...they also seem to be cutting back with each new model on rust proofing .... I've seen brand new 79 series with rust starting on chassis and axles etc from poor paint coverage.... vehicles not destined for our salt laden roads admittedly but still poor finish

 

[stuzbot]

Yep. A shame. But I think it's better to know the worst and treat the motor accordingly. Rather than invest a shed-load of money in buying fancy accessories for it and then find it needs lots of structural repairs, just to keep it on the road.

Its incredible the difference between front and rear of the chassis though. Even more dramatic on the inside. It was practically unmarked by corrosion until just before the rear axle. Then a few specks of rust appear and, by the time, I get to about level with the fuel tank, is like a wafer biscuit. Hard to believe it's the same stretch of metal.

Thats just what you want to turn up with when viewing a Cruiser or the like....

I'll definitely be taking it along, next time I go to view a vehicle. Just a pity I didn't have it 4 months ago.

 

[Higgy]

The images remind me of someone finding an Old Long lost under the sea Wreck... "We Found it, We Found it."!!!!.... Sorry Stuz....

 

[Lancashire Cruiser]

Given that these seem to rot like Land Rovers, Is there no one supplying rear chassis sections for these like they do for Discovery 2 and Defenders?

 

[BobMurphy]

Funnily enough, I recently bought an Endoscope as well - to look inside a Landrover TD200 motor that's seized !

The sills rotted on my '90' - and they aren't simple things to replace if you buy the Toyota panels:

They incorporate three body mounts !

There are a lot of spot welds to drill out:

But then . . I didn't need an Endoscope .

Hopefully you won't need to go to these lengths .

Bob.

 

[stuzbot]

Given that these seem to rot like Land Rovers, Is there no one supplying rear chassis sections for these like they do for Discovery 2 and Defenders?

You'd definitely think there'd be a market for replacement chassis. It's been a l-o-o-o-n-g time since I owned a Land Rover. But I seem to remember that a complete galvanised chassis could be had for a fairly reasonable sum.

EDIT: Found some Land Rover ones: Land Rover Defender & Series Galvanised Chassis 5-Yr Warranty - [Leaving Land Cruiser Club]

I think something along those lines would be a pretty reasonable outlay, to effectively get you back to having a mint chassis under your truck, that you could then rust proof and maintain properly. If such a thing did exist for Land Cruisers, I wonder how much work is actually involved in swapping the body onto a new chassis. It's not a huge job on an old Series Land Rover [relatively speaking] as most of the body panels unbolt. So you can kind of dismantle it and move it bit by bit to the new chassis. I'd imagine the Land Cruiser would involve more of an effort as [I think] most of the body is in one piece.

But then . . I didn't need an Endoscope

Eek! --Mine are nowhere near that bad. I'm hoping I can get away with re-skinning them with fibreglass, if there's enough non-rotted metal left to support that.

They incorporate three body mounts !

On most of the ones I've seen with corrosion on the sills [yours being a notable exception!] It's the lower ribbed section underneath which rots out. Not the area where the body mounts attach. Makes sense, as that's where any moisture would pool. So, chances are the body mounts would be OK.

Although your friendly neighbourhood MOT tester may beg to differ.

 

[Towpack]

The market for replacement LR chassis' will be huge compared to the demand for LC's which probably explains the unavailability problem.

 

[Towpack]

.. I've seen brand new 79 series with rust starting on chassis and axles etc from poor paint coverage.... vehicles not destined for our salt laden roads admittedly but still poor finish

That's a real kick in the teeth for Toyota quality control. It's ridiculous and inexcusable IMO, no matter what market they're destined for.

 

[Towpack]

The whole rust problem on some relatively modern vehicles is the sort of thing you expected back in the 70's. My Dad had a few new and newish cars back in the day and they were naked underneath. I remember a guy from work buying a brand new Cavalier and driving it straight round to a local rustproofing specialist for treatment and his subsequent dismay when he drove it across a grass covered field, through numerous fresh cow pats, to a fishing venue on the river Trent and the cow shite washed the new underseal off! Needless to say he wasn't impressed but everyone else thought it was hilarious.

 

[Higgy]

My most Favourite River in the World The River Trent,... Spent Years Pumping Millions of Gallons of water from that River, Irrigating Potatoes .... Ah the memory's... (Sorry Back to Rotting Land Cruiser's)

 

[stuzbot]

The market for replacement LR chassis' will be huge compared to the demand for LC's which probably explains the unavailability problem.

True. But the market for replacement Land Cruiser chassis must be fairly big [and growing], given how endemic this rear body corrosion seems to be. And I'm sure there must be quite a lot of folks out there who'd be willing to fork out a couple of grand to save an otherwise perfectly serviceable vehicle --especially as the money being asked for rot free ones is going through the roof.

I wonder how much time and effort it would take for one of these aftermarket Land Rover chassis manufacturers to diversify into Land Cruiser ones too? At the end of the day, a ladder chassis is not a hugely complicated structure. There must be plenty of metalworking business who could turn these out, without too much difficulty, if required.

Now there's an idea for the ultimate 'Forum Group Buy'!

 

[stuzbot]

But then . . I didn't need an Endoscope .


View attachment 176022

I just grabbed a couple of snaps of my sills [this is like a reverse pissing contest!]. I thought they looked bad until I saw the pictures of yours. So cheers for lifting my spirits!

 

[Higgy]

What we need is a group campaigning to the Government..... To stop Salting the roads, When i lived in Danmark i went to work every day in winter in my old Saab 99, It was normally -12 and Snowing..... And in 6yrs never saw a single Gritting Truck...

 

[Towpack]

Road salt stops working below about -10deg C which must be why countries with really cold Winters don't use it.
Unfortunately the mixed weather we get in the UK makes road salt an ideal solution to intermittent snow fall and icy roads.