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Notchy / sticky gear change in manual gearbox

Rob

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My gearbox suffers from rather sticky gear change especially 2nd. I was recommended to use Toyotas universal synthetic 75w 90 gear oil which came to £10 a litre. So yesterday i dropped the oil and there wasn't much change in the behaviour on the gearbox. I then decided to change the clutch fluid as the clutch pedal felt a bit odd and now the clutch feels better but i still have sticky gear change.

When speaking to opie oils about this issue they said that the Toyota 'sythetic' is just a mineral oil with some additives did not recommend using it. They did however recommend using commercial truck gear oil as the oil is quite different and the gearbox is essentialy a light truck gearbox. Also 1st gear pops out during slow downhill deceleration in hi and lo. I also have the jerky clutch problem when the clutch gets hot. Has anyone managed to solve the sticky gearchange by changing the oil? Is my gearbox due for a rebuild or new clutch?
 

Mark Whiteside

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does sound like you have a gearbox fault which ever use you use
it should not jump out of gear
when i used to work at the merc hgv garage on some vans and hgvs we used to fill the
gearboxes with engine oil to solve sticky gear changes
i dont know if the lc gearbox would suffer any other defeats by doing this
someone may be able to add some light to this
 

Rob

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Just an update, the gearbox feels much better when warn than before the oil change. Seems the toyota oil does work but it needs to be warm.
 

adrianr

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Hope you get to the bottom of it. Mines very stiff esp into 2nd when cold . when we had that really cold weather at the start of the year if i missed getting 1st to 2nd just right i'd have to double d clutch and if that failed stop and start over.

Once warm it's like a hot knife through butter.
 

Jon Wildsmith

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Make sure you talk to Ian before you have your box reconditioned if you go that route, he might have some advice about where not to go !
 

Lorin

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I've got same problem. Second gear is difficult to engage on the upshift and crunches, also pops out of second gear on over-run. I changed the oil for Toyota fully synthetic and whilst not making much difference when cold, once warm it is significantly better when engaging the gear. Still drops out of gear though so I'd be interested to hear about cost etc if anyone goes the rebuild route...
 
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Rob

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Thanks Jon will do that as a last resort.

I have been looking through the FSM and under Hard to shift or will not shift it lists the following:

Clutch pedal freeplay excessive : Adjust pedal freeplay
Clutch booster faulty : Inspect clutch booster
Clutch release cylinder faulty : Repair release cylinder
Clutch master cylinder faulty : Repair master cylinder
Clutch disc out of true, lining greasy or broken : Inspect clutch disc
Splines on input shaft or clutch disc dirty or burred : Repair as necessary
Clutch pressure plate faulty : Replace pressure plate

Under jumps out of gear it just says that the pilot bearing is worn and it needs replacement (input shaft bearing).

I will start with the pedal freeplay and then the only thing that can be checked are the cylinders as i don't have a booster. I am unsure as to how to check them without rebuilding them. Almost all the internal parts are non-reusable parts in both so by inspecting them you are forced to rebuild them. Has anyone done this? Is there a way to inspect them without rebuilding? Looking at ToyoDIY the prices are not that bad for the rebuild kits €22.79 salve (PN 04313-60110) and €28.90 for the master (PN 04311-60100 its difficult to tell if it comes with more than just the piston as in the picture) so it may be worth a try.

On the other hand i know i need to replace the pilot bearing so the box needs to come out anyway, this will give me chance to inspect the clutch assembly and see what needs replacing. The bearing is €32 on ToyoDIY (PN 90363-15017) so its cheap and probably will be much cheaper if i go with Ian Rubie. It seems that i will go down this route but not in the near future due to lack of time. Wuoud still like to know if anyone has rebuilt the cylinders and what effect, if any, they have had.
 

Rob

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Have just done some furthur reading and in the manual transmission section of the FSM it states that the transmission is faulty under jumps out of gear and disassemble and inspect the transmission is the cure :(
 

Lorin

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Reckon I'll just have to hang on to the gear stick for a while :(
 

Ian Rubie

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Good luck if you go for the rebuild route!

I tried a place in Salisbury called Gearlink. Over the space of a year they had it back 5 or 6 times for various problems. In the end I just gave up and got a box off Stef for well under half the price I paid to get my original one reconditioned. Been fine since.

Ian
 

x_shaun

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a bloke i work with rebuilt one when he was on toyotas he said its the hardest box he has rebuilt
 

Rob

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Ian how bad was yours before you decided to get it rebuilt?
 

Ian Rubie

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Gavlad said:
Are you a salesman Ian??? What a punt for those boys ;) :lol:

What can I say, they were rubbish when it came to my box. In the end I just could not be bothered to keep taking it back. Only reporting my experience, they might well be fine with a different one.

Rob said:
Ian how bad was yours before you decided to get it rebuilt?

It was jumping out of 1st and was next to impossible to get 2nd when cold.

Ian
 

V 8

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I have the same issue with mine when really cold, when I double d clutch its perfect. Its perfect now though since the bad weather has gone by.
 

Rob

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Looks like i will have to live with the poor 2nd gear cold syncromesh, £790 + VAT for a strip to diagnose!!! Then come the parts but the rebuild is included in the £790. As for the first gear jumping out of gear, well i could just hold it in place :mrgreen:

Might take the gearbox out and look at the clutch before i set off to Mongolia, depends on the time...
 

Ian Rubie

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Rob said:
As for the first gear jumping out of gear, well i could just hold it in place

With the sort of things I do in the green car jumping out of first could be very nasty. Think very steep descents with trees, rocks etc etc.

Ian
 

Rob

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Ian Rubie said:
Rob said:
As for the first gear jumping out of gear, well i could just hold it in place

With the sort of things I do in the green car jumping out of first could be very nasty. Think very steep descents with trees, rocks etc etc.

Ian
I know what you mean, on my first lincomb farm visit (and first time off road) i had a very nasty scare when it jumped out on one of the very steep descents :shock:. Seeing as i am not as adventurous as you are in the green car holding it in place should work for now.
 

Dave 2000

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The gearboxes are a little temperamental when cold even when new, mine has a lazy synchro on 2nd with the change down from third, there is also the slightest whirring noise in all gears but you have to listen for it. Double de clutching will get you a smoother gearchange for now. Re the oils first I would not put engine oil in the gearbox, whilst it worked fine for straight cut gears (think old mini/austins that whined their way down the road) heavier vehicles with bevel cut gears should use a hypoid oil, of note is that in colder climes Toyota advise to use a 75/80 oil instead of the normal EP 90 that most garages want to put in.
You are IMHO better off using a non synthetic, I (and friends) use a typical EP 90 here in spain but it is hot here so in the UK perhaps a 75/80? OTOH if you are travelling somewhere hot then go straight to the 90. Putting fresh 90 (non synthetic) in mine had reduced the 'whirr' to being virtualy inaudible but I do not think it has helped the second gear change, having said that it has only just been done so time will tell.

Jumping out of gear may be the pilot but TBH if that was the case it would happen in the first four gears (5th IIRC runs on a different shaft) so more likely is a broken detent spring on the selector shaft, either way the gearbox has to come out.

I was told by a Toyota dealer that the vehicles from the factory fitted with a clutch booster had a heavier duty pessure plate although the rest of the clutch is the same as non boosted versions. If a car without a booster was fitted with the heavier pressure plate using the clutch properly i.e. pushing it down far enough to clear when changing gear ect is difficult so more often than not the gears or rather the synchromesh took the workload and this leads to the earlier demise of the gearbox internals and again a rebuild is needed.

regards

Dave
 
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