Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4

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The head has been pressure tested again just for my own piece of mind. It's
flat and crackless. The garage says it must be a crack in the block.

I have had no success at all in locating a replacement engine so I'm looking
into other repair methods. It'll cost me =A3550 to have the block stripped and
tested so I'm lothe to do this if the engine is then scrap anyway but if
there's a chance of repairing it then I'll do it.

Does anyone here have any experience or opions on block repairs by either
welding or "stitching"? I've been given conflicting views from "if we can
get to the crack we can weld it and it'll be fine" to "don't bother welding,
the heat will simply crack or distort the block somewhere else". Stitching
is heat free and seems a good idea but I can't see how it can provide a
repair good enough to withstand the pressure inside the block.

Any opinions anybody?

Pete
 
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No-one has any views to offer then I take it?
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 08 July 2007 17:07
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
The head has been pressure tested again just for my own piece of mind. It's
flat and crackless. The garage says it must be a crack in the block.

I have had no success at all in locating a replacement engine so I'm looking
into other repair methods. It'll cost me =A3550 to have the block stripped and
tested so I'm lothe to do this if the engine is then scrap anyway but if
there's a chance of repairing it then I'll do it.

Does anyone here have any experience or opions on block repairs by either
welding or "stitching"? I've been given conflicting views from "if we can
get to the crack we can weld it and it'll be fine" to "don't bother welding,
the heat will simply crack or distort the block somewhere else". Stitching
is heat free and seems a good idea but I can't see how it can provide a
repair good enough to withstand the pressure inside the block.

Any opinions anybody?

Pete
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Yep I have one
Should have gone to spec savers
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 09 July 2007 15:30
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
No-one has any views to offer then I take it?
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On
Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 08 July 2007 17:07
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
The head has been pressure tested again just for my own piece of mind.
It's
flat and crackless. The garage says it must be a crack in the block.

I have had no success at all in locating a replacement engine so I'm
looking
into other repair methods. It'll cost me =A3550 to have the block stripped
and
tested so I'm lothe to do this if the engine is then scrap anyway but if
there's a chance of repairing it then I'll do it.

Does anyone here have any experience or opions on block repairs by
either
welding or "stitching"? I've been given conflicting views from "if we
can
get to the crack we can weld it and it'll be fine" to "don't bother
welding,
the heat will simply crack or distort the block somewhere else".
Stitching
is heat free and seems a good idea but I can't see how it can provide a
repair good enough to withstand the pressure inside the block.

Any opinions anybody?

Pete
--
European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List Further Info:
http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
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15:26
 
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Pete
There's got to be a second hand engine out there somewhere.
Have you registered with WWW.findapart.co.uk?
I'll ask a few Irish wrecker yards - you never know
Niall
 
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I have registered with every secondhand parts outfit I can find, including
findapart - nothing! Plenty of chuffing diesels but no petrols!
Please ask around by all means.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Niall Somers
Sent: 09 July 2007 15:31
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
Pete
There's got to be a second hand engine out there somewhere.
Have you registered with WWW.findapart.co.uk?
I'll ask a few Irish wrecker yards - you never know
 
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I've now spoken to 7 specialist repairers / engine rebuilders and the score
so far is:
A block repair will be fine, 6 - A block repair will be crap, 1
Although with the proviso that as we don't yet know whee the crack is or how
bad it is it may not be possible to repair it at all.
It's a funny thing, if the answers had been unanimous then I'd go for it but
that one against (a respected local engine rebuilder) gives me too much
doubt.
Hey ho.
I still don't see how I can not have noticed the alleged crack before if
it's that bad...????
I think my preferred option is to get a secondhand engine, get that fitted,
then strip down the original and get the block tested. Then we'll see.
Pete
 
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I thought it was steam engines that chuffed, not diesels!
TTFN
Chas
London UK '94 1HDT 80 Auto, 109000 miles Safari snorkel, Custom Winch bumper
+ winch, and Rear bumper with spare wheel carrier
+ Ray Dadd Rocksliders
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
Plenty of chuffing diesels but no petrols!
 
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Peter's chuf chuf is a Modern day classic of steam and eco frendlyisum
ish.
Plus I bet if you look up the locomotion act 1810 I bet it has a sub
section to allow peter's chuff chuff passage on any right of way.
Subject to it not breaking down and blocking the highway of course ;-)
Don't worry peter & cheer up you get it sorted, it's only a car
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Chas
Sent: 09 July 2007 18:37
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
I thought it was steam engines that chuffed, not diesels!
TTFN
Chas
London UK '94 1HDT 80 Auto, 109000 miles Safari snorkel, Custom Winch
bumper
+ winch, and Rear bumper with spare wheel carrier
+ Ray Dadd Rocksliders
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
Plenty of chuffing diesels but no petrols!
 
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I'm still not convinced it has a cracked block.
But Ray, I'm not worried, neither am I uncheerful! I'm simply a little
hacked off that I can't make a decision through lack of appropriate
information; mind you that never stopped Tony bLiar going to war did it?
No, in reality I've had six totally trouble free years with this Cruiser and
it's been used pretty hard. Before it bacame a true off-roader it did many
thousands of miles around Europe as a family holiday bus, it spent many
weekends lugging big heavy trailers carrying bobtailed Range Rovers, full
size Range Rovers Jeep Wranglers and Suzuki SJ's + loads of recovery kit,
fuel and spares around all over the place to off-road trials events. It then
spent a good 18 months being abused for laning. It took all of this with
nothing but routine servicing. It's never had to have any parts or work
whatsoever to pass any MOT in my posession.
No, I know this is a big failure but divided into six+ years of useful work
and fun it's not that bad.
It WILL live again!!!!!!!
Pete
 
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That's the spirit Peter.
Chas
(The chip van man from the Gap)
 
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Thanks Chas.
I think you took the matter of your flooded cruiser at Tallybont with
applomb. Me, I'd have been in tears!
I just need to find a bloomin' engine! They're like rocking horse poo.
Pete
PS
What is the definitive answer? Is the Gap still driveable or NERC'd
 
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Hi Guys
It was only a matter of time before my curiosity got the better of me and
that means asking questions unfortunetly.
Can someone explain what stitching an engine is and what is involved and how
does this differ to welding.
Can an engine be welded and be fine.
What would cause a crack to appear in an engine block and where are the most
likely places and why.
How thick is a block and if it is stitched or welded does this close the
crack completly.
Is welding or stitching work on a block carried out on the outside of the
engine block or does the engine need to be stripped down.
If it is repaired how can you tell if bits of the weld or stitching have not
got into the engine if of course the work is indeed carried out from the
outside with no visable way to see inside.
Any more info would be great.
thnaks
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:39 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
 
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Hi John
How is your Cruiser getting on?
I can tell you what I've learned so far:
I didn't think engine blocks could be welded but apparently they can as long
as the welding gubbins can physically get to the cracked area. Obviously
welding produces a LOT of localised heat so it has to be done with great
care and the block will need machining afterwards to remove any distortion
caused by the heat. A local engine recon company says that the cost varies
according to the size of the crack and the ease of getting to it - anywhere
between =A350 and =A3250. The engine has to be stripped down to a bare block.
Stitching OTOH does not involve the use of heat at all and when I first
discovered it I thought "that can't possibly work". A hole is drilled at
each end of the crack to stop it propogating and then a series of holes are
drilled down each side of the crack. Pins are then inserted into these holes
which are then cut off and peined over to seal the crack. Because there is
no heat applied then there is no distortion and no risk of further cracking.
No, I don't understand it either!!! See here for an explanation:
http://www.castingrepairs.com/index.html
If they can get to the crack (say it's external) then the engine does not
need to be stripped in order to be stitched.
There are various reasons for cracking of engine blocks, usually extreme
overheating or getting it hot and then adding cold coolant thus
shock-cracking it just like pouring very hot water into a cold glass.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of john byrne
Sent: 10 July 2007 08:10
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
Hi Guys
It was only a matter of time before my curiosity got the better of me and
that means asking questions unfortunetly.
Can someone explain what stitching an engine is and what is involved and how
does this differ to welding.
Can an engine be welded and be fine.
What would cause a crack to appear in an engine block and where are the most
likely places and why.
How thick is a block and if it is stitched or welded does this close the
crack completly.
Is welding or stitching work on a block carried out on the outside of the
engine block or does the engine need to be stripped down.
If it is repaired how can you tell if bits of the weld or stitching have not
got into the engine if of course the work is indeed carried out from the
outside with no visable way to see inside.
Any more info would be great.
thnaks
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT
 
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Hey Pete
Thanks for the info and sorry to hear you are still up the creek without the
paddle.
It's great to hear that you had at least 6 years of using the cruiser and
using it well without misshap.
Unlike my piece of crap which has never stopped asking for money from me.
Last hiccup was the UJ's so I had all four replaced, just for piece of mind.
The vibrations from the injector pump or what ever are still there but I
think I have decided to live with them rather than spent any more money on
the issue.
My brakes are still lumpy but again I may live with it because I cant strip
the discs off the wheels and Im not paying to have it done, then Id have to
get them all skimmed.
You know the story get the front two skimmed and it will be the back ones,
get the back shimmed and it will be the front ones.
My windows are a pain in the arse in this weather so damp and wet.
And of course all my info is gone on cruisers and all the help I received
from the ELCO list is now a distant memory.
But on a plus side dare I say it the engine is using a lot less oil which is
great.
O maybe I shouldn't have said anything.
John 92HDJ 80 1HDT wet and windy in Ireland
 
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! Errr... No! Sorry, I only laugh
because I did briefly think of this but with my level of mechanical
expertise I'd end up with the whole truck bursting into flames.
I don't know it's something I'd even like to attempt to be honest; it would
probably be a full replacement of Electrics, ECU (s), fuel system and a
whole load of other stuff that I haven't even contemplated. Has it ever been
done? Probably I s'pose but I've never come across it. But then I've never
looked.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Jon Wildsmith
Sent: 10 July 2007 15:01
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
Have you costed converting to a diesel?
Jon.
--
 
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On 9 Jul 2007, at 15:30, Peter Browning wrote:
My only view is you've been bloody unlucky!
One silver lining for your cloud is that if you can find an engine.
at least you have a good cylinder head to sell on Ebay - I bet those
aren't cheap.
For a 4.5 petrol, you may need to look outside of the UK, perhaps
Holland, Germany or even North America? At $2 to the pound, it might
be worth a thought. I dip into a 3FE North American list sometimes, I
can ask there if you like.
Best regards
Neill Watson
 
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If you would please Niall.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Neill Watson
Sent: 11 July 2007 21:23
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Peter's Engine Woes, Part 4
I dip into a 3FE North American list sometimes, I can ask there if you
like.
 
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Suggesting the ih8mud.com forum as well. Biggest in the world afaik.
Ugo
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:46:20 +0200, Peter Browning
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
--
Ugo Hu, Oslo, Norway
HDJ100, Auto, AHC, 2001; ex HZJ80
 
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Anyone with views?
I have a rusty old 2F (4.2, carb - no ECU problems) you could fit!
No.. thought not.
I have seen a metal casting that had been "stitched", it was part of a
machine tool and I still can't get my head around how it works - perhaps you
have to see it done. Anyway I don=92t see it as a likely solution for you if
your block is cracked. I did a search and found quite a few references to
stitch repairs on engines, most were related to frost damage ie outer skin,
if the coolant is being pressurised then surely the crack is internal and a
stitch repair is not feasible. Engine repairs described also seem to be in
low stress applications, big old low revving engines, steam, etc.
Welded repairs on cast blocks are tricky at the best and if the failure is
in a cylinder bore I can't see the repair being economic or effective.
People generally expect pressures inside an engine to be huge but they are
not in normal running, pre-ignition and detonation are another thing
altogether and even if a repair was OK for normal running it would probably
fail before the knock sensor could act. The pinking / knocking noise you
hear on detonation is actually the block "ringing".
A modern engine has a very refined level of design - lots of components need
more than just strength built into their design if they are provide the kind
of life we expect. If your block has developed a crack on, say no 5
cylinder, because the casting was a little off centre and the wall is too
thin on one side (and too thick on the other, perhaps the uneven thickness
caused the fault), the same fault might be present on the other cylinders,
if you fix 5 then the stiffer block section at 5 might cause 4 to fail next.
I would;
a) try to find exactly were / or what the problem is, I know the engine is
in bits but is you want to do a leakdown test all that needs be fitted is
the head with valves - no valve gear, manifolds, pumps, etc.
b) keep looking for a replacement engine - perhaps spread the net wider -
one of the listers on the LCML is based in Japan and works for a 4x4
aftermarket specialist, if you give me your LC & engine details I think he
would be able to help.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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14:21
 
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