Protest drive

G

Guest

Guest
You all know about the NERC Act and the fact that 60% of all our "green
lanes" have been closed in England and are about to be shut down in Wales,
right? This all happened for no reason other than pure spite and
misinformation.
Well Sunday 15th October is the very last day that the Gap Road (between
Brecon and Pontsticill) will be open to drive in a 4x4 - ever! It has
occurred to some that a final protest drive would be a) fun and b) leave us
with the feeling that at the least we made our feelings known. If you've not
driven the Gap then you don't know what you've missed and this is your last
chance to experience it, it really has some seriously stunning views.
There's also lot of other nice lanes in the area to be driven if you would
like to.
The Gap is non-damaging, the only tricky bits being the Tor Glass
"staircase" and the blown bridge at the Pontsticill end; a standard LC with
good AT's or MT's will probably be OK. I can point you in the direction of a
short video of my LC ascending the staircase if you'd like to judge for
yourselves. Oh to hell with it! - the video is here (sorry about the sound
- it was VERY windy):
http://www.worcester-networks.com/PeteGap.MOV
The question is - is anyone interested in joining in.
This is not a definite trip at the mo, just a (rather late) idea so you
would not be committing yourself.
Thanks.
Pete
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Pete,
I'd be interested, it'll be better than the French Riviera, how about you Renate you're not far away? Have you got a meeting up place in mind? I'll be coming up the M4, where are you?
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Browning
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:36 PM
Subject: [ELCO] Protest drive
You all know about the NERC Act and the fact that 60% of all our "green lanes" have been closed in England and are about to be shut down in Wales, right? This all happened for no reason other than pure spite and misinformation.

Well Sunday 15th October is the very last day that the Gap Road (between Brecon and Pontsticill) will be open to drive in a 4x4 - ever! It has occurred to some that a final protest drive would be a) fun and b) leave us with the feeling that at the least we made our feelings known. If you've not driven the Gap then you don't know what you've missed and this is your last chance to experience it, it really has some seriously stunning views. There's also lot of other nice lanes in the area to be driven if you would like to.

The Gap is non-damaging, the only tricky bits being the Tor Glass "staircase" and the blown bridge at the Pontsticill end; a standard LC with good AT's or MT's will probably be OK. I can point you in the direction of a short video of my LC ascending the staircase if you'd like to judge for yourselves. Oh to hell with it! - the video is here (sorry about the sound - it was VERY windy):

http://www.worcester-networks.com/PeteGap.MOV

The question is - is anyone interested in joining in.

This is not a definite trip at the mo, just a (rather late) idea so you would not be committing yourself.

Thanks.

Pete
 
G

Guest

Guest
Chas, Pete et al
I'd love to go to Brecon and do spot of off-roading but have still a gearbox
issue and don't want to compromise l'beast (it still will cost me about
?1800, apparently the gearbox needs to be physically taken out and then
sorted) - however, I'm happy to attend, and make my presence felt, maybe I
can meet up with you there? I'm on the A38, access to the M4 into Wales is
quick and easy for me.
Re London meet, it shouldn't take me more than an hour & a half to get
there - l'beast needs a good blow out - surprisingly it didn't fail the MOT
on emissions, just a dicky rear brake light and the gear box wear.
Where are you based?
Cheers
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Chas
Sent: 08 October 2006 23:39
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Protest drive
Hi Pete,
I'd be interested, it'll be better than the French Riviera, how about you
Renate you're not far away? Have you got a meeting up place in mind? I'll be
coming up the M4, where are you?
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Browning
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:36 PM
Subject: [ELCO] Protest drive
You all know about the NERC Act and the fact that 60% of all our ?green
lanes? have been closed in England and are about to be shut down in Wales,
right? This all happened for no reason other than pure spite and
misinformation.
Well Sunday 15th October is the very last day that the Gap Road (between
Brecon and Pontsticill) will be open to drive in a 4x4 ? ever! It has
occurred to some that a final protest drive would be a) fun and b) leave us
with the feeling that at the least we made our feelings known. If you?ve not
driven the Gap then you don?t know what you?ve missed and this is your last
chance to experience it, it really has some seriously stunning views. There?
s also lot of other nice lanes in the area to be driven if you would like
to.
The Gap is non-damaging, the only tricky bits being the Tor Glass
?staircase? and the blown bridge at the Pontsticill end; a standard LC with
good AT?s or MT?s will probably be OK. I can point you in the direction of a
short video of my LC ascending the staircase if you?d like to judge for
yourselves. Oh to hell with it! ? the video is here (sorry about the
sound ? it was VERY windy):
http://www.worcester-networks.com/PeteGap.MOV
The question is ? is anyone interested in joining in.
This is not a definite trip at the mo, just a (rather late) idea so you
would not be committing yourself.
Thanks.
Pete
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Renate,
You are more than welcome to come along with me, if we don't hear any more from Pete about a meet-up place I can meet you somewhere convenient for both of us. I am based in Morden, South London.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: Renate Haupt
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Protest drive
Chas, Pete et al
I'd love to go to Brecon and do spot of off-roading but have still a gearbox issue and don't want to compromise l'beast (it still will cost me about =A31800, apparently the gearbox needs to be physically taken out and then sorted) - however, I'm happy to attend, and make my presence felt, maybe I can meet up with you there? I'm on the A38, access to the M4 into Wales is quick and easy for me.
Re London meet, it shouldn't take me more than an hour & a half to get there - l'beast needs a good blow out - surprisingly it didn't fail the MOT on emissions, just a dicky rear brake light and the gear box wear.
Where are you based?
Cheers
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Chas
Sent: 08 October 2006 23:39
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Protest drive
Hi Pete,
I'd be interested, it'll be better than the French Riviera, how about you Renate you're not far away? Have you got a meeting up place in mind? I'll be coming up the M4, where are you?
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Browning
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:36 PM
Subject: [ELCO] Protest drive
You all know about the NERC Act and the fact that 60% of all our "green lanes" have been closed in England and are about to be shut down in Wales, right? This all happened for no reason other than pure spite and misinformation.

Well Sunday 15th October is the very last day that the Gap Road (between Brecon and Pontsticill) will be open to drive in a 4x4 - ever! It has occurred to some that a final protest drive would be a) fun and b) leave us with the feeling that at the least we made our feelings known. If you've not driven the Gap then you don't know what you've missed and this is your last chance to experience it, it really has some seriously stunning views. There's also lot of other nice lanes in the area to be driven if you would like to.

The Gap is non-damaging, the only tricky bits being the Tor Glass "staircase" and the blown bridge at the Pontsticill end; a standard LC with good AT's or MT's will probably be OK. I can point you in the direction of a short video of my LC ascending the staircase if you'd like to judge for yourselves. Oh to hell with it! - the video is here (sorry about the sound - it was VERY windy):

http://www.worcester-networks.com/PeteGap.MOV

The question is - is anyone interested in joining in.

This is not a definite trip at the mo, just a (rather late) idea so you would not be committing yourself.

Thanks.

Pete
 
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G

Guest

Guest
On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Chas wrote:
> TTFN
Hi Chas
what is this 'TTFN'?
cheers
lubo
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi all
As some of you may know I and other in CRAG are working with the Brecon
beacons Nation Park & Powys CC & Welsh Assembly Government inc the
police .to try and save these lanes from being closed or at least
getting an agreed set of trails to use in the NP. This has taken some
two years of hard work to get to this point. we have had good talks with
the NP officers and Powys CC & Chief Superintendent for Powys. Basically
we are almost there with a yes ish. But we have got a lot more work to
do yet in the next month .meetings are happening weekly at the mo as the
closer we get to the cut off date, this inc almost daily conversations
with many parties.
The NERC bill is very vague about duals and the legal advice they have
received also is still just as vague. With what we have achieved with
the NP and CC over the last 2 years, people are changing there views
towards recreational motorist. They have realising that stopping
responsible user's will not cure the problems as the unlawful use will
still continue and may increase. But working in partnership with
responsible users groups we may help change / convert the unlawful
users.
Anyways the reason I have spoken up is that I feel a protest drive in
the BBNP may ruin the respect we have earned and finally put the nail in
the coffin once and for all. If people wish to protest please do so at
another location or after NERC has commenced. You can still drive al lot
of lanes in Wales after NERC .but all we are trying to do is save what
we have left & may be a bit more , please give us that chance.
The comments above are my views only and not views of CRAG
Yours
Ray Dadd
www.crag-uk.org
 
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Guest

Guest
Ta Ta For Now !
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Lubomir Kolev
Sent: 09 October 2006 20:55
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Protest drive
On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Chas wrote:
TTFN
Hi Chas
what is this 'TTFN'?
cheers
lubo
 
G

Guest

Guest
;-)))))))))
On Oct 9, 2006, at 10:31 PM, Anjam Sohail wrote:
> Ta Ta For Now !
>
> From: [Email address removed] [mailto:elco-
> [Email address removed]] On Behalf Of Lubomir Kolev
> Sent: 09 October 2006 20:55
> To: [Email address removed]
> Subject: Re: [ELCO] Protest drive
>
>
> On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Chas wrote:
>
>> TTFN
> Hi Chas
> what is this 'TTFN'?
> cheers
> lubo
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Lubo,
There once was a DJ called Jimmy Young who used to sign off his shows with TTFN =3D Ta Ta For Now (goodbye for now)
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: Lubomir Kolev
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Protest drive
On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Chas wrote:
TTFN
Hi Chas
what is this 'TTFN'?
cheers
lubo
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Ray.
I am not a protestor, I just wanted to do a drive that may never again be
available, if on arrival at Brecon there were any protests going on you
wouldn't see me for the dust from my 8o.
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Dadd" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:04 PM
Subject: [ELCO] Protest drive
 
G

Guest

Guest
thanks Chas :)))
TTFN
Lubo
On Oct 9, 2006, at 11:02 PM, Chas wrote:
> Hi Lubo,
> There once was a DJ called Jimmy Young who used to sign off his
> shows with TTFN = Ta Ta For Now (goodbye for now)
> TTFN
> Chas
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lubomir Kolev
> To: [Email address removed]
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [ELCO] Protest drive
>
>
> On Oct 9, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Chas wrote:
>
>> TTFN
> Hi Chas
> what is this 'TTFN'?
> cheers
> lubo
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Ray
Whilst I respect both your views and the work you have put in I have to
disagree with you in specifics.
How can you say that NERC is "very vague" about duals? It's crystal clear to
me in that any road on the LoS that also has a footpath or bridleway running
along it, even if only for part of its length, then that whole or part
reverts to footpath or bridleway and loses any vehicular rights. There aint
no way never that that piece of law is ever going to be successfully
challenged or revoked, it simply becomes the law of the land. You can always
negotiate privately with the landowners yes but that's a separate issue.
Likewise the Holy Grail of the fabled five year rule is equally unlikely to
have any bearing whatsoever.
In any event, Sunday is likely to be the last day ever that the Gap can be
driven and if a group of 4x4 drivers want to gather to "celebrate" that then
why the hell shouldn't they??? What do you think we're going to do? Lob CS
grenades at the ramblers as we pass??? Blimey!
Ray, you and your group have your own agenda and that's fine but please
don't try and bend others to your will. Maybe you will get a permit system
of sorts set up in BBNPA but even if you do I for one would not be the
slightest bit interested in it. My idea of driving the lanes is looking at
the forecast on a Friday night and thinking, yeah, lets go to "wherever" for
a drive; I don't have the sort of lifestyle where I can, or want to book a
poxy permit up a month in advance, nor would I want to.
I shall go along on Sunday and if there is one other vehicle, or one hundred
other vehicles I won't care. Whatever you think Ray, it's not going to make
the slightest difference to the final outcome for the majority of us
"casual" laners.
BTW, Neither are we supposed to be "pushing" political points of view on
this forum! ;-)
Pete
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi Pete,
What time do you intend to get there?
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:11 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Protest drive
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Chas
I'll take this topic "off-list" I think.
Can you email me privately please Chas, and also anyone else who is
interested in a "last chance saloon" drive of this stunning road. It's well
worth it.
Not to be missed!
Pete
 
G

Guest

Guest
Willingly Pete, but how do I get your email address? I've looked on the ELCO
site and can't find a members list, what am I doing wrong?
TTFN
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Browning" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Protest drive
 
G

Guest

Guest
Pete
As you say we are all entitled to our opinions. Your decision to take
this of list is the best compromise thanks you.
Ray
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 09 October 2006 23:26
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Protest drive
Hi Chas
I'll take this topic "off-list" I think.
Can you email me privately please Chas, and also anyone else who is
interested in a "last chance saloon" drive of this stunning road. It's
well
worth it.
Not to be missed!
Pete
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Chas
Good point! :)
You can get me at [Email address removed]
Pete
 
G

Guest

Guest
Pete,
I think you were wrong to take the topic off list. All you are
doing is organising a get together of people that are going to legally
drive a road. The fact that Ray thinks you should not do it is his
choice but, in my opinion, he should not be in any position to dictate
other people's lifestyle, or the content of this forum. This is
supposed to be an open forum and if Ray is a moderator I have yet to
be informed about it. These tracks will never open again, the
authorities are only giving lip service with their meetings. The
ramblers will keep on until the tracks are closed for good, they are
driven by a few other people that think they can dictate to all and
sundry what is allowed and what is not. It is always the noisey
minority that are listened to.
I wish Ray well with his efforts but was CRAG not born out of the
collapse of GLASS?, and what good did that organisation do? Not a lot,
apart from in-fighting themselves to destruction.
I have seen this last days drive on another forum or two so we
may not be alone, I only hope all are going the same way.
Regards, Clive.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Clive, I agree with you.
But I'm totally fed up to the back teeth with being sniped at.
Whatever and wherever I post anything at all up pops a CRAG personage
to make some snide comment at or about me.
Yes, IMO CRAG have a very dictatorial attitude and seem to think that
their path is the only true path to the Holy Grail and no-one else is
allowed to gainsay them on pain of being accused of heresy and then
burnt at the stake!
It is my unshakeable opinion that, as you say, the RUPPs and duals are
GONE, for ever, full stop and also that the BOATs and UCRs are also
gone, but not quite yet, they will die the death of a thousand cuts by
TRO over the next few years.
So it will not matter one iota whether we have one truck or one
hundred trucks driving the Gap on Sunday.
It's off-list purely because I don't want to risk losing it and saying
something I shouldn't about CRAG that the list owner might not like
;-)
Anyone that's interested in the trip mail me at
[Email address removed]
Pete
 
G

Guest

Guest
Peter,
Julian is the list owner and he is very good at letting people
have their opinions.
I see CRAG going the same way as GLASS, IE, being so self
rightous about theirs being the only way and having no time for any
other suggestions to the extent that they eventually adopt that
attitude as individuals and then there is no hope.
In my opinion you have done nothing wrong by advertising your
intention and inviting others to join you, all very sociable.
Ray, on the other hand has straight away done the CRAG thing, IE,
don't do that because I am doing this and you may spoil it.
I am fairly sure that I am up for sunday and hope that we have a
good turnout. Do you have a CB channel that you use?
Regards, Clive.
 
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