RE engine wear when cold

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Guest
Willem Jan wrote.............
Webasto used to claim that every cold start equals 500km normal wear.
But haven't seen that claim in later brochures, possibly because oils
have gotten better and better....but I guess 250km is still
plausible.
SNIP
It is not so long ago that LR fitted a Webasto system to the Freelander and
I am told they had horrendous problems. Maybe they still fit it, dunno.
Problem with both Webasto, Eberspacher and Mikuni is that they are designed
as truck cab heaters for overnight stops, and although now used for engine
heating they are still basically cab heaters. I have also had involvement
with them on boats, and that trade has almost completely died as they are
so poor with reliability. Fuel quality is a great problem, especially on
boats running on red diesel. No problem for road vehicles, but what about
you pioneers putting chip oil in your tanks ?!
What is wrong with the Kenlowe Hotstart for those who have mains
electricity in the garage? I think I will put one in my 80 for next
winter. Or any bad stories?
WJ's comments on wear are surely right but I would think that the auto
transmission issue would be more important, and Lal's suggestion to remote
start is a good one. I have some experience of oil drag I would never wish
to repeat. I lived in Minsk 94-97 and often drove a Lada Zhigulie (yes, I
know, but the EU's rules were that I had to spend cash on local vehicles).
It would start at minus 25 after putting boiling water on the alloy inlet
manifold, but would not turnover on the key without the clutch pedal to the
floor. Such was the oil drag on the free spinning shaft. It would be
several minutes before I could take the foot off the pedal and let it idle,
any sooner and it killed the engine. It would only run after lifting my
foot several times to just churn the oil a little.
So comments on auto transmissions - even with light ATF in them - are
probably as pertinent as those on warming the engine. I am glad my 80 is a
manual, but when you live in mountains having a warm screen early in the
morning is more than a luxury.
Nice to see WJ is with us, I thought it was quiet till now.
You give us all a warm glow with your comments uncle WJ ;o)
Cheers
Jon
'92 HZJ80 ex UN surplus in Bosnia
 
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On 4 Jul 2004 at 8:55, toy80 wrote:
What *kind* of problems?
Have one in HJ60 since 1990, and one in HDJ80 since 1993, neither has
ever quit on me....
Tons of industrial/commercial fleets & equipment rely on them too,
and for Mercedes & BMW they have been OEM-option since decades.
works without problem for either engine or heater....and you could
always run a dedicated diesel tank for the heater of course (would
even allow red/tax-free diesel for that purpose!).
The windscreen of a Cruiser is just too damn big to remove all
snow/ice from in the morning, especially on lifted vehicles....:))
--
Bye,
Willem-Jan Markerink
The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand
<[Email address removed]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]
 
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Guest
Jon,
I agree witb W.J. (Hello W.J and welcome to a new forum!)
Webasto /Eberspacher heaters have been used for years in trucks and boats. I
am now on my second Air Top 2000 (it's a space heater, though).
I am not sure what was the problem with the Freelander but considering the way
these cars are built I'd expect Webasto to be the most relaible part of the
vehicle.
To get a better perspective on cold starting, perhaps we should invite the
expert - Runsi from Iceland (is he still around?).
As for Kenlowe, I've never used their heaters, only fans. But judging by the
way they sell their products, the exagerated fuel saving claims, the cable tie
method of fixing the fan to the radiator and other subtle clues, I would be
surprised if their heater happened to be in a different league.
If saomeone is really fussy aboyut winterizing the engine, here's a better way
to warm up fuel than the puny fuel filter heater fitted by Toyota:
http://www.arctic-fox.com/sitepages/pid13.php
--
Rgds,
Roman
London UK
'92 HDJ80
Quoting toy80 <[Email address removed]>:
 
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Guest

Guest
Whilst a Webasto heater will warm up the block, I suspect that pre starting the enginewould be a better option because it will also warm up the gearbox a bit.
I wonder if any of the remote start devices can do an autostart device?
Cheers,
Julian
Home: 01285 821 712
Office: 01285 821 910
Mobile: 07971 540 362
________________ Reply Header ________________
Subject: Re: [ELCO] RE engine wear when cold
Author: roman <[Email address removed]>
Date: 5th July 2004 11:34:46 am
Jon,
I agree witb W.J. (Hello W.J and welcome to a new forum!)
Webasto /Eberspacher heaters have been used for years in trucks and boats. I
am now on my second Air Top 2000 (it's a space heater, though).
I am not sure what was the problem with the Freelander but considering the way
these cars are built I'd expect Webasto to be the most relaible part of the vehicle.
To get a better perspective on cold starting, perhaps we should invite the expert - Runsi from Iceland (is he still around?).
As for Kenlowe, I've never used their heaters, only fans. But judging by the
way they sell their products, the exagerated fuel saving claims, the cable tie
method of fixing the fan to the radiator and other subtle clues, I would be surprised if their heater happened to be in a different league.
If saomeone is really fussy aboyut winterizing the engine, here's a better way
to warm up fuel than the puny fuel filter heater fitted by Toyota:
http://www.arctic-fox.com/sitepages/pid13.php
--
Rgds,
Roman
London UK
'92 HDJ80
Quoting toy80 <[Email address removed]>:
and
dunno.
designed
engine
 
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Guest

Guest
On 5 Jul 2004 at 12:01, Julian Voelcker wrote:
But by idling a cold engine, you only increase engine wear....that
would be the worst-case scenario in the context of engine-wear.
Best way is engaging gearbox (highest gear possible), and putting T-
case in neutral.
In arctic area's this is the only way to get going, still having to
overcome the huge drag of the diff's/axles themselves....without it,
with a frozen gearbox/T-case, you will get nowhere, since the engine
will stall, in particular gasolines of course....;))
--
Bye,
Willem-Jan Markerink
The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand
<[Email address removed]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]
 
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Guest

Guest
On 5 Jul 2004 at 11:34, roman wrote:
Wasn't familiar with that one, only with these thusfar:
http://www.maesco.com/products/kim/kimbatwarm/kimbatwarm.html
http://www.maesco.com/products/kim/kimcatalog/section4.pdf
http://kimhotstart.com/
And here the nifty concept from Toyota, heating the coolant with a
viscous heat-generating pump:
http://www.buschtaxi.org/downloadz/technik/viscose_heizverstaerker.jpg
(the Toyota Corolla Verso has an even niftier system, a true &
reversible heat pump that assists both the heater and the airco:
http://www.buschtaxi.org/cms/index.php?id=274
--
Bye,
Willem-Jan Markerink
The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand
<[Email address removed]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi Willem-Jan,
True, but I'm not dealing with extreme cold conditions.
I accept that the engine is going to wear when you run it (<g>), I
would just prefer it to be warmed up a bit before I drive the 800yards
to the dual carriageway and then have to accelerate as fast as possible
to 70-80mph to join the flow of traffic.
Block heaters will warm the engine, but not the gearbox (although I
suppose I could fit one).
I suppose I need to strike a balance between the costs of the solutions
against the costs of the issues do to the wear.
I think the fist step is to make sure that I use the best oils
available throughout the vehicle. At the moment the suggestions seem
to be towards either AMSOIL or Castrol Syntec.
Thanks to one and all for the solutions, time to go away and think
about it.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
80less at the moment - Roll on June!
 
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Guest
Quoting Julian Voelcker <[Email address removed]>:
Julian,
You must be up against pretty wild drivers out there! Here's a trick - before
you join the motorway traffic wait untill you see a small car approaching,
like a fiesta or clio. It will be in the best interest of the other driver to
slow down and let you pick up speed gradually, unless he wants an argument
with a solid steel rear bumper and tow hook at the end of a 2.5 ton vehicle. :-
))))))))
Now, it is something I'd be interested to poll this group for opinion - is it
really worthwhile to spend big money on oils? Does it really make a difference
to pay twice as much and change it at less frequent intervals than to use
ordinary oil and change it more often? Has any one done a comparison/cost
analysis? I know it's a bit like asking if brunettes are more sexy than
blondes, but at least it would give me some sort of idea what others have
tried and found acceptable.
--
Rgds,
Roman
London UK
'92 HDJ80
 
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Guest
Hi Roman,
It's the A417 between Gloucester and Swindon - in addition to normal commuter
traffic it is one of the main rat runs for traffic from the North and the M5
cutting down to the M4 in the south.
The main problem is that there is no slip way to speak of so you have no room for
a run up and also people aren't expecting you to pull out.
What amazes me is the number of drivers coming down the slow lane with an empty
fast lane who will not pull over to let you out.
I'm not sure if the question should relate to reducing service intervals, it
would be more interesting just work on the basis of using expensive (better)
versus cheap (worse) oil for standard service intervals.
I wouldn't be surprised that for the average user here, the financial benefits
from the increase in the working life of the engine and (supposed) improved fuel
consumption from the more expensive synthetic oils will justify the extra
expense.
However I am sure that if you were running a trucking company covering very high
miles it may well be justifiable.
Personally I am inclined to go for a good quality oil, buy in bulk (50 gallon
drum) and maintain regular servicing, relying in the reduction in price from
buying in bulk to make it justifiable.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
80less at the moment - Roll on June!
 
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