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Rising Energy Costs and Electric Vehicles
Lol, stated range is as bad as the stated mpg numbers for ICE. Mine is claimed to be 320 miles, I can just about get 170 miles and it's even worse in winter. Ok, I do have a heavy foot and typically cruise at 78mph, which doesn't help.
Fortunately I do benefit for the Tesla super charging network, and these have capacity right now, but it is rumoured that Musk wants to open this up other manufacturers.
When buying EV, in order or importance for me right now would be:
Range
Speed of charging (mine can max out around 240Kwh) so saves time
Brand/Finish etc
The two biggest issues is how long it takes to charge, so you need to plan your journeys to allow for the extra time and cost of entry. These things are not cheap...
The only EV I really lust after is the Audi etron GT RS, but at £120k, sadly it's just a wet dream
Fortunately I do benefit for the Tesla super charging network, and these have capacity right now, but it is rumoured that Musk wants to open this up other manufacturers.
When buying EV, in order or importance for me right now would be:
Range
Speed of charging (mine can max out around 240Kwh) so saves time
Brand/Finish etc
The two biggest issues is how long it takes to charge, so you need to plan your journeys to allow for the extra time and cost of entry. These things are not cheap...
The only EV I really lust after is the Audi etron GT RS, but at £120k, sadly it's just a wet dream
They quote their manufacturers ranges and defo downplay the range issues. It's very easy to get caught up in the glamour and tech in the Tesla's when in the showrooms, so easily to get distracted.
When I got mine there was no other choice that got close to the range so it was a no brainer, but for a neigh on £60k car the build and finish quality is shocking. Customer service is quite poor too.
Big plus is the acceleration.. 0-60 is in the low 3seconds.... makes B road driving quite fun
When I got mine there was no other choice that got close to the range so it was a no brainer, but for a neigh on £60k car the build and finish quality is shocking. Customer service is quite poor too.
Big plus is the acceleration.. 0-60 is in the low 3seconds.... makes B road driving quite fun
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stuzbot
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It'll be interesting to see what happens with the 2nd hand market, as regards the wider adoption of EVs. I've never been able to even nearly afford a new vehicle and most of the motors I've bought have been 10, 20, or more years old.
With a bit of luck and some decent maintenance, you can get cheap reliable motoring from buying a 20+ year old vehicle. I doubt we'll see the same with EVs. For a start, the batteries will need to be replaced after X years. Judging by how similar battery tech lasts elsewhere, that could be in as little as 5 years. And a replacement battery is going to cost you about half the value of the car [although, admittedly this will come down with economies of scale].
So, while I might be prepared to fork out a few grand for a 20 year old wagon, which seems to have been looked after, and be pretty confident that, with a bit of TLC and fettling, it will perform somewhere approaching how it did when new, I'd be a lot less willing to spend a similar amount on even a 5 year old EV, never mind a 10 or 20 year old one, knowing that the battery must have had hundreds if not thousands of charging cycles in that time.
We all know, from our phones and laptops that, after a few years, they still work fine, but just won't hold charge like they used to. So, will the same be true of EVs? Will your range keep dropping and dropping, as the charge cycles mount up, until 100% will barely last you til the end of the street? And, what then? You either stump up several thousand for a replacement battery, or try and sell the vehicle on. And I would imagine the market for a 2nd hand EV with a range measured in hundreds of metres wouldn't be that huge.
So, yes, you might be saving 75% in fuel costs at the moment [although that's not likely to last, given the way electricity prices are going]. But you also have to factor in the cost of that new battery after 5 years or so. It's a bit like if any time you bought an ICE vehicle, you had to budget for the fact it was going to need a new engine every 5 years [Insert Nissan ZD30 jokes here]
With a bit of luck and some decent maintenance, you can get cheap reliable motoring from buying a 20+ year old vehicle. I doubt we'll see the same with EVs. For a start, the batteries will need to be replaced after X years. Judging by how similar battery tech lasts elsewhere, that could be in as little as 5 years. And a replacement battery is going to cost you about half the value of the car [although, admittedly this will come down with economies of scale].
So, while I might be prepared to fork out a few grand for a 20 year old wagon, which seems to have been looked after, and be pretty confident that, with a bit of TLC and fettling, it will perform somewhere approaching how it did when new, I'd be a lot less willing to spend a similar amount on even a 5 year old EV, never mind a 10 or 20 year old one, knowing that the battery must have had hundreds if not thousands of charging cycles in that time.
We all know, from our phones and laptops that, after a few years, they still work fine, but just won't hold charge like they used to. So, will the same be true of EVs? Will your range keep dropping and dropping, as the charge cycles mount up, until 100% will barely last you til the end of the street? And, what then? You either stump up several thousand for a replacement battery, or try and sell the vehicle on. And I would imagine the market for a 2nd hand EV with a range measured in hundreds of metres wouldn't be that huge.
So, yes, you might be saving 75% in fuel costs at the moment [although that's not likely to last, given the way electricity prices are going]. But you also have to factor in the cost of that new battery after 5 years or so. It's a bit like if any time you bought an ICE vehicle, you had to budget for the fact it was going to need a new engine every 5 years [Insert Nissan ZD30 jokes here]
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For us as time goes by and i become an even older even more doddering fool if we come away from Diesel and LPG supplies are any harder than currently to find, then i'd rather try and find a non taxi'd Toyota hybrid, because their hybrid system is proving reliable and durable for a long long time, so long as you get it servied at Mr T and the hybrid battery/system checked by them you can get the whole car including the hybrid battery warranted for 10 years.
I've also seen on Youtube a competent DIYer replace by himself a failing hybrid battery set in a Prius 2, basically removing the battery pack which is a hell of a lot more accessible than an EV and replacing it with a reconditioned unit, cost of that should be around £800/1000 if you can do the donkey work yourself, which is about the cost of a clutch on a modern car with DMF.
The only fly in the ointment here is that the taxi trade know how good these things are so their used values are sky high.
I've also seen on Youtube a competent DIYer replace by himself a failing hybrid battery set in a Prius 2, basically removing the battery pack which is a hell of a lot more accessible than an EV and replacing it with a reconditioned unit, cost of that should be around £800/1000 if you can do the donkey work yourself, which is about the cost of a clutch on a modern car with DMF.
The only fly in the ointment here is that the taxi trade know how good these things are so their used values are sky high.
Agree with you Stu, I don't think I would buy my own Tesla back at the end of the lease. The battery life will degrade, how bad that will be I don't know. As it's a company car, I don't care, I'll just give it back and get another when 4 years old.
I think anytime soon, prob within the next 2 years .gov policy will change and it will cost me more in BIK and VED, but I'm making the most of it right now.
I think anytime soon, prob within the next 2 years .gov policy will change and it will cost me more in BIK and VED, but I'm making the most of it right now.
None of us blame you Tony or anyone else who can make hay while the sun still shines, if my job came with a company car i too would probably plump for a Tesla.
Interesting point from HIggy, how exactly do you make an EV battery last as long as possible, if you parked it at the airport and buggered off on holiday and for some reason the bloody thing flattened itself after 1 week, would 3 weeks flat do it any harm?
Is best to fully charge them or let them flatten right down before recharge?
Interesting point from HIggy, how exactly do you make an EV battery last as long as possible, if you parked it at the airport and buggered off on holiday and for some reason the bloody thing flattened itself after 1 week, would 3 weeks flat do it any harm?
Is best to fully charge them or let them flatten right down before recharge?
I've not been brave enough to leave it at a airport as I don't want the hassle of a flat car 11pm at night after a long flight.
Having said that during COVID it sat on the drive fully charger and lost about 10% to 15% a week, so not too bad.
To get the best battery life recommendation is to keep it between 20% and 80% charge. With the distance I do, it's more like 10% and 95%. I often max it out to 100%, and get home at about 12%.
I'd hate to run out of battery, no idea how I get recovered, do the AA carry Genny's to give a boost charge?
Having said that during COVID it sat on the drive fully charger and lost about 10% to 15% a week, so not too bad.
To get the best battery life recommendation is to keep it between 20% and 80% charge. With the distance I do, it's more like 10% and 95%. I often max it out to 100%, and get home at about 12%.
I'd hate to run out of battery, no idea how I get recovered, do the AA carry Genny's to give a boost charge?
Higgy
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Clare and i have toyed with the idea of a EV for her, But we then found out our old Cottage would need the Supply upgrading ( Free of charge)... But then discovered there is not one Charging point From home to her School, The schools do not have charging facilities, The supermarkets Dont,.... So thats a NO! then... Until the infrastructure is in place we wont be bothering....... I think the potential is promising, But it's like it's been thought about back to Front......... Imagine years ago someone saying "We've invented this Petrol car".... Then someone saying " But where do we get Petrol From"........ Oh! 'Errr' Good point we didnt think of that.. "Quick Build things where People can Buy petrol"........."Shall we call them Stations"?........ Yeeeeess!!!!
@Higgy isn't that how cars and fuel infrastructure evolved? Cars must have driven the buildout of petrol station as the demand was there.
If you don't do many miles, or just local driving, then it's not so bad as you just keep it charged up daily, so you always have enough range. Just a different approach. You can charge 9ff the 16A 3pin socket, just takes longer, but if your daily drive is not far, then no problem.
If you don't do many miles, or just local driving, then it's not so bad as you just keep it charged up daily, so you always have enough range. Just a different approach. You can charge 9ff the 16A 3pin socket, just takes longer, but if your daily drive is not far, then no problem.
Bodie
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There's some great information on this thread and detailed reviews based on experience.
But I thought I'd throw somethimg into the ring.... Obviously this is still a subject, where there are so many unknowns, but if I'm honest, my thoughts are still with the REAL carbon footprint of EVs, particularly based on longevity!..... because the underlying issue, is that there simply isn't enough Lithium in the world to produce all of these electric vehicles, let alone to maintain them all well into the future!
So..... are they really the best option? or is there a more sustainable option?
But I thought I'd throw somethimg into the ring.... Obviously this is still a subject, where there are so many unknowns, but if I'm honest, my thoughts are still with the REAL carbon footprint of EVs, particularly based on longevity!..... because the underlying issue, is that there simply isn't enough Lithium in the world to produce all of these electric vehicles, let alone to maintain them all well into the future!
So..... are they really the best option? or is there a more sustainable option?
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Paper bags can be worse for the environment than plastic ones.
It's become a common notion that paper is always a better choice than plastic. In fact, bans on plastic bags are regularly being enacted.
However, both paper and plastic have their drawbacks. According to research, paper bag production emits 70 percent more pollution, uses four times as much energy, and takes more time to break down, when compared to plastic bags. Guess the best option is to carry reusable bags with you.
stuzbot
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True. Tony seems to be in the lucky position where he's getting a brand new EV almost for free, while the costs of running one are --I predict-- being kept artificially low to encourage their adoption. After which point --I also predict-- 'the market will be allowed to find its own level' [or similar politician -speak] and the cost of running an EV will shoot up to what the cost of running an ICE is now. But, as Juddian says, why not take advantage of the situation while you can.
Good point. that's something I hadn't even thought of.
I had to jump in my van the other week, coz the Cruiser was out of diesel. It had been sitting there for a couple of months unused and through rain, sleet and snow and it started first turn of the key. I know if I left my phone or laptop switched off and unplugged for more than a few days, it would be too flat to start, without charging it up. I imagine EVs have a bit more fancy battery management tech than my phone or laptop. But they still must run flat in a certain amount of time, if not used regularly.
It seems that the only other game in town is hydrogen. I know I read an article a while back that one of the big manufacturers [Japanese or German, I think] was putting serious money into developing better hydrogen fuel cells, in preference to electric.
Hydrogen, of course has the major advantages of being hugely abundant, cheap to produce and, when burnt produces water as its 'pollutant'.
It also, of course, has the major disadvantage of being highly explosive and that footage of the Hindenberg disaster doesn't do its PR any good.
