Rust treatment and undersealing

[Tractionman]

I wouldn't give anyone, any work without meeting/ knowing something about them, how do I know they wont take the piss. Most things Ive had done come with a figure that has been close to final price or quote, with rust one can only give a 'guestimate', so costs can rapidly rise. It was you who originally spoke about the £2k steam pressure washer as a must have to clean off. Would someone really say, " don't steam pressure wash it too much, it might be worse". I don't think so. That is where extra unforseen time and money comes in.
Now you say it's not who or how it's pressure washed. So a £2k spend is not needed then, something cheaper will do just as well.

 

[Shayne]

Going back to the original question Ratmos' truck has already undergone some less than ideal treatment which will make the job of doing it properly even more difficult .
Krown will seep under it and make it flake of as it does severe rust . Its an arse about face way of doing things but i'd imagine a year after the Krown stops rust the areas that most need proper attention will be very obvious

 

[qbartx]

I wouldn't give anyone, any work without meeting/ knowing something about them, how do I know they wont take the piss. Most things Ive had done come with a figure that has been close to final price or quote, with rust one can only give a 'guestimate', so costs can rapidly rise. It was you who originally spoke about the £2k steam pressure washer as a must have to clean off. Would someone really say, " don't steam pressure wash it too much, it might be worse". I don't think so. That is where extra unforseen time and money comes in.
Now you say it's not who or how it's pressure washed. So a £2k spend is not needed then, something cheaper will do just as well.

It's not a must but only proper, fastest and giving best results way to do that .
You've taken things out of context. I've said that it's not down to who or how it's washed as it won't change how your car is rusted, you can only wash it as good as you can and if you get holes it is what it is.

 

[Tractionman]

Not at all. Some members on here have done very successful work, and full restorations with excellent results, without all the equipment and materials you advocate. It's been debated many times on this forum, about methods and materials used, and everybody has a preferred method that through experience suits them, and gives the desired result, without ultra expensive equipment, that you as a business can get back from the taxman, + the vat if registered.
No one would deny, proper prep work is most essential, but I would have thought a descaling gun would be a bit excessive on anything but the chassis, some have tried.
You have an opinion as everyone else, it doesn't make you right and everyone else wrong. Your way may suit you through experience, but it is not the definitive answer that you want everyone to accept, especially when some have done this to a very high standard, from people that are happy to put time, effort and cost, without having customers with very deep pockets to pay for it. It would appear from your avatar that you have it all covered. Nuff said. As Shayne rightly says we have gone away from Ratmos's original post, unless of course you are touting for more business. Keep up the good work !

 

[Jacob100]

Returning to rust I have not noticed any real deterioration since my visit to Krown three and a half years ago, an observation echoed by my regular MoT man.

 

[Grimbo]

Being involved in the world of WW2 vehicles and restoring and owning them we know a bit about rust.....
The only way to stop rust is to remove all trace of oxidization ....ie sand/bead /shot blasting until all the metal is an even grey colour even at the bottom of the little pits in the surface....then spray it with a good anti rust primer and several coats of paint .

This obviously is not possible without fully stripping your Cruiser so any treatment is about slowing the corrosion .... to do it properly is going to be time consuming and good products are not cheap.....this coupled with the fact modern vehicles are not as well rust proofed as an 80 was is going to be an ongoing problem until the predicted global warming ramps up and councils stop spreading salt on UK roads so muppets who have just scrapped ice of their windscreen don't skid off on the first corner they come to then try and sue the council because it's not their fault they skidded into a ditch . Unfortunately by this time we will all be either dead or restricted to driving boring EV's .....
Happy Christmas
Yours
Scrooge

 

[SteveJB]

Minty flavoured sweet Anyone

 

[qbartx]

Not at all. Some members on here have done very successful work, and full restorations with excellent results, without all the equipment and materials you advocate. It's been debated many times on this forum, about methods and materials used, and everybody has a preferred method that through experience suits them, and gives the desired result, without ultra expensive equipment, that you as a business can get back from the taxman, + the vat if registered.
No one would deny, proper prep work is most essential, but I would have thought a descaling gun would be a bit excessive on anything but the chassis, some have tried.
You have an opinion as everyone else, it doesn't make you right and everyone else wrong. Your way may suit you through experience, but it is not the definitive answer that you want everyone to accept, especially when some have done this to a very high standard, from people that are happy to put time, effort and cost, without having customers with very deep pockets to pay for it. It would appear from your avatar that you have it all covered. Nuff said. As Shayne rightly says we have gone away from Ratmos's original post, unless of course you are touting for more business. Keep up the good work !

I think you need to chill out lol Firstly i do not advocate anything . If anyone is advocating anything it's you saying that everyone should do that themselves. I'm sure that some people on here restored their cars themselves but i seriously doubt that they didn't use at least descaling gun or didn't have stuff sand blasted...I'm all about people having a go at fixing their cars and that's why i always help with picking right products and methods. I spend hours helping people with finding parts or even remotely helping with diagnosing etc don't charge a penny for that so your pun about touting for more business is simply poor I only write that so people will know how to do it right and so people reading it and looking for recommendation would have some idea what to expect. You also forget that not all people want to spend a week under their car and would rather do what they do best at their job and leave this stuff to people who know what they are doing .
How you remove oil from diffs, crossmembers, also old waxes etc Take a rag and wipe it off? Or you just paint over it? How do you remove flaky rust from all recessed places like arm mounts brackets , chip away with a hammer for a week, just scrape roughly with a screwdriver call it good enough and paint over it? What you do with top edge of chassis? Truth is you will probably do better rustproofing job yourself than ordinary workshop but there isn't even a slimmest chance that you will do it better than someone that has proper tools and specializes in rustproofing. Doesn't matter how long you spend on it.
Ratmors original post was about doing it professionally so maybe let's just stick to that.

 

[Shayne]

"unless of course you are touting for more business. Keep up the good work !"

That's encouragement , much is lost in text such as body language and a smile but we all acknowledge some will do a good job the conversation went tits up somewhere along the line because the only way to gain sure knowledge of what has been done is to do it yourself .

Many here have access to needle guns etc

 

[qbartx]

Shayne, it's all good , we're not picking up swords just yet Everything on forums should be taken with a pinch of salt and people can make out of it what they want, everyone's got his own brain

 

[Tractionman]

Everyone should do it themselves, mmm,

 

[chapel gate]

Being involved in the world of WW2 vehicles and restoring and owning them we know a bit about rust.....
The only way to stop rust is to remove all trace of oxidization ....ie sand/bead /shot blasting until all the metal is an even grey colour even at the bottom of the little pits in the surface....then spray it with a good anti rust primer and several coats of paint .

This obviously is not possible without fully stripping your Cruiser so any treatment is about slowing the corrosion .... to do it properly is going to be time consuming and good products are not cheap.....this coupled with the fact modern vehicles are not as well rust proofed as an 80 was is going to be an ongoing problem until the predicted global warming ramps up and councils stop spreading salt on UK roads so muppets who have just scrapped ice of their windscreen don't skid off on the first corner they come to then try and sue the council because it's not their fault they skidded into a ditch . Unfortunately by this time we will all be either dead or restricted to driving boring EV's .....
Happy Christmas
Yours
Scrooge

spot on.

 

[Shayne]

A prime example of being in the dark about what lies beneath https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...de=le102bt&model=LAND CRUISER COLORADO&page=1

 

[Juddian]

Just my tuppence, getting back to Ratmors's OP.

If it's flaking off then it sounds to me like it was a waxoyl or similar spray on decoration job over an aleady rusting chassis without any decent preparation work before coating..
What i would do is get the whole underbody steam cleaned and see what the chassis is like and then decide how to go about good preventative treatment, if its flaking then arguably the present muck needs to come off completely because it will be holding salt water in places where it's peeling which can't drain or dry out and the chassis would be better off naked as it were for the rest of the winter.

Depending on condition and what you wish to spend, it might be better to spray the whole chassis in whatever products one prefers once cleaned off, i use ACF50 regularly, some recommend Krown, others would spray chain lube liberally about, an old chap i spoke to regularly swore by Castrol CL waterproof grease which seems to have vanished but similar marine use greases are available quite cheaply via ebay, circa £40 for a 12.5kg tub, that would coat a lot of chassis by hand painting on and chain lube or whatever sprayed on after to seep into the nooks, once you go down this route it's going to be even harder to revert to painting, so if you go oily products you are going to have to keep that method up permanently.

A full professional treatment able to withstand future pressure washing is going to cost big money, starting at £1000, it costs around £450 for a pro waxoyling, i know this because i had the job done to my then new Hilux which needed no prep work at all not even a wash, and to be perfectly honest i can and do a better job myself with better products.
You are wanting a hard finish, that means full descaling of the chassis, prep treatments and full coverage with some serious paints and probably baked hard, i dare this is possible to find but will take a long time and will cost.

Unless you are prepared for a week or more's worth of work and a bill well into 4 figures, it might be just as good long term to get it basically treated then coated with one of the oil/lanolin based products but accept that this will need inspection and additional coverage, every year ideally.

Remember it isn't just the chassis that needs cavity spraying with something oily that creeps, the body sections need this too.

We shouldn't need these conversations, Toyota should by the time the 120/100/200 were released have gotten round to zinc plating the chassis and suspension/drivetrain castings for countries that see salt in ridiculous quantities like ours.

 

[Grimbo]

"We shouldn't need these conversations, Toyota should by the time the 120/100/200 were released have gotten round to zinc plating the chassis and suspension/drivetrain castings for countries that see salt in ridiculous quantities like ours. "

For most of Toyota's market ...ie places that need a tough 4x4 ;-) .... the rust proofing they carry out is more than sufficient . No excuse for them not carrying out as good a job as they did on 80's for the UK market.... it is noticeable that the newer the vehicle the worse it gets .

If you look at it from Toyota's of view most people who buy a new LC are not bothered about rust because they will have sold it and replaced with hopefully another new one before even on current vehicles rust becomes a problem , and they probably save a £100 a unit on not doing a thorough job ... £100 x LC's sold = £10000's .

When someone employed by Toyota tells you that the older vehicles are built better and not to buy a 200 that counts for a lot .