Safety First

[frank rabbets]

I'm known to my friends as "mad Frank" because I've nearly killed myself several times due to no sense of self preservation. However being older now I can see potential pitfalls. I don't want to lecture people on how to support their L/C's when working on them but please use wide and short rather than long and tall axle stands and ensure that the weight is spread evenly over the top surface of the steel plate and not just on it's edge. I've had an axle stand shoot out like a bullet in such circumstances. Also chock the front and rear of at least 2 wheels if working on even a slight slope, and of course leave in gear with the handbrake on if possible. Before starting work rock the body about on the axle stands especially sideways just to get an idea of stability. I also reposition the jack lightly screwed back up by where I'll be as a precaution.

I've had a look on this sight for where best to post this to reach as many people as possible but can't decide. Perhaps the moderators could decide.

Frank

 

[Crispin]

Thanks Frank - I'll move the post to a section in a bit on how-to and safety etc.

My mom is a radiographer and as a kid I used to help out a lot with the patients she was X-raying. The number of people who have had a car fall on them because they were working under it while supported by one or more jacks is scary....No ramps / axle stands = no working under it. Simples.

 

[Chris]

Franks. Wise words and I couldn't agree more. I also prefer to use wood against steel. metal on metal is never good. I have also instructed my wife on how to use the jack. No, not so that she can lower the car onto my chest thank you very much, but so that she could perhaps save my life one day. I tend to put plates down on the floor too, to stop the stands digging into the drive and settling. I made myself some real heavy duty stands this year as well to replace the 30year old tin ones that I got out of a skip.

I tend to put one stand under first and get the weight onto that then put the other side under. If you drop onto both at the same time, they can actually slide apart. But better still, use wood which also gives you an audible warning if it's not happy. I try to keep my phone in my pocket too and get the wife to check regulalry on me. Although sometimes she forgets the cuppa that I ordered.

Chris

 

[Andrew Prince]

Couldn't agree more - 2 sources of support always

Another "obvious" one when working with a wheel off is to stick the wheel under the hub too. That way even if your jack and axle stand fail, the hub stops when it hits the rim/tyre. Your rim and disc might not look great afterwards but they'll be much better than your ribs or head would have been with your LC crushing you! :confusion-seeingstars:

 

[Crispin]

one or two pieces of wood Chris?

Sorry, some humour injection.

He did chock the wheels though, that's a good thing...

 

[Chris]

How many times have I asked you to stop taking pictures outside my house!!!!

C

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Chris

Steel on steel is not ideal. i have glued thick rubber to the tops of my 4 axle stands and also to their feet. I have 2 medium sized ones and 2 which are extra heavy duty and with a 15 inch circumference.

Frank

 

[Andy Harvey]

Just to add - based on personal experience when I got a flat tyre on my old Hilux Surf. Bottle jcaks are even more unstable than bad axle stands. If it is not absolutely flat chock both wheels on the oposite side and make sure the steering lock is on. My personal experience was in being on a slight slope, one wheel choked (the rear), rear offside wheel off the ground with the bottle jack (Toyota standard unit) under the axle so as to get enough height. Unluckily I hadn't taken the keys out of the ignition and the steering wheel turned as the vehcile slipped slightly down the slope which enabled the car to move more even though the rear wheel was chocked. Luckily I got out from under it (and had got the damaged wheel and tyre under the axle) otherwise I would have been flat not just the tyre. And all this on Boxing day too.

I now will much rather drive very slowly on a flat tyre until I find somewhere flat (even though it might ruin the rim beyond repair) rather than risk anything.

And to be honest I'd rather never use a bottle jack again unless it is bolted down to a nice thick sheet of steel and to be honest you might as well carry a trolley jack in that case.

 

[Graham]

and to be honest you might as well carry a trolley jack in that case.

Yup, for the extra weight of a trolly jack, my one always lives tied down in the rear.
OK< it's not a full size one, but sertainly better than most bottle jacks supplied as standard.

And also, like mentioned before, as soon as the wheel comes off, I slide it under neath just as a saftey.

Graham

 

[SimonD]

What ton rating is recommended per stand, and for a pair if using two? There seem to be 2,3,4,5,6. And what ton trolley jack is recommended?

 

[Andrew Prince]

Simon, bigger is better - obviously 20 tonne stands are overkill as the units get heavy and unwieldy, you stop using them because of this and resort to just a jack...and that's when it all comes crashing down on top of you.

I have 6 tonne axle stands, 8t hydraulic jack and the OEM Toyota bottle jack that I all use regularly. Another "problem" with cruisers is the amount of height you generally want. E.g. jacking an 80 on the chassis will probably mean lifting the chassis beyond the max height of normal car stands (i.e. the typical Halfords 2 tonners), so not only do you have the question of the design weight of the stands but also their stability and strength at their upper limit. That's why I got big beefy stands as they had a much higher max height than most of the "standard" stands.

IMHO the moderate extra cost of heavier duty stands and jacks is trivial compared to the discomfort of knowing that the 3 tonnes suspended above your head is relying on Halford's lowest cost supplier getting his sums right on a 2t stand. I figure that even if my 80s full 3+ tonnes are supported on the 6t stands, the stands have PLENTY of extra capacity in reserve Of course, you're usually only lifting one end, so not the full 3t.

To answer your question - I'd take 3t stands as a minimum and bigger if possible. Jack-wise go for upwards of 5t and make sure that its max lifting height is sufficient for your needs - trolly jacks usually have plenty of lift so less of an issue vs bottle/hydraulic jacks.

Cheers,

 

[Gav Peter]

I'd love to know what inspired this thread in the first place...

 

[frank rabbets]

Remember " wide and low" is the rule. If you choose equipment on this basis then check the load spec you will probably find there is plenty of safety margin.

I had a trolley jack collapse on me. It was fully extended and was well within capacity. It bent over sideways and was a right off. It was however tall and narrow!

Also remember jacks are only for lifting.Not supporting.

Frank

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

The slope of my drive adds some fun to this for me. I couldn't tell you how many times I've cursed because I put something down and it's slithered off to the middle of the road Fortunately most jobs are done with the wheels on, or no need to get under the truck when they're off, but I don't look forward to diff jobs that's for sure.

 

[Chris]

Yes, Gav. I wonder. Hmm. What could possibly have prompted a post about badly placed axle stands.

Guess we'll never know. Still, you're OK and that's the main thing. Oooops

C

 

[Gav Peter]

Moi!?! I'm shocked... Stable as fnck that lot was - no problems there buddy...

In fairness, I did do all the push & shove tests before going under the big boy - I don't fancy having anything like that drop on me - & it was all very stable but thanks for all the pointers... At least I didn't use my 'other' stands that Jon bollocked me about when I did my lift... They're looking for a new home in case anyone needs to jack their Micra (other small cars are available) up

I could have left him a bit lower really but once he was up there I just wanted to get on with things. I'm keeping an eye out for some larger stands & a meatier jack - I bought those before I got Muxley & Tonka when we had 'normal' cars...

Fair do's, onwards & upwards

 

[frank rabbets]

Remember " wide and low" is the rule. If you choose equipment on this basis then check the load spec you will probably find there is plenty of safety margin.

I had a trolley jack collapse on me. It was fully extended and was well within capacity. It bent over sideways and was a right off. It was however tall and narrow!

Also remember jacks are only for lifting.Not supporting.

Frank

That's write off ; sorry. [it was right off as well though].

 

[ajnabi]

What ton rating is recommended per stand, and for a pair if using two? There seem to be 2,3,4,5,6. And what ton trolley jack is recommended?

I had the same question, currently using 2 tonne stands and 3 tonne trolley jack with another 2 tonne trolley jack as extra.... as mentioned, ok for normal cars.. but ... food for thought.

IQ