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Sand Ladders

G

Guest

Guest
Hi Niall
I know that lots of South African use these flexible sand ladders with good
results.
We only got stuck three times on our trip.
Once at Wadi Rum -purely inexperience in soft sand at that point.
(Hard tyres and did not engage 4 x4 until way to late, and I never had the
electronic central diff lock switch at that point)
Once on a dune in the western desert and once on a beach in Namibia (same
place as the Long Way down fellows).
Having said this I really recommend a set of aluminium sand ladders.
Two vehicles I ran parallel with had these, and they are the best.
Graham
Bit of a connundrum re some kit for Africa
I've got a set of tank track type sand ladders - they are the flexible
ones about 1.5 meters long each. I got them cheap second hand a few
years back and have never used them.
Seen as I already have a set I was going to take them to Africa as
opposed to buying a set of waffle boards or sand ladders.....
I'm looking at the tracks and questioning there use compared to the
alternative..
Has anyone ever used the tank track type things? - I'm wondering if
they're the right man for the job......
Any learned insight appreciated - I won't know till I get there :)
--
Smith Family Odyssey
Web: http://www.sfo.me.uk/
E-mail: [Email address removed]
 
G

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Niall
I use two different types of sand ladders, the aluminium ones are much more
light-weight than their steel equivalent - don't go NEAR them! far too
heavy and far two expensive. I haven't tested out the carbon fibre/fibre
glass ones - I'm not sure why, maybe I think they won't do the job....Alu
ones; 1.5 metres long, about half a metre wide should do the trick.
Graham - so your trip was a little hairy in places! best way! those Namib
sands....get people every time!
On my first trip I was so afraid of deflating my tyres I got stuck all the
time - my mate eventually forced me to do it - never looked back since!
Happy hunting Niall
Cheers
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Graham Smith
Sent: 17 January 2008 11:38
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Sand Ladders
Hi Niall
I know that lots of South African use these flexible sand ladders with
good results.
We only got stuck three times on our trip.
Once at Wadi Rum -purely inexperience in soft sand at that point.
(Hard tyres and did not engage 4 x4 until way to late, and I never had the
electronic central diff lock switch at that point)
Once on a dune in the western desert and once on a beach in Namibia (same
place as the Long Way down fellows).
Having said this I really recommend a set of aluminium sand ladders.
Two vehicles I ran parallel with had these, and they are the best.
Graham
Bit of a connundrum re some kit for Africa
I've got a set of tank track type sand ladders - they are the flexible
ones about 1.5 meters long each. I got them cheap second hand a few
years back and have never used them.
Seen as I already have a set I was going to take them to Africa as
opposed to buying a set of waffle boards or sand ladders.....
I'm looking at the tracks and questioning there use compared to the
alternative..
Has anyone ever used the tank track type things? - I'm wondering if
they're the right man for the job......
Any learned insight appreciated - I won't know till I get there :)
--
Smith Family Odyssey
Web: http://www.sfo.me.uk/
E-mail: [Email address removed]
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Graham
Thanks for that.
The main drawback I see with them is that if its a bit rut or a hole
than with traditional ladders you'd be able to jack it up and slide
them in. The tank tracks mabey not so.
To hell with it - tank tracks it is! Prep budget tunning tight on
account of the new intercooler - more power much more important me
thinks!!
Ta
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hello Renate
Learded insight appreciated as always...
You make a good point - prep yourselof in advance of the sand and
you'll get through the majority of it
Not to mention keep the proverbia weight down !
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
Niall
Well if you will buy an intercooler!
If you do buy tank traks tell me how they perform, won't you?
BTW its "methinks" (1 word)
Cheers
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Niall __
Sent: 17 January 2008 13:03
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Sand Ladders
Hi Graham
Thanks for that.
The main drawback I see with them is that if its a bit rut or a hole
than with traditional ladders you'd be able to jack it up and slide
them in. The tank tracks mabey not so.
To hell with it - tank tracks it is! Prep budget tunning tight on
account of the new intercooler - more power much more important me
thinks!!
Ta
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
Niall,
Aren't the tank tracks the things to avoid since they easily roll up.
I still like the waffle board option because they can also double as a bridging device.
Having said that I do like the look of these: https://www.maxtrax.com.au/.
The key thing is you need something that will work in all conditions, not just sand.
Regards
Julian
Email: [Email address removed]
Mobile:=A0+44 (0)7971 540 362
 
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Julian
I see where you're coming from, but they only roll up one way .
idging device.
Agreed with you there
.
=A3185 a pair from Devon 4x4.....
Waffles are definetly the most universal
Begining to see now why I got the tracks I have cheap.
Tenner sais I'll never need them anyway!!
Thanks guys - food for thought there
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
Niall
Tenner sais I'll never need them anyway!!
If you do as Renate says, let down your tyres BEFORE you get into the soft
stuff, you will probably keep your tenner...
The dillema is how much:
A top South African 4x4 fellow says you can go down to 18psi in soft dunes.
I generally found that 25psi was fine. In the Sahara -I once got stuck when
the pressure was 45psi, just let the tyres down to 22psi and drove out... no
digging even.
Renate - I always have to push the limits, and doing that I
occasionally get stuck... for me it is all part of the adventure. Unlike the
LWdown fellows, when I felt I was getting stuck, I stopped. Got my lumps of
aluminium (they were not even flat sheets) and popped them down in a cleared
space, lowered tyre pressure and drove to the hard stuff. Took about 10 min.
The LWdown fellows were there for several hours....
Niall - Just remembered a really useful thing I saw and borrowed from a
German fellow. A short strap which can go through the holes in your wheel
rims then attach to high lift jack. So when you need to high lift- you only
lift the relevant wheel 3 -4 inches to get the mat under or clear the
central mound, and not lift the body 4 ft and still not get the wheel off
the ground.
--
Smith Family Odyssey
Web: http://www.sfo.me.uk/
E-mail: [Email address removed]
 
G

Guest

Guest
In challenge circles it is not uncommon to air down to 12-15 psi without
beadlocks on the wheels- BFG MTs will happily run that low without popping a
rim.
One of the best tricks I picked up was to attach quite a long piece of cord
from the rear recovery points to the sand latters you are using. When you
have got the sand ladders under the wheels you can get some speed up without
worrying about having to stop to collect the ladders. As long as your cord
is long enough you can go quite some distance like this as the ladders will
follow your tire tracks.
A slightly different way of reducing the lifting required with a highlift
(as the wheel adaptors can be a little fiddly for me) is to install a check
strap. This just clips on from the spring turret to the axle and stops the
axle articulating downwards and thus allows you to jack from any jacking
points- if you check strap both rear wheels then you can high lift from the
centre of the vehicle and do both wheels at the same time.
has anyone used the inflatable bags which you fill up using exhaust
pressure- I've seen them used a couple of times but never sued them myself.
Any experience?
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Graham Smith
Sent: 18 January 2008 09:37
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Sand Ladders
Niall
Tenner sais I'll never need them anyway!!
If you do as Renate says, let down your tyres BEFORE you get into the soft
stuff, you will probably keep your tenner...
The dillema is how much:
A top South African 4x4 fellow says you can go down to 18psi in soft dunes.
I generally found that 25psi was fine. In the Sahara -I once got stuck when
the pressure was 45psi, just let the tyres down to 22psi and drove out... no
digging even.
Renate - I always have to push the limits, and doing that I
occasionally get stuck... for me it is all part of the adventure. Unlike the
LWdown fellows, when I felt I was getting stuck, I stopped. Got my lumps of
aluminium (they were not even flat sheets) and popped them down in a cleared
space, lowered tyre pressure and drove to the hard stuff. Took about 10 min.
The LWdown fellows were there for several hours....
Niall - Just remembered a really useful thing I saw and borrowed from a
German fellow. A short strap which can go through the holes in your wheel
rims then attach to high lift jack. So when you need to high lift- you only
lift the relevant wheel 3 -4 inches to get the mat under or clear the
central mound, and not lift the body 4 ft and still not get the wheel off
the ground.
--
Smith Family Odyssey
Web: http://www.sfo.me.uk/
E-mail: [Email address removed]
 
G

Guest

Guest
I have one but I am unable to use it on the Cruiser yet, the end of my
exhaust is angled and won't accept the tube to the air jack so I need to cut
it off straight. I have used one on a saloon car and it works a treat,
although it wasn't as heavy as a Cruiser I don't see why it would not work
on a heavy vehicle.
TTFN
Chas
London UK '94 1HDT 80 Auto, 110000+ miles, Safari snorkel, Custom Winch
bumper & winch, + Ray Dadd Rocksliders
----- Original Message -----
From: "james Pugh" <[Email address removed]>
To: <[Email address removed]>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Sand Ladders
 
G

Guest

Guest
Graham
Interesting. Noted. Thanks
Valid point and possibly a usefull tool. Will have to do a course in
safety and HLJ before I go - never used one..... gulp
Cheers
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
Howsy James
Saw that on Ray Mayers survival show!! - He was in Australia - hilarious
If you can get in at the axel to put it on then sounds good. Likewise
with gragams wheel adaptor - might be difficult to get them on when in
a rut
Yes - I have one and used it on a mates Pajero - bent the hell out of
his undercarrage protection. Was brilliant at getting me out of the
bog during the summer - a great piece of kit in my opinion.
Cheers
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
niall
make sure you buy a genuine hi-lift and not a copy as they won't handle a
fully loaded vehicle circa 3500kg. the first hi-lift copy i had was a
blackrat from oz - the main h beam bent when changing a wheel in tz - not a
banana but enough to worry me. the second was a farm-jack: the ratchet
system went and although you could jack the vehicle up it too a very long
screw driver and a mallet to get it down and then it would just drop! so on
my last trip i had some jacking points made up ala arb jacking adaptor and
had them welded onto the front bumper and rear tow bar - made changing a
wheel an absolute doddle.
sometimes the down "pin" doesn't seat properly (this happened with the farm
jack) and i had to jump back as i lost control of the lever arm as it
flapped its way down. get hit by that arm with 3.5 tons of car behind it and
you'll know about it.
with the airjack i found i had to use a verl large circlip thingy (flat
metal, screw it up to tighten etc) to hold the hose onto the exhaust.
jeremy "--" --
www.--
home: +44 (0) 1273 683 993
mobile: +44 (0) 7878 010 352
skype name:
-----original message-----
from: [email address removed] [mailto:[email address removed]] on
behalf of niall __
sent: 18 january 2008 11:08
to: [email address removed]
subject: re: [elco] sand ladders
graham
interesting. noted. thanks
valid point and possibly a usefull tool. will have to do a course in
safety and hlj before i go - never used one..... gulp
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09:01
 
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Guest

Guest
Niall
I have 2 alloy sand ladders - they live permanently on my roof rack as it
keeps them out of the way, mounted and bolted left-to-right, towards the
back. I've never used them in sand, always managed by dropping tyre pressure
and digging.
I've used the sand ladders twice in the UK. We got seriously bogged down in
muddy silt on the Norfolk coast last year - I foolishly didn't keep one axle
on the solid stuff and the car just sank in. With the tide coming in, Sarah
went off to find help and I started digging to try and put the ladders under
the wheels. I almost made it but just as I was about to make my one last
effort, a crab fisherman in his very old Land Rover came along and helped me
out.
Other than that, I've used them in the garden as an ally path for the
wheelbarrow when building stuff.
FWIW
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jeremy!
Your back!
Thanks a mill for that contact in Tanzania - my buddy's hooked up with
that mob for a safari.
Re HLJ - Original all the way!!
Good idea - you can easily get a lungfull trying to hold it on.
Niall
 
G

Guest

Guest
On 18/1/08 11:38, "Niall __" <[Email address removed]> wrote:
No no no! They've been very useful - in my garden!
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
G

Guest

Guest
i also have to alu sand ladders - 1.2m i think. they usually sit on hooks
covering the rear windows - easy to lift on and off when needed and then
just a small chain and padlock secures them around town. however they do
make good tables when used in conjunction with two jerris - as long as they
are not bent to severely.
jeremy "--" --
www.--
home: +44 (0) 1273 683 993
mobile: +44 (0) 7878 010 352
skype name:
-----original message-----
from: [email address removed] [mailto:[email address removed]] on
behalf of niall __
sent: 18 january 2008 11:39
to: [email address removed]
subject: re: [elco] sand ladders
jeremy
you win a prize in the useless kit comp!! :)
niall

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checked by avg free edition.
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G

Guest

Guest
--
exactamon!
renate
-----original message-----
from: [email address removed] [mailto:[email address removed]]on
behalf of
sent: 18 january 2008 11:52
to: [email address removed]
subject: re: [elco] sand ladders
i also have to alu sand ladders - 1.2m i think. they usually sit on hooks
covering the rear windows - easy to lift on and off when needed and then
just a small chain and padlock secures them around town. however they do
make good tables when used in conjunction with two jerris - as long as they
are not bent to severely.
jeremy "--" --
www.--
home: +44 (0) 1273 683 993
mobile: +44 (0) 7878 010 352
skype name:
-----original message-----
from: [email address removed] [mailto:[email address removed]] on
behalf of niall __
sent: 18 january 2008 11:39
to: [email address removed]
subject: re: [elco] sand ladders
jeremy
you win a prize in the useless kit comp!! :)
niall

no virus found in this incoming message.
checked by avg free edition.
version: 7.5.516 / virus database: 269.19.5/1228 - release date: 16/01/2008
09:01
no virus found in this outgoing message.
checked by avg free edition.
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09:01
 
G

Guest

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Niall
Yeah, make sure of this, tie a bit of strong rope to them and they'll trawl
after you until you can get to a firmer bit - took my BFGs down to I think
20-19 at one stage, my mate said I could put them down lower - but I wasn't
entirely convinced, but hey! after lots of bog-downs, I thought, what the
hell! so they went down to a little more - didn't dare go further down then
this, and I didn't even dare look at the pressures - made the job of
'sanding' so much easier.
My main problem is that one year there was a guy who said, "no problem! I
can drive the dunes in your vehicle (for a test run, 'cos he was jealous)
for you", I said, "okay", knowing he' get stuck straight away - and he did,
but he didn't stop straight away he kept revving (showing off I guess - NB
he wasn't Bedu or Tuareg...). From that moment on he never did get back
into my vehicle; he left it up to me, naturally, since I was pretty good at
duning by that stage.
My mate on another trip wanted a go and got a bit scared because he'd never
driven a Toyo before, just landies. I think maybe the power of it shocked
him, but he did enjoy the experience (I didn't enjoy his landy though...).
And another thing - if you're a wee bit overwight it does wonders for your
stamina, strength and weightloss....
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Graham Smith
Sent: 18 January 2008 09:37
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] Sand Ladders
Niall
Tenner sais I'll never need them anyway!!
If you do as Renate says, let down your tyres BEFORE you get into the soft
stuff, you will probably keep your tenner...
The dillema is how much:
A top South African 4x4 fellow says you can go down to 18psi in soft
dunes.
I generally found that 25psi was fine. In the Sahara -I once got stuck
when
the pressure was 45psi, just let the tyres down to 22psi and drove out...
no
digging even.
Renate - I always have to push the limits, and doing that I
occasionally get stuck... for me it is all part of the adventure. Unlike
the
LWdown fellows, when I felt I was getting stuck, I stopped. Got my lumps
of
aluminium (they were not even flat sheets) and popped them down in a
cleared
space, lowered tyre pressure and drove to the hard stuff. Took about 10
min.
The LWdown fellows were there for several hours....
Niall - Just remembered a really useful thing I saw and borrowed from a
German fellow. A short strap which can go through the holes in your wheel
rims then attach to high lift jack. So when you need to high lift- you
only
lift the relevant wheel 3 -4 inches to get the mat under or clear the
central mound, and not lift the body 4 ft and still not get the wheel off
the ground.
--
Smith Family Odyssey
Web: http://www.sfo.me.uk/
E-mail: [Email address removed]
 
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