Thrust Bearing Washer wear

[BlackBetty]

Whilst on the return leg from our trip to the Pyranees I notice a quite ticking noise. Not knowing what it was and it being very quiet I thouught I would wait and see if it got any worse. Needless to say after a week I noticed that the noise was indeed getting more prevelant. What I also noticed it was more so when I pushed the clutch in. Immediately I thought it was something to do with the new clutch I had installed just prior to doing the trip. I took her back to the garage and they dropped the gear box but could not find anything wrong with the new clutch. They then started looking further and noticed that the forward and backwards lateral movement on the crankshaft and the assumption was made that it may be the thrust bearing washer that may be a problem. They then removed the engine and opened her up and the first sign that something serious maybe wrong was when they dropped the sump and found the thrust bearing washer laying loose in the sump.

As you can see the weat on the one side was excessive to say the least. On the other side the wear was hardly noticeable but what was obvious was that they had fallen out due to the excessive wear of the opposite pair. They had actually come completely out and got caught up in the crankshaft rotation.

The main bearing journals had also sustained some damage as you can see.

The interesting thing was that the damage was only on the one side whilst the other side was completely undamaged.

The damage was similar on the main block to

I also checked the bearing cups and noticed that the wear on them was excessive

Now the question is? is there anyone that you could recommend that could do the CNC engineering to get my girl back on the road. I do belive that with the right engineering we should beable to save the engine.

I would be open to comments and suggestions.

Thanks

For those that wanted details my car is,

FJ100
GCC spec
4500 efi
1FZ-FE
with a manual gearbox

 

[Paul]

Can you post the details of your truck please.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

ouch Those shells look like they've been to hell and back. What condition is the crank in?

 

[BlackBetty]

Surprisingly the crank is in perfect condition with no marking on them at all.
To be honest it does not even look like the cranck bearings need a polish even though I would insist on doing it to make 100% sure.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

It's hard to be sure from the pictures but is it just the surrounding casting that's scored and looking nasty, is the actual thrust bearing surface on the block damaged?

 

[Rob]

Does the thrust bearing stop axial movement in the crank shaft? If it does then you need to examine what surfaces on the block have rubbed, if they where not machined or machined to be in clearance then you could just replace bearings and big ends/conrods and put it back together after a good flush of the engine. If the surfaces are crucial for the axial alinement of the crank then you will most probably need to machine some shims and the the block to acceptable surface finishes. Looks like you can order 0.250mm oversize thrust washers according to toyodiy. Bear in mind that thinner wall sections will reduce the stiffness and strength of the block, especially around the crankshaft bearings, which could lead to various failures.

Also I have never rebuilt an engine and don't exactly know how it all goes together.

How many miles/kms has it got on it? Also how much more power was it developing over stock configuration?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Does the thrust bearing stop axial movement in the crank shaft?

Yes. The thrust washers are static with respect to the block until they came out of place so their seat on the block may have escaped damage, in which case my thoughts were carefuly clean up that shoulder, fit appropriate size washers and once that size has been established glue that one to the block to negate the presumably reduced thickness of that shoulder. I would replace the cap though unless that has only shallow surface damage.

 

[Rob]

What do you mean by cap Jon?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

What do you mean by cap Jon?

that's what Toyota call a main bearing cap As it's an easily replaced part, unless the damage we see is the full extent of the wear it might as well be replaced with new.

 

[Charlie]

My question would be.
What has caused this failure, unfortunately you will never know if the crank had end float before the gearbox was removed.

 

[Rob]

I think I now understand what was going on. The thrust washer failed meaning the crank had some axial play which resulted in the crank rubbing against the block and main baring cap. No need to change the conrods and big ends in this case.

The case, well the thrust bearing must have come out somehow, either it wore thin or the bearing seat wore away. Why? Its not obvious, difficult to say until we how much power the engine was developing after all those mods Erik.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Seeing the state of the shells I'd wonder about oil pressure, oil quality and total miles to this point? No sign of oil channels on whats left of the thrust washers did they wear away and then insufficient lubrication did the rest?

 

[BlackBetty]

All the mods did have an increase in power but to be honest I can't tell yuo exactly how much it was as it was never dyno tested. Which in hind sight I should have done even if it was just for my own curiosity.

The oil level has always been checked and I check religeously. It could be down to a different type of oild used when they serviced my car but cant be sure. I think that the sport clutch could have contributed to the wear but again I can't be sure.

The seat does have damage on it but I do believe that it can be saved.

I have in the meantime sourced and aquired a 4.5 1FZ-FE engine so I will be taking the head of my engine and taking the block and sub assembly from this second engineand marry the two together and hopefully get a good working engine out of the two.

So fingers crossed I can get her back on the road soon enough.

 

[BRE Fabrications LTD]

There are plenty of guys on mud running these motors supercharged without any ill effects, so I can't imagine it is a power issue.

You did mention you had a new clutch installed prior to you France trip. Any chance when they dropped the box to fit the new clutch they could have done something that may have brought this on? Things tend not to just break, there had to something that caused it.... Just a thought...

What are you going to do with the head off of the motor you sourced?

 

[Charlie]

You did mention you had a new clutch installed prior to you France trip. Any chance when they dropped the box to fit the new clutch they could have done something that may have brought this on? Things tend not to just break, there had to something that caused it.... Just a thought...

Ryan, that’s what I was kinda hinting at with crankshaft end-float.

 

[frank rabbets]

The thrust bearing takes thrust whenever the clutch pedal is depressed. If the clutch does not fully release then oil is squeezed out of the bearing faces and all of a sudden failure. You might not be aware the clutch is not releasing properly as it only takes small amount of pressure to squeeze the oil out [as in the first designed hydraulic cam flowers and common failure]. Even a heavy leg resting on the clutch pedal can be enough. After clutch installation, or at any time, it is easy to measure the play with a lever on the front crankshaft moving the crank back and forth. Usually play is visible but if not a dial gauge can be used. I hav'nt checked the manual but 8-15 thou would be OK I guess. Sometimes wrong sized thrust bearings are used but if the engine has'nt been apart........... I assume there was oil and oil pressure?

Frank

 

[frank rabbets]

P.S. After fitting a new clutch it is vital to check the pushrod between the slave cylinder piston and clutch release fork. With an adjustable design the pushrod should be loose with a gap the size stated in the manual. With a self adjusting design the pushrod will be held firm but it should be possiblt to spin it round and also press it up into the slave cylinder so it is loose with a gap. The spring inside the system returns it to the correct position after you let it go. I suspect something happened with the new clutch parts. You might find out what was wrong if you assemble the French clutch on your new motor and check the pushrod and crankshaft gap.

Frank