- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,514
Trump told his followers that the best remedy for a bad man with a gun was a good man with a gun. Following another mas shooting involving one mad man versus dozens of good men it does'nt seem to work.
Don't like the adverts? Click here to remove them
Trumps guns.
- Thread starter frank rabbets
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2012
- Messages
- 2,739
- Country Flag
I know. Something needs to be done. I have several guns, but each is regulated and I have to use the range at least 3 times a year for a 'control'. My doctor has to sign my card every year, which is renewed each September. You are obliged to go to the AGM. Each weapon is 'approved' and you can have up to 5. .22 ammo is unlimited, everything else is 1000 per year max...unless you make your own.
The Police / Gendarmes check me, my secure storage, and even ask the misses questions about me.. (am I mad was one) They can spot check me/guns at any time. Its not difficult to get guns, you have to apply for a permit for each one before you buy one.
Cant be that difficult to do similar in US?
The Police / Gendarmes check me, my secure storage, and even ask the misses questions about me.. (am I mad was one) They can spot check me/guns at any time. Its not difficult to get guns, you have to apply for a permit for each one before you buy one.
Cant be that difficult to do similar in US?
It’s not guns that kill people, it’s people that kill people. There’s good and bad to both sides of the argument on whether or not to allow guns. I’ve heard that America was ruled out for invasion (can’t remember who by) due to its gun laws. It does seem very lax but it’s a big country with lots of people from very diverse backgrounds. Any shooting like this is very sad and regrettable and has to promote a reaction. I wonder how many people are killed each year on the roads compared to those killed by guns (many of which are due to accidental discharge towards the operator)?
Mojo
Member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2015
- Messages
- 181
- Country Flag
Social media is awash with 'prayers and thoughts' to those who have died during latest school shooting incident, along with all the usual rhetoric from both sides of the second amendment justification.
I guess you either ban guns outright or make sure everyone carries a gun (bit like the seat belt law)..there is no middle ground in the US as that involves political decision making. I wonder how the rest of the world looks at the USA now..or if anyone really cares as to what goes on socially (its not as though it affects any of us, other than emotionally) ?
I guess you either ban guns outright or make sure everyone carries a gun (bit like the seat belt law)..there is no middle ground in the US as that involves political decision making. I wonder how the rest of the world looks at the USA now..or if anyone really cares as to what goes on socially (its not as though it affects any of us, other than emotionally) ?
I guess one has to ask, would an outright ban on guns prevent people singular, plural or en mass being shot? Personally I think the answer is no as if somebody really wants to shoot somebody they will. Will it stop the ability to shoot someone by somebody with a grievance and a bad cloud above their heads, probably in most cases. Automatic weapons, no, they aren’t necessary for personal defence. But then it’s far more difficult concealing an automatic weapon about ones person. A realistic ban would be on automatic weapons that fire 8 rounds or more. I haven’t read up on this shooting so I don’t know what was involved.
Thoughts with the families and loved ones as always.
Thoughts with the families and loved ones as always.
Don't like the adverts? Click here to remove them
Bert
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2016
- Messages
- 449
- Country Flag
Gun ownership is always one of those debates that can get completely out of control.
I own a firearm, and I am subject to checks and conditions very similar to those that Froggy Steve has to undergo. It is terrible when people are gunned down for absolutely no reason other than the perpetrator is angry or pissed off about something and goes on a spree. However, people saying that all guns should be banned are a little naïve in my opinion, and I will staunchly back my chosen interest in shooting and owning firearms, and I have lobbied our own government about its recent flawed proposals to increase further restrictions. The EU is also trying to strip citizens of their firearms under the guise of preventing terrorism, but that’s another story.
It seems that people think that banning something makes the problem go away, but it does not. Murder is, for want of a better word, banned, yet it goes on every single day, where the penalty for murder in some countries is death, yet this does not deter people from murdering. Prostitution is ‘banned’ in many countries, but it does not stop it. Drinking in many cultures is banned, again flouted by those who can or choose to. Handgun ownership is largely banned within the UK, since 1996 if memory serves, yet incidences involving handgun crime in the UK is rising year in, year out. The criminals don’t give a hoot for the law.
I am all for private gun ownership, but I believe that the US does need to readdress the situation, with stricter controls on how licenses are issued, and how firearms are stored within the home. This is a debate that they need to have. Automatic firearms should be left as is, nor do I agree with the arguments about magazine capacity. Starcruiser makes a good point about car accidents. Hundreds of thousands of people are killed every year in traffic accidents. However, it always strikes me as a little amusing that as long as the death rate is spaced out over a period of time, then people generally accept it. For instance, if 17, 25, 35 or more people are killed in one off incidents on our roads daily, there would be public outcry demanding things are changed somehow, but it seems acceptable that thousands can die over a long period with not much said. No one is calling for vehicles to be banned. Thousands of people are killed every year in stabbings; there has been a spate of them in the UK this year alone The knife crime situation in the UK is bad, and some knives are banned, but it does not stop the killing nor does it prevent people from getting hold of such ‘weapons’. Ban the so called ‘zombie’ knives, and they’ll just use a 14 inch kitchen knife. Having said that, a 3 inch knife will kill you just as dead as the 14 inch one. Banning shit simply does not work. If someone wants to go on a spree, if they can’t get a gun, they’ll use a truck, or a chainsaw, or something.
I do get passionate about the things I enjoy, yet all of my chosen pursuits are under pressure from one group or another. Shooting is one, rough or wild camping another, and of course green laning or off road driving. All of them are frowned upon by many people and many want to stop people like me, and you, from being able to enjoy ourselves responsibly.
It is a tragic loss of life of those shot yesterday, and I can’t imagine what the parents are going through looking at now empty bedrooms. But like Brexit, the debate on lawful gun ownership is one that will go on forever, those for, those against. I am for, and shall remain so.
I believe that it is time for a cup of tea.
I own a firearm, and I am subject to checks and conditions very similar to those that Froggy Steve has to undergo. It is terrible when people are gunned down for absolutely no reason other than the perpetrator is angry or pissed off about something and goes on a spree. However, people saying that all guns should be banned are a little naïve in my opinion, and I will staunchly back my chosen interest in shooting and owning firearms, and I have lobbied our own government about its recent flawed proposals to increase further restrictions. The EU is also trying to strip citizens of their firearms under the guise of preventing terrorism, but that’s another story.
It seems that people think that banning something makes the problem go away, but it does not. Murder is, for want of a better word, banned, yet it goes on every single day, where the penalty for murder in some countries is death, yet this does not deter people from murdering. Prostitution is ‘banned’ in many countries, but it does not stop it. Drinking in many cultures is banned, again flouted by those who can or choose to. Handgun ownership is largely banned within the UK, since 1996 if memory serves, yet incidences involving handgun crime in the UK is rising year in, year out. The criminals don’t give a hoot for the law.
I am all for private gun ownership, but I believe that the US does need to readdress the situation, with stricter controls on how licenses are issued, and how firearms are stored within the home. This is a debate that they need to have. Automatic firearms should be left as is, nor do I agree with the arguments about magazine capacity. Starcruiser makes a good point about car accidents. Hundreds of thousands of people are killed every year in traffic accidents. However, it always strikes me as a little amusing that as long as the death rate is spaced out over a period of time, then people generally accept it. For instance, if 17, 25, 35 or more people are killed in one off incidents on our roads daily, there would be public outcry demanding things are changed somehow, but it seems acceptable that thousands can die over a long period with not much said. No one is calling for vehicles to be banned. Thousands of people are killed every year in stabbings; there has been a spate of them in the UK this year alone The knife crime situation in the UK is bad, and some knives are banned, but it does not stop the killing nor does it prevent people from getting hold of such ‘weapons’. Ban the so called ‘zombie’ knives, and they’ll just use a 14 inch kitchen knife. Having said that, a 3 inch knife will kill you just as dead as the 14 inch one. Banning shit simply does not work. If someone wants to go on a spree, if they can’t get a gun, they’ll use a truck, or a chainsaw, or something.
I do get passionate about the things I enjoy, yet all of my chosen pursuits are under pressure from one group or another. Shooting is one, rough or wild camping another, and of course green laning or off road driving. All of them are frowned upon by many people and many want to stop people like me, and you, from being able to enjoy ourselves responsibly.
It is a tragic loss of life of those shot yesterday, and I can’t imagine what the parents are going through looking at now empty bedrooms. But like Brexit, the debate on lawful gun ownership is one that will go on forever, those for, those against. I am for, and shall remain so.
I believe that it is time for a cup of tea.
moggy1968
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2013
- Messages
- 2,938
The Australian example clearly demonstrated that introducing stricter gun control works. You don't have to ban them outright, just have tighter control. When was the last mass shooting in the UK? When was the last mass shooting in Australia? In the states they average one a day, so far this year, there have been 30. More people have died of gun violence in the states between 1968 and 2011 than in all the wars America has ever fought.
The biggest issue America will have introducing gun control now is that because the place is awash with guns it's going to be difficult persuading people to give theirs up because there are so many out there in the criminal fraternity. There is a cultural belief that you have to carry a gun to be safe, anywhere.
On a post on what equipment to take on the trail on an overlanders forum, populated mostly by Americans, a handgun was suggested. Now I can understand someone maybe wanting to take a hunting rifle (not that going out to enjoy nature and kill things is really my bag) but a handgun, really? Well, suggesting that was unnecessary released a torrent of NRA style abuse!! Apparently, carrying a handgun when you go out to the wilderness is an essential to protect yourself against smack heads and other bad guys. When anyone suggests they are going to travel in Europe or Africa, the response is the same, take a gun.
There are other countries with large levels of gun ownership though that don't suffer so much violence. There is a fundamental problem with the American psyche (as a nation, not individuals). They seem to have major and significant issues with the whole structure of their social morality and behaviour. Most of the extremes of most facets of life can be found in America.
I had a 'discussion' with an American a little while ago who suggested it was hypocritical of an English person to criticise America when England was more dangerous than South Africa. Americans are obsessed about the threat of terrorism and often throw that back at the UK and our 'shariah state', yet in 2015 653 times more people died from guns than terrorism in the US. Their sense of reality and perception of risk is entirely skewed.
In the US in 2015 35485 people died in motor vehicle accidents compared to 13286 dying from guns (not including suicide) so it is certainly true that more people die in MV accidents than from guns, but thats a weak argument in favour of keeping a range of guns which are entirely unsuitable for self defence or hunting and the distribution of which is inadequately controlled. It is worth noting that in 2015 the UK suffered 1732 road deaths on our considerably busier and more congested roads. So the US has around 5 times the population of the UK but suffered over 20 times the number of deaths in MV accidents. Maybe that links in with what I said above about a fundamental issue with the psyche? If their road deaths rate was the same as the UK then considerably less people would die in MV accidents each year compared to deaths from guns.
Does this matter to us, well, what comes to America usually comes here a few years later unfortunately.
Can we do much about it? only in our own society. Change in America has to come from Americans, and I can't see that happening, if they haven't got it by now, they never will.
The biggest issue America will have introducing gun control now is that because the place is awash with guns it's going to be difficult persuading people to give theirs up because there are so many out there in the criminal fraternity. There is a cultural belief that you have to carry a gun to be safe, anywhere.
On a post on what equipment to take on the trail on an overlanders forum, populated mostly by Americans, a handgun was suggested. Now I can understand someone maybe wanting to take a hunting rifle (not that going out to enjoy nature and kill things is really my bag) but a handgun, really? Well, suggesting that was unnecessary released a torrent of NRA style abuse!! Apparently, carrying a handgun when you go out to the wilderness is an essential to protect yourself against smack heads and other bad guys. When anyone suggests they are going to travel in Europe or Africa, the response is the same, take a gun.
There are other countries with large levels of gun ownership though that don't suffer so much violence. There is a fundamental problem with the American psyche (as a nation, not individuals). They seem to have major and significant issues with the whole structure of their social morality and behaviour. Most of the extremes of most facets of life can be found in America.
I had a 'discussion' with an American a little while ago who suggested it was hypocritical of an English person to criticise America when England was more dangerous than South Africa. Americans are obsessed about the threat of terrorism and often throw that back at the UK and our 'shariah state', yet in 2015 653 times more people died from guns than terrorism in the US. Their sense of reality and perception of risk is entirely skewed.
In the US in 2015 35485 people died in motor vehicle accidents compared to 13286 dying from guns (not including suicide) so it is certainly true that more people die in MV accidents than from guns, but thats a weak argument in favour of keeping a range of guns which are entirely unsuitable for self defence or hunting and the distribution of which is inadequately controlled. It is worth noting that in 2015 the UK suffered 1732 road deaths on our considerably busier and more congested roads. So the US has around 5 times the population of the UK but suffered over 20 times the number of deaths in MV accidents. Maybe that links in with what I said above about a fundamental issue with the psyche? If their road deaths rate was the same as the UK then considerably less people would die in MV accidents each year compared to deaths from guns.
Does this matter to us, well, what comes to America usually comes here a few years later unfortunately.
Can we do much about it? only in our own society. Change in America has to come from Americans, and I can't see that happening, if they haven't got it by now, they never will.
Last edited:
They are strange folk those Americans, Oh! a dash of milk and one sugar please Bert.
No sugar in mine Bert. I own, let's just say, a lot of firearms and I did have a good deal more prior to the prohibition on handguns. So I'm not about to launch into a deep discussion on this. But one thing I would say is that this isn't about stricter controls; it's about the RIGHT controls. But when has any government exercised reasoned judgement based on all the facts?
moggy1968
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2013
- Messages
- 2,938
I'm guessing though none of those are assault rifles, or fully automatic weapons?
I'm guessing you don't have, for example, a .50cal sniper rifle?
The absence of handguns is also significant.
I'm also guessing you have to jump through quite a lot of hoops to get those licensed and to keep them?
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,514
There isn't partial ban on hand guns in UK it's a total ban apart from police and armed forces. That's thanks to the Dunblane nutter. Unfortunately he was a member of a club and had the correct paperwork so every other legitimate person suffered.
Bert
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2016
- Messages
- 449
- Country Flag
One is allowed to own a .50 cal sniper rifle in the UK, if one can afford to feed it!
.22 handguns are allowed in the UK, as long as they have the extended barrel, and the broomstick attachment. Cause this makes them safer
It is worth noting that the Dunblane incident could have been averted if the police had acted upon information given to them that the guy was a bit odd. Allegedly, several officers knew of his mental state, and this information had been sent up the ladder on more than one occasion over a period of time, but he still had his license renewed. I understand that the chief constable was deemed to have acted unlawfully in issuing it. But this is all too late for the rest of us in the shooting community.
One thing that always cracks me up, is when people say that 'militaristic style' weapons should be banned!
Personally, I would love to own a semi auto in 5.56, but alas not allowed to.
Just for a bit of back round, I have been trained in the use of firearms, starting on the trusty .303 Enfield, the even trustier SLR, the GPMG, and the SA80 as it is referred to. I grew up around guns, tanks etc. (army brat), and have always 'been into' guns and the like. I enjoy shooting.
More tea vicar?
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,514
When I was at school and 9 years old I swapped my stamp album for a clip from a pistol I assume. It had 8 bullets in it, copper coated with brass cartridges. I guess they were about 10 mm in size. I think my dad thought they were training rounds as he was quite happy with it until I pushed one vertically into a crack in the crazy paving and then hit it with a six inch nail and hammer. There was a slight crack and the cartridge flew up but I don't think the main charge went off. Don't they have to be in a barrel ? What gun might it have been from? Full at 8 bullets. I assume my friends dad separated the clip from the gun as he never got his hands on the main event.
I'm guessing though none of those are assault rifles, or fully automatic weapons?
I'm guessing you don't have, for example, a .50cal sniper rifle?
The absence of handguns is also significant.
Errm, I think I'll take the fifth on that if I may.
I'm guessing you don't have, for example, a .50cal sniper rifle?
The absence of handguns is also significant.
Errm, I think I'll take the fifth on that if I may.
Mmmm,
.22 - check
Extended barrels - check
Broomstick attachment (what?) -check...
Free to go Mr J...
I don’t think they shoot chickens Nick
