VSC causing me to get stuck!!!

[Tim Robinson]

Hello all.

Can you help.

I have got stuck twice when I have taken my LC5 (auto)off road in a muddy field.

The problem is as soon as my car sense any wheel slip the VSC light comes with a clicking noise coming from under the dashboard. As a result there is a loss of power causing the car to stop even tho I have my foot on the accelerator.

This also occurs when I carrying out a three point turn switching from R into D on a steep hill. The VSC comes on with a loss of power on tarmac but none of the 4 wheels are skidding.

I have taken it into West Riding Toyota in Huddersfield. They put the car on their diagnostic machine but no fault codes came up. They say I need to select low ratio and put the diff lock on to override the VSC! Do I really need to do this in a couple of inches of mud!!!! I find this a little concerning as this motor is the "king of off road"...surely I do not have to resort to diff locks and low ratio everytime I want to go off road.

I take the advice from my Toyota dealership with a pinch of salt as they state the car is NOT a permanent 4 wheel drive. To engage 4x4 I need to select low ratio.....can anyone out there confirm if this is case or not.
I thought this car was permanent 4 wheel drive.

Has anyone experienced a loss of power and clicking noise (similar to an electronic relay) when going off road.

I am taking to Pentagon Toyota in Sheffield on Friday (25th Feb 2011) for a second opinion.

It would be great to have a few more facts before then.

Thanks

Tim

 

[Trevor]

Question:- What tyres are you running on? Road Tyres (Dunlops maybe) or All Terrain (ATs).

The Cruiser IS permanent 4WD and the VSC is the active electronics that shifts power to the non slipping wheel on the axle. All this is great if you are getting grip from the tyres but road tyres in the sticky stuff might mean that with all the 4WD trickery in the world, no grip is still no grip. To my knowledge, low range is just low range still in 4WD mode and the centre diff will pass power to the front axle if both wheels are slipping on the rear and vice versa.

I changed from the Dunlop road tyres to the General Grabber AT2 All Terrain tyre, still handles as before on the tarmac but gives me much better grip and capability in the snow and average mud. For really muddy conditions some people will use Mud Terrain tyres (MT's) but these are a bit poo on tarmac.

The VSC, centre diff lock and low range on mine work well with the AT tyre for me, I am probably 80% on road and 20% off road in terms of useage. I can get places now that I couldn't on the road tyres.

This doesn't quite explain why your tyres are slipping on tarmac, unless you have no tread in the wet or mud on tarmac? Is the camber way out of true and you are riding on the inside edge of the tyre?

I'm sure someone else will be along shortly with their thoughts.

 

[Gary Stockton]

To turn VSC off, lock the centre diff. (button on centre console). This will help. So will proper tyres in a muddy field.

However, this also sounds like maybe the yaw sensor is out of whack. There is any easy fix in the FSM I'll look up for you tonight.

Also make sure your ABS sensors are ok ...

Cheers

Gary

 

[Crispin]

if VSC is coming on when one wheel looses traction it is doing what it should. The loss of power is also correct as it is backing off on the throttle to reduce power.

Does your ABS still work? If you have a dodgy sensor then it may think something is happening to the wheels when it is not.

When doing a 3 point turn, are your wheels at full lock? If you give it enough well to cause the outside wheel to spin slightly then it may think that VSC is needed.

Do the 3 point turn with someone watching the wheel - does it spin (you might not be able to tell from your seat)

Don't try the turn though with the CD locked - the drive train will not appreciate it.

I have got stuck twice when I have taken my LC5 (auto)off road in a muddy field.

and? you can't beat physics - having all the bells and whistles, you will still get stuck.
As Trevor hinted, you might get stuck less often with decent tyres but stuck you shall still get.

The clicking noises is also normal as is a very hard brake pedal while happening. It's VSC stopping the spinning wheel. Don't worry about.


King of off road it may be but things like diff locks are what makes it good. They are required tools for 4 wheels traction.

[strike:6p9dhhtz]So, all in all, there is nothing wrong with your LC [/strike:6p9dhhtz]

Gary beat me to it - forgot to mention the ABS sensors but I would have expected them to have created some error codes...

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

VSC is not traction control, unless it's all badged differently on a 120? ATRAC is the thing that should kick in when you're losing traction driving forwards and VSC kicks in when you're doing donuts and it wants to make you stop

 

[Trevor]

Jon is quite correct, silly me . Busted

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

In which case you must have a fault, that's not how it should behave and a sensor somewhere is probably playing up or not correctly calibrated. Had you had any work carried out recently and also how long have you had it? Just to give us an ideal how much of its history you know.

 

[Crispin]

VCS does limit engine until traction is regained. On a wet or gravel (aka mud roads in the UK) road, try it. The engine will stop increasing while the VCS light is blinking (i.e the wheels are spinning). it also stops doughnuts

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

VSC will apply breaks and adjust engine output to correct lateral motion, it is Stability Control, not traction control, so a donut should trigger it but driving along on a bit of mud, unless you're slipping sideways, you should only be harassed by ATRAC. That's how it works on my 100 anyway but maybe they messed it up for the 120?

 

[Gary Stockton]

You stirring, Jay Dubbya??

The ATRAC II on the 120 does the same - so if the VSC is cutting in on a muddy field going straight I suspect the yaw sensor, like what happened to me when I messed up the wotsit (spiral) switch under the steering wheel.

To reset yaw sensor, disconnect both batteries for up to an hour, or find and disconnect the yaw rate sensor in the cab:

YAWRATE SENSOR
REPLACEMENT
1. DISCONNECT BATTERY NEGATIVE TERMINAL
2. REMOVE SHIFT LEVER KNOB SUB?ASSY (See page 71?1 3)
3. REMOVE CONSOLE UPPER PANEL GARNISH NO.2 (See page 71?1 3)
4. REMOVE CONSOLE UPPER PANEL GARNISH NO.1 (See page 71?1 3)
5. REMOVE CONSOLE PANEL UPPER ASSY (See page 71?1 3)
6. REMOVE YAWRATE SENSOR
(a) Disconnect the yawrate sensor connector.
(b) Remove the 2 bolts and yawrate sensor.
7. INSTALL YAWRATE SENSOR
(a) Install the yawrate sensor with 2 bolts.
Torque: 13.3 N
m(136 kgf
cm, 10 ft
lbf)
NOTICE:
Do not install the sensor back to front.
(b) Connect the yawrate sensor connector.
8. INSTALL CONSOLE PANEL UPPER ASSY
9. INSTALL CONSOLE UPPER PANEL GARNISH NO.1
10. INSTALL CONSOLE UPPER PANEL GARNISH NO.2
11 . INSTALL SHIFT LEVER KNOB SUB?ASSY
12. PERFORM YAWRATE SENSOR ZERO POINT CALIBRATION (See page 05?730)
13. CHECK VSC SENSOR SIGNAL (See page 05?730)

Easier to disconnect the batteries for 30 minutes +, which is what I did

 

[Tim Robinson]

Hey Guys...I'm overwhelmed with the quality of your replies.

Thank you very much.

I do have road tyres on my car (Dunlops).

However, I do think something is wrong with the car. I can confirm all four wheels have traction and do not skid when doing a three point turn on a tarmac surfaced gradient. The front wheels were relatively straight when selecting D from R on the auto.

I think the Yaw Sensor is a possibility because the car does not click away when doing a three point turn on a level plateau. I shall discuss with Pantagon Toyota on Friday.

I have also decided to book myself on the Toyota Club Off road driving experience where I can take my own car. If I have an instructor with me who has driven a Landcruiser off road previously, hopefully this will confirm whether I am simply expecting too much from my road tyres or there is something wrong with the sensors.

If anything it will be good day out.

My Toyota warranty runs out in May so I am keen to resolve before then.

Once again chaps many thanks for your time so far.

Regards

Tim

 

[Gary Stockton]

Tim, seriously consider extending your factory warranty in May - good peace of mind!!

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

You stirring, Jay Dubbya??

as if

Gary I think what you reset was the steering wheel sensor, that's what the spiral cable you broke is for, just disconnecting the battery won't reset the yaw/g sensor.

Sounds like the yaw sensor is either faulty or not correctly zero point calibrated. Note that when you reset it you then have to calibrate the zero point, if you just reset it and don't calibrate, when you move the car it will flash lights at you and disable VSC, ABS etc until it has been calibrated. Calibrating it means park on a level surface, short some jumpers on the diagnostics socket and then utter strange incantations while turning the ignition on and off and simultaniously doing a dance on the brake pedal OR letting Mr Toyota do it on his computer (I made up the dance but it's something silly like that ). Toyota should be able to check the output from the yaw sensor though and see if it's sensible.

Did this only start recently?

 

[Tim Robinson]

It aint cheap extending the warranty on this type of motor particularly the Toyota Warranty.

Warranty Direct maybe the way but thats at least £375.00 per annum....but thats the price of peace of mind.

The car has been playing up for some time now but I have not been off road until a couple of weeks ago.

I have been off road again in a couple of icnhes of mud......this time it drove thro whilst skidding a little. But the funny thing is once out of the mud with traction there was no power for at least 4 -5 seconds. After which things returned to normal.

The car is not right...it doesn't inspire me with confidence.

I think this Yaw Sensor is definately worth more investigation. Hopefully Pentagon Toyota in Sheffield will come up trumps. Need to find a steep hill nearby and do a three point turn on tarmac then hopefully find a muddy field.

Will keep you posted.

Regards all

Tim

 

[Trevor]

Hi Tim,

Don't lose confidence with the truck, there are plenty of 120 owners on this forum who will happily testify to the abilities of this great piece of engineering. It certainly sounds like you have a small issue that needs to be resolved, but once fixed you will have a big smile when you can see just what it can do, actually the truck will often perform better than driver and make him look good.....well this is true in my case anyway

There really is a silver lining to this cloud.