Where are we heading?

[wobbly]

Been having a mull over this today.

I wonder where the next generation of Landcruisers suitable for us will be coming from?

The 70 Series arent that common, and the 2.4 engine seems to be consigning many to a 20 or so year lifespan.

The 90 series, like my Prado, are pretty cheap and affordable at the moment, especially the 3.0td.

The crossover d4D 90's are not so common, and mileages on them actually seem comparable to the 3.0td, seem to have a similar lifespan.

80's - even the youngest are almost 20, and whilst in the hands of enthusiasts seem indestructible, but starting to see more 'long in the tooth' ones about.

120 series - this looks to me to be the next model to be destined for our hands, prices now below £10k.

100 series - again, this looks to be the next '80', recently seen a fair few overland prepped ones appearing, again, prices around £10k.

So we seem to have a goodly supply of cars for the next few years, but will be interesting to know where we are in say, 7 or 8 years, when the current 'fixable at home' trucks are starting to disappear.

Problem is that the technology seems to leap forward very suddenly, especially electronickery.

Pete

 

[Shayne]

On a similar note i read somewhere the LR Defender is to dropped from production in the very near future .

 

[yogi]

Have to agree with you Pete, I've been driving simple easy to fix cars into the ground for the 20 years I've been driving. Thing is I've been buying 96/7 cars for the last 6 or 7 years. There is nothing newer that would suit me. The future looks a bit bleak!

 

[chadr]

Yes, very near future, production of the Defender was due to cease Dec 2013.

In answer to the original question, I personally think the way forward is pickup based overland vehicles - there will always be relatively basic utilitarian versions of these. Whereas newer Landcruisers, especially those available in the UK, seem to be heading towards the prestige market, to go alongside Range Rovers, Q7s X5s etc. with all their luxury and complexity.

Having said that, if you bought and baselined a decent 80/100, even though that will cost you a fair bit, you should have a vehicle that is good for a decade or more.

 

[Shayne]

A full on restoration project will likely be the only option available to us neanderthals 10 years from now but no doubt the gov will find some excuse to knock that on the head as well .

 

[jonnyboy54321]

What I would say Shayne is that there is a market out there for the electronickery. That, and horrific replacement parts prices will be the biggest factors. I am hearing time and time again (because I am on the edges of the trade) of cars being scrapped because of the manic cost of one component - for example, you'd rarely see an old Merc S Class being crushed until it was rotten, but now it's very regular due to say one item like an ABS pump/ecu/air suspension control unit as well as rust due to the shocking bodywork quality. If all these parts were plug and play then the secondhand parts market would be a lot healthier than it is - but of course lots of these things won't work car to car, or need to be programed/coded etc and this is where it falls down for the "enthusiast".
In recent times (before I saw the light?), I've had a few Discovery 2's. These are a fair bit more complex than the older school D1, and similarly so is say a p38 Range Rover compared to it's older brother. Over at the Discovery 2 club we had a lot of contact with Blackbox Systems who market and distribute the Nanocom system of diagnostic machine. We had group buys going and the likes, and a web network of support with their chap Colin (a diamond), and a uk map of members with a machine, lots and lots of us had/have them. I actually reset someone's three amigo problem (those who know LR's will smile at that) just a couple of weeks ago with my machine, which I have since sold on.
That little machine is a godsend. Same as a tech2 tool is to a Saab enthusiast, we have a similar network over at the Saab club but no support for the machines as they are a tad "grey" if you know what I mean.
What I foresee we will need over here is a diag. tool that does more than just read codes. Few of us can afford the £100+ an hour labour to go to a main dealer (with their varying degrees of service/knowledge), and I don't seem to think that there is a good network of specialists like those in LR circles. Undoubtedly down to the numbers of LC's about compared to their peers. Ironic really bearing in mind the LC's would have the capability to outlive all others easily.......
So I guess when it comes to the "next" breed of LC's that filter down to enthusiast level, the owners will need a diag. tool as a matter of course, or deep pockets indeed.....
I might have a word with Colin at BBS but I suspect there just won't be the number of cars out there to support the necessary development work for such a machine.

 

[sae70]

Thinking about all that electrickery and the like, someone I now rescently connected the battery up to his 2001 S-class merc reverse polarity and the whole thing became toast. Despite massive effort to bring it back to life there was just to much wrong to bring it back to life, so it was taken away on a low loader last week heading for Poland!!!!!

 

[Andrew Brierley]

LC 78/79 are still being manufactured, and are available in many parts of the world, so why not the UK? TGS in Gibraltar are supplying them to aid agencies world-wide, but won't sell to the general public. What a crazy world we live in....

 

[wobbly]

Problem with those are that they workhorses at luxury car money!

 

[Andrew T]

I have been off-roading a 120 for about three years, and had no significant problems.

They are great and when you get the spec book out they are not too much smaller than an 80. Certainly just as fast, but definitely more efficient on fuel.

If you want a recommendation I would have no hesitation, but I would say that off road parts for a 120 are notably more expensive than a 90 so modding gets expensive. I am probably up to 7k on mods now.

They may not be as rugged as a defender 110 out of the box, but just a few mods and they outclass modified 110s.

You have to remember the 120 was 40k new so it might be a while yet before they are really cheap.

If you search "120 twins" Andy C wrote a good trip report in the lakes where Gary and I took ours down to the woods to play.

 

[Rob]

There are plenty in nerds on the forum who will be able to homebrew code that used fly by wire throttle module if you have followed the how to guide on the forum and the soldering iron slipped, which incidentally contains a list of RS part numbers, a list of obscure torx drivers you will need and a task difficulty rating Haynes manual style from 1 to 5 soldering irons.

If there is a will there there is a way but the main problem is the risk of these vehicles value being similar to scrap value as the the local mechanic is still only employing spanner monkeys and still can't fix it. This means that when you come to sell your pride and joy it will be worth more in parts and hence will probably end up being broken and before we know it there well be almost no LCs of that vintage left.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[frank rabbets]

My three year old golf would not idle and the throttle did not work this a.m. I've had it from new. Even though I've done ever aspect of car work, even reboreing since 1960, I now have to take it to the garage. So it's brought home to me what the future holds even for Landcruisers. I suspect there will be a time when there won't be any of our style enthusiasts.

I wonder what the VW garage will think when one of their new cars comes in on the end of a rope being towed by an 18 year old car?

BAD MOOD
Frank

 

[yogi]

Not wanting to worsen your mood Frank, but they'll just smile when they think of the couple hundred quid they'll make for the incredible skill of plugging it into a computer.

This is how the car industry maximises its profits in my opinion, by attempting to force you to main dealer it!

Sorry! But at least you can tell them how crap it is!!

 

[frank rabbets]

This is going to be interesting Yogi. I expect they will say it's out of warranty but I'm not going to claim under warranty. Their contract with me lasts 6 years so that will be my point. A car should last for 6 years so I'm not going to pay. No throttle = no car so even if it's a simple fault that is irrelevant.

I have a solicitor friend I used to go to school with so I'll phone him to look up any precedents.


Frank

 

[wobbly]

Rob,

The point you mande about cars being worth more for parts is what got me thinking about this in the first place -the LJ78 for sale with a donor car thrown in.

I think we are on that road now with 70s & increasingly 90s, as the value of the car drops, so the decision is made to part it out.

The high value of the 80 series is imo what is keeping many going, its still worth spending the cash to keep them on the road, but I know of at least two J reg imports that need money spending, but wont be worth it, so are sitting waiting for either a £££ rich buyer, or to become donors.

Give it another couple of years and these will be enthusiasts cars, whereas at the moment they are still a mainstream choice for horsey types, heavy towing etc.

Ironically, I think in the medium term there may be a bonus for us enthusiasts, especially if there are a few quid in a jar somewhere, cos I think there may be an influx of older uneconomical to maintain vehicles appearing at reasonable prices as owners sell them in order to get rid of the cost.

At this precise moment, I reckon older LC's are at bargain prices - mid-late 90s 90s (eh?) at between £3k and £5k - buying wisely will produce a car good for another few years, longer if they live an unstressed life.

£5k for an 80 series that you hop in and drive round the world with simple preparation.

I can see the 100 Series & 120 being far more common on here in, say, 3 years, as their values drop.

Pete

 

[Shayne]

Heres a glimpse of the future - 2 days a go i attempted to contact Toyota UK via their website but once i entered the year of my truck the email refused to send . So i got on the phone regarding my front lower ball joints and was directed to my nearest local Toyota . 2 minutes on the phone them had me redirected , to a receptionists who explained all the more technically minded staff were currently busy so she took my details with a promise to call me back ...... 2 days ago !

I have already given serious thought to buying a second truck identical to my own and storing it in a barn so replacement parts will always be available but it seems an unnecessary lump of money to spend , or does it ?

 

[wobbly]

Frank

It depends on the scale of the problem - if its a catastrophic fault then the dealer/manufacturer wont be able to hide behind the 3 year warranty, the waranty is given in addition to your statutory rights, its not a replacement for them, so a car should be catastrophy free at the moment, I believe 5 years is the relevant period, maybe 6.

Minor parts failures are far more subjective, whilst the car wont go that isnt a catastrophic failure of the whole car if its down to the failure of a simple component. I doubt there will be a general precedent outside of the warranty period, but it does depend on the problem, and them diagnosing it may cost you money. If you google honest john there may be some help for you, or even better you can find this is a common fault on that type of vehicle.

Let us know how you get on!

Pete

 

[frank rabbets]

Pete

I agree with all you say. It gets more and more grey the smaller the problem is because if it's a small fix then it's easier to pay up rather than take legal action and test the law.

I've been down the DIY and research route and failed. Having said that this problem also happened 1 week ago. I spoke to the dealer who said it may be the ASV valve. I took this out and cleaned it and bingo it cured it until this a.m. When my wife got in and started it, it had lumpy idle and no throttle response and kept stalling. Then I opened the bonnet and got her to start it and just as it was about to stall I hit the ASV with the ice scraper and it revved up. The ASV valve is a large diameter butterfly valve in the air intake pipe. It gets carboned up but in addition there is an electrical box on the side which I have not opened. I could just risk it and buy a new one but that would be an uncertain fix and costly. I'm hoping VW will be a more reliable diagnosis and fix and perhaps may be cheaper if I shout loud enough.

You have 3 things protecting you when you buy a new car :-
1. Makers warranty.
2. Statutory rights (eg Sale Of Goods Act).
3. Your contract. This is enforceable for a period of 6 years from the date of contract.

Frank

 

[stumog]

Frank
I am not 100% but i think there is a very small hole in the vw valves that get carboned up. Have a good clean up and see if you can see a tiny ~ 3mm hole in the air intake end try cleaning this until you can blow through it.

I have been thinking of getting my wife a newer car then the prado she drives at the moment but what to you buy that you can work on?
went to look at a 07 civic the other day and couldnt stand the star ship like dash at all be a nightmare to work on. I think a early 80 would be best for her but she will drive mine let alone one for herself. plus they a crap round town on fuel.

stu.

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Stu

The car is at VW at the moment. I cleaned a load of carbon off the valve but did not notice a hole in the butterfly. I did not look to see if there was a hole in the body.

Have you thought of a Honda Jazz? One of my friends bought an old second hand one and after 7 years he had some clutch slip so booked it into the garage with no complaints. Then they said off their own bat that they were beginning to have clutch problems on older cars and would change it free. No charge whatsoever and he didn't even complain.

Frank