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- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5,520
Sorry to have caused heat chaps. I hate Putin and his army with the biggest H you've ever seen and they ought to be destroyed. It was never my point that I was on Russias side.
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Would you surrender?
- Thread starter frank rabbets
- Start date
chadr
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but saying that "Ukraine didn't exist till 1991" is just simply ignoring the state of the world before the existence of the USSR; Kyiv was a thriving city, a 1000 years before Moscow.
You've made the point that Russia haven't attacked a NATO country, a point that I also made early in this thread - so yes, we're not "at war" so to speak (thank god!). However that doesn't mean we can't, or shouldn't, support the side we believe is being wronged. In this case and IMO, that is undoubtably the Ukrainians.
Obviously YMMV on this subject.
You've made the point that Russia haven't attacked a NATO country, a point that I also made early in this thread - so yes, we're not "at war" so to speak (thank god!). However that doesn't mean we can't, or shouldn't, support the side we believe is being wronged. In this case and IMO, that is undoubtably the Ukrainians.
Obviously YMMV on this subject.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2013
- Messages
- 16,278
You have nothing to apologize for Frank , its sharing points of view is all , debate to promote thought and kill time especially for those of us who don't actually see anyone for an idle chat about current events from one month to the next .
Why vote for war when theres an alternative option ? will life as i know it really change much under a new regime ? Its a pacifist view and perhaps the most common one held by those who witnessed and survived the horrors of of WW2 .
Hopeless wanderer raises some interesting points and its all just food for thought . In answer to him i will say you do not "take back" millions of people by force , the very idea was doomed to be universally condemned from the outset . The world has evolved inasmuch as nuclear weapons demand guile rather than force .
Money is the real power and with it you can place whomever you choose onto any "leaders" seat . Puppet on a throne so as to "democratically" achieve your nefarious ends .Its the modern way .
As for locking the thread , what kind of world do we live in when one person attacking another with unwarranted aggression can shut down what is otherwise an amiable conversation between many that has gone on for months never slipping below a little tit for tat banter .
Why vote for war when theres an alternative option ? will life as i know it really change much under a new regime ? Its a pacifist view and perhaps the most common one held by those who witnessed and survived the horrors of of WW2 .
Hopeless wanderer raises some interesting points and its all just food for thought . In answer to him i will say you do not "take back" millions of people by force , the very idea was doomed to be universally condemned from the outset . The world has evolved inasmuch as nuclear weapons demand guile rather than force .
Money is the real power and with it you can place whomever you choose onto any "leaders" seat . Puppet on a throne so as to "democratically" achieve your nefarious ends .Its the modern way .
As for locking the thread , what kind of world do we live in when one person attacking another with unwarranted aggression can shut down what is otherwise an amiable conversation between many that has gone on for months never slipping below a little tit for tat banter .
Contrary to Russia this site is not run as a dictatorship, so all are free to post whatever they like as long as it abides by the rules. I am ok with non LC content, others less so, as it is good to be able to discuss certain topics in a adult way. BREXIT thread was a example of where broadly the differing views were discusses without descending into a shit show.
I do however draw the line when it becomes hard work, and I need to tidy up reported threads etc.
I'll not lock this one, as I think there are some good points being made, and whilst I may not agree with all of them, that's fine too.
I do however draw the line when it becomes hard work, and I need to tidy up reported threads etc.
I'll not lock this one, as I think there are some good points being made, and whilst I may not agree with all of them, that's fine too.
hopeless wanderer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2014
- Messages
- 863
- Country Flag
Absolutely Chadr.
I just think prolonging it into a proxy war is a folly. Sure countries have ping ponged between different custodians over the centuries.
Ukraine has been Polish/Austrian/Russian/Ottoman at no point has it ever had anything to do with us bar our little jaunt in the Crimea.
The idea of self determination is a decent enough ideal that's not the issue. It's hypocrisy in which those interventions are applied that galls me more than anything.
"We" face just about the most difficult economic times since the great depression and i just don't favour squandering our much needed financial resources on something that is not our business at all.
Bismark said the Balkans weren't worth the life of a single Pomeranian grenadier, that's exactly how i feel about Ukraine it's not worth a penny of our much needed money or the life of a single soldier.
Our armaments should be entirely defensive and not sold or exported to anyone, because as someone said they only end up being pointed at us down the road.
This is a mainland Europe issue and if the Germans, Poles or French are feeling a bit shaky about an advance on Berlin, Paris or Warsaw, let them sort it out. They're big boys and Uncle Sam is in there with them this time instead of showing up late to the party.
We have squandered countless billions and numerous lives trying unseat despots we ourselves installed, or opposing isms that are never going to stand the test of time.
We constantly back the bad guys when it suits us, we should sit this one out.
Everyone wants an I phone, some Levis and a duck-billed girlfriend even if they don't, now they'll all eventually want one or get one anyway.
Putin's greatest mistake was he didn't knock a couple of domes off St Basil's and leave a couple of Ukrainian passports in the rubble
I just think prolonging it into a proxy war is a folly. Sure countries have ping ponged between different custodians over the centuries.
Ukraine has been Polish/Austrian/Russian/Ottoman at no point has it ever had anything to do with us bar our little jaunt in the Crimea.
The idea of self determination is a decent enough ideal that's not the issue. It's hypocrisy in which those interventions are applied that galls me more than anything.
"We" face just about the most difficult economic times since the great depression and i just don't favour squandering our much needed financial resources on something that is not our business at all.
Bismark said the Balkans weren't worth the life of a single Pomeranian grenadier, that's exactly how i feel about Ukraine it's not worth a penny of our much needed money or the life of a single soldier.
Our armaments should be entirely defensive and not sold or exported to anyone, because as someone said they only end up being pointed at us down the road.
This is a mainland Europe issue and if the Germans, Poles or French are feeling a bit shaky about an advance on Berlin, Paris or Warsaw, let them sort it out. They're big boys and Uncle Sam is in there with them this time instead of showing up late to the party.
We have squandered countless billions and numerous lives trying unseat despots we ourselves installed, or opposing isms that are never going to stand the test of time.
We constantly back the bad guys when it suits us, we should sit this one out.
Everyone wants an I phone, some Levis and a duck-billed girlfriend even if they don't, now they'll all eventually want one or get one anyway.
Putin's greatest mistake was he didn't knock a couple of domes off St Basil's and leave a couple of Ukrainian passports in the rubble
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