Leaking Brake Fluid -- What is This Part?

[stuzbot]

OK, chaps. Last dumb question for the day....

Or maybe not! Anyone know whether Toyota uses SAE or DIN flaring on their brake lines?

According to which particular internet rabbit hole I dive down, the answer is one of either:

* SAE is only used by British and American cars
* SAE is used by British, American and 'Asian' cars
* DIN is used by European and most other countries
* DIN is used on most 'modern' cars
* It doesn't matter, if you're making up pipes with a soft material like copper or cupro-nickel, as the flares will deform to fit anyway.

Obligatory XKCD:

 

[BobMurphy]

Errrm hang on a minute . . .

I replaced my LSV back in 2010 (seems like yesterday ). It isn't quite as simple as you might think.

Its not just a restriction in the brake line as it has THREE BRAKE PIPES attached . . .

It appears to release pressure from the rear brakes by passing it back to the ABS Modulator (I may be wrong).

Check the pipe run before you go chopping anything out. It also has a bleed nipple (well, the new ones do - the old ones look like this ):

Regarding brake flaring kits . . . I found the type you showed first to be cumbersome and of little use. I swear by the one shown here:

As you can see, I use Kunifer Cupro/Nickle pipe and put neoprene sleeving on it where it is likely to rub the chassis (or anything else).

Owning one of there trucks is a long learning curve. TIP ! don't keep a record of what you spend (as I do) !

Good luck.

Bob.

 

[BobMurphy]

Thinking about the LSV . . .

I guess my first assumption was wrong, there is probably one restrictor valve in the line operated by the arm.

Then, if the gremlins detect a wheel locking-up under braking the ABS Modulator releases brake pressure via the third pipe.

That would make more sense - but is it right ??

Bob.

 

[stuzbot]

Funnily enough, I've just been out to poke my head under there and see what the score is as regards the pipes and I'm now wavering again in favour of just biting the bullet and putting a new LSV in there to. The way the pipes are routed, it's going to be a major pain in the arse getting at them to cut and fit a T-junction and I think I'm going to sell the waggon anyway, so I just want to take the path of least resistance and get it back on the road ASAP.

 

[Jake the Peg]

I’d buy the second flaring tool, you can also use it for good results on the vehicle if you need to cut and join a pipe, ie halfway along the chassis to your new LSV.
I’d for sure look to replace your valve, adding too much fluid pressure to your back brakes could cause you to skid in poor weather conditions

 

[stuzbot]

Well, after a break from combat while waiting for the weekend monsoon season to end and my Irwin sockets to arrive, I had another go at that LSV today and after much swearing and skinning of knuckle managed to get the complete and utter total fu....

[INSERT UNENDING STREAM OF FOUL LANGUAGE, LASTING SEVERAL MINUTES]

..rd of a thing off.

Every damned nut and bolt fought me to its last thread and it took Irwin sockets, bolt splitter, hacksaw and pliers, on top of my 'normal' tools, before I finally emerged victorious, after a good couple of hours.

Has there ever, in the history of motor mechanics been such a titanic battle!

As I expected, the brake lines going into the LSV were corroded to buggery. Two of them snapped as soon as I managed to loosen the bolts on the LSV enough to move it a bit on its bracket. In fact I think the leak was coming from the pipes all the time as the LSV itself didn't seem to be leaking anywhere. In fact, if anything, it seemed completely seized.

More fun to come. New brake lines needed

Crusty goodness!

So, next task; I'll now have to get some pipe and a flaring tool and make up some new pipes before I can fit the replacement LSV. In a way, I suppose I'm lucky this thing sprung a leak so close to home, as those brake pipes were completely rotted and just waiting to disintegrate.

What with Toyota's engineers being sadists, foul weather, having to buy new tools and 'life' getting in the way, it's taken me a week to achieve this...

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

TBF these valves are a robust unit but are prone to seizing up as a ring of rust nips the valve shaft. Having taken one off an 80 and stripped it down ( very simple) and removed the ring of rust, it was perfectly serviceable. Had I known all this I could have done it easily on the truck. I've never known one to actually leak in 25 years of LC ownership and they've nearly all had one on.
I'd bet your leak is a brake pipe looking at the state of them. If it was me I'd check the LSV for being seized and use it again with new brake pipes
Makes me wonder how it passed an MOT with those in that condition. Goes to show 20+ winters worth of salt.

 

[Tractionman]

Stuz, you say it's taken a week, but when you weigh up the weather and all the other stuff, you have it beat, when some of a weaker will would have got someone in.
That says a lot in itself. Well done, youre cruisin' now.

 

[stuzbot]

If it was me I'd check the LSV for being seized and use it again with new brake pipes

I might give it the once over and see if it's serviceable. If so, then I could stick the new one I bought on eBay and try and recoup some of the cost of replacing the brake lines.

Annoyingly, I think it was the line that's hidden above the bracket, where I couldn't see it, that was leaking initially. And the fluid was then running down and around the rubber boot on the LSV lever. So, when I pulled that boot back with the LSV still on the motor, it looked like that was where the leak was coming from.

Does the piston pullout?... or push in? I've left it soaking in PlusGas to try and free it a bit. But not sure whether to try and knock the piston in or pull it out. At the mo' its pin is sitting just proud of the casing.

[I know I could compare with the new one I've got. But I've left that in the car and i'm feeling lazy. So just wondered if you could remember how you dismantled yours].

Makes me wonder how it passed an MOT with those in that condition. Goes to show 20+ winters worth of salt.

I've said before; I've got a feeling the MOT man might have been a close family friend. Given some of the stuff I've discovered since buying it, in contrast to its almost blameless MOT history.

when you weigh up the weather and all the other stuff, you have it beat

I'm not too sure about that. I've a feeling that was only Round 1.

 

[stuzbot]

BTW --perusing the workshop manual on the method for bleeding brakes with ABS [I'm nothing if not optimistic!] I see dire warnings about not letting the reservoir run dry as then the ABS has to be re-primed using a special device jealously guarded at the dealership.

Can this be true? Whatever happened to the Land Cruiser being beloved of bush mechanics everywhere, if you can't suffer a catastrophic loss of brake fluid and fix it yourself?

 

[BobMurphy]

Has there ever, in the history of motor mechanics been such a titanic battle!

Looks like a normal day under a Landcruiser to me !

Even the LSV brackets on mine were just tatty remnants.

And Toyota brake lines . . They appear to be steel, coated in green varnish, which rot from the inside. If you have any left on the truck replace them with Cupro-nickel ASAP !

Bob.

 

[stuzbot]

Looks like a normal day under a Landcruiser to me !...

Oh great. I thought I'd left all that behind when I ditched my last VW.

Even the LSV brackets on mine were just tatty remnants....

You were lucky. The brackets seem cunningly designed to prevent you from actually getting in to put a spanner on the other end of those freely spinning bolts holding the LSV on and my brackets were in fine fettle and not giving in without a fight. And, of course you can't get at the bolts holding the bracket to the chassis because the LSV is in the way. Game, set and match, Mr. Toyota.

And Toyota brake lines . . They appear to be steel, coated in green varnish, which rot from the inside. If you have any left on the truck replace them with Cupro-nickel ASAP !

Yep. It looks like quite a lot of the piping has been replaced at some stage as most of it is CuNi. From memory, I think just the bits coming off the LSV were made of plastic coated digestive biscuit.

 

[stuzbot]

@AndycruiserguyLomas --How did you go about un-seizing your LSV?

I've cleaned mine up and left the 'cup' that the piston sits in filled with PlusGas overnight, but it's still jammed solid. I even gave it a tentative squeeze in the vice but it wasn't for budging, without possibly blunting or breaking the pin in the centre. So I didn't want to push it too hard.

 

[Tractionman]

Hmmmm..

 

[stuzbot]

That kind of answers your question on my gurning thread...

How's the internals, that would concern me on brake parts ?

 

[Tractionman]

Hmmmm..

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

The 80 series one I did is a little different, the centre part ( the valve itself) is held in with a big nut, which obviously the 90 series doesn't have.

 

[stuzbot]

Hmmm... a bit of a puzzler. I'm still not entirely sure whether the piston where it is at the minute is supposed to move in further or pull out. It's such a tight fit round the edges that I can't actually tell for sure where the join is. It may even be that only the pin in the centre is supposed to move. I just can't tell from looking at it.

I suppose I could dismantle the new one I've got and see how the piston moves on that. But the rubber boot which covers the piston area is held on with a spring clip and the boot itself is a really tight fit. So I'd be wary of damaging it while trying to get it off... which would knacker my chances of selling the new LSV on, if I can get mine moving again.

I'll see how a second night's soaking in PlusGas does, now that I've cleaned it up a lot more, since the first time I tried. It's a shame I can't use a bit of heat. But the piston will doubtless have a rubber seal inside, so that rules that out.

 

[Tractionman]

TBQH, as you have a new one, why pi55 about with that old seized one, especially with brakes involved ? Is a repair kit available for these, assuming you free it off and it can be repaired ?
I know there is a cost involved which you would like to recoup by not using the new, as you MAY not keep the cruiser, and if, there is always an if, you get it all back together with the old unit, and it won't bleed/doesn't work properly, you will have to strip it all out again, or do a John Cleese in frustration, or both.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Yep, bite the bullet and fit the new one. Obviously they are different in construction to an 80 one.